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On 29/3/2018 at 1:31 AM, ronnysheltie said:

hey, don't most mobile devices simply auto-adjust the presentation size of a normal web page anymore these days?

 

Nope, I don't believe so. Specially if ppl keep coding in certain ways...

About responsiveness... latest improvements (tho there's the eternal issue : Browsers do need to adapt to that, and there's always a resistance for new stuff) in HTML and CSS make even redundant a lot of responsive work. Meaning, already the new css and html features do designs that are responsive since start. but IMO, still not there at 100%. We still need media queries and other tricks, but I can see how it can all be reduced, all that work.

 

Coffeecup !!! yep, a blast from the past. These were of the very much Serif's nature. Friendly approach and prices. How was the name back in the 90s ? Hotdog ? or sth like that, their HTML editor. Due to this thread been reviewing their products.. they have a very nice free tools section. Their free html editor has very good looking manners... I'm gonna try and review both Pinegrow and this one, this week.... 

 

 

https://www.coffeecup.com/free-editor/

 

Their desktop commercial solution ("no code" , says its slogan :) ) looks great  ,  ouch, another thing I would like to test.... freakin' curiosity.

 

https://www.coffeecup.com/designer/

 

IMO, stil a bit pricey, not that they don't deserve it, and it is still TONS better than subscription software (and is not just the top company, several are doing this, so, hats off to anyone in the line of this people and Serif ) , but if you see some great competitors' price (ie, Pinegrow 3x times cheaper, if I remember well (EDIT: not really. The ~100 bucks Pinegrow version is the one using master pages and reusable chunks... sth already included in the one and only version of Cofeecup's.. so is more of a 100 / 189$, so , not that different. ) ) ....  IMO, both editors are VERY interesting, at least from a first look. I rememeber Hotdog or however was the funny name, included free old versions in magazine CDs (another common factor with Serif) to be very well thought for everyday usage, clean code, UI and etc. That's a pro. Like with Serif, I'm amazed these companies are still alive after all this time.

 

Anyone of the older audience see a reference to the great Larry Leisure Suit game here (the illustration) ? Or some other US reference am not aware of ?

https://www.coffeecup.com/freestuff/

 

Edit # 9283923 : Truth said, a regular web designer WOULD need the Pro Pinegrow version... but what ppl tend to ask around here is just static, landing (or not) pages... P. Pro features are more about that, so i guess a lot of the niche asking for it is fine with the standard version....  "master pages" anyway are sth (extremely useful) that for example in serious front-end work is taken care of by Ruby On Rails or similar environment, at a company (in the past, any server scripting would take care of that). You'd make your calls and includes as needed, as a front-end person, and same with PHP or other language/environment. Again, a freelancer working from home (but yep as a remote worker for a company, been there for years) might not be using ROR (PHP is more common in those cases, ) and the Pro version makes a lot of sense for them (or the Design version of Coffeecup). But even in freelancing, you are often asked to do your work integrated in sth existing, some form of database, whatever the flavor. A lot of times is just a CMS, there your marvelous wysiwyg serves for very little....  Nice that Pinegrow has a Wordpress dedicated version, at 149... who knows, maybe they'd add Drupal and others, at some point... I've edited Prestashop e-commerce sites... I'd see much harder to do that entirely visually, tho. Need to deal a lot with the hosting/server stuff, database and hand coding.

 

 


AD, AP and APub.  Ryzen 9 3900X, 32 GB RAM, GTX 1650 4GB, 500GB m.2 SSD, 1TB HDD 7200rpm. Wacom Intuos 4 XL.

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3 hours ago, SrPx said:

How was the name back in the 90s ? Hotdog ? or sth like that, their HTML editor.

 

Yep, that was the one: Hotdog, from Sausage Software. :D If I remember correctly, there was nice interaction between WYSIWYG view and code view, so that the code changed if you dragged something to a new position on the page (as in WebPlus) but you could also change something in the code (e.g. text attributes) and you would instantly see the effect. WebPlus doesn’t do the latter; if you change something in code, you need to preview in a browser to see the effect.


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24 minutes ago, Alfred said:

 

Yep, that was the one: Hotdog, from Sausage Software. :D If I remember correctly, there was nice interaction between WYSIWYG view and code view, so that the code changed if you dragged something to a new position on the page (as in WebPlus) but you could also change something in the code (e.g. text attributes) and you would instantly see the effect. WebPlus doesn’t do the latter; if you change something in code, you need to preview in a browser to see the effect.

 

Then I mixed coffee cups and sausages ? oops.

 

There was also a good free editor, Webdwarf. You can't keep using outdated wysiwyg editors, as the web evolves every second. Only up to date stuff. Is not like with some other software. But these people made an editor that really needed zero coding and still worked pretty nicely. Then I believe they evolved it to Sitespinner Pro. Dunno, to add another solution, as each person has own's taste for functionality and UI. I liked this one quite in its day, but I was not fan of coding back then. They still seem to be going and active ! https://www.sitespinner.com

 

Yes, I believe DW also allowed that two directions thingy, without previewing in browser (but in the end, it only looked exactly as final in the browser, back  in the days, at least. If you check DW CC now is a totally MUCH BETTER kind of thing (u only need to check some videos...)), even in the old times (probably with some refresh hotkey, can't remember now....). I suppose Pinegrow and Coffeecup do work like this, but I need to give those a deep try and then see. 

 


AD, AP and APub.  Ryzen 9 3900X, 32 GB RAM, GTX 1650 4GB, 500GB m.2 SSD, 1TB HDD 7200rpm. Wacom Intuos 4 XL.

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I like the look of Pinegrow (but, like you, I need to give it a “deep try”). Although I’ve never used DW, I believe you’re correct about the “two directions thingy”. :)

 


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2 hours ago, Alfred said:

I like the look of Pinegrow (but, like you, I need to give it a “deep try”). Although I’ve never used DW, I believe you’re correct about the “two directions thingy”. :)

 

What was that “two directions thingy" referred to above? I have tried many web editors, including Pinegrow, and I keep returning to my ancient DW CS3. It does offer upload and download at the click of a button. Is this the “two directions thingy"? It does all I want, inclding support for PHP.

John


Windows 10, Affinity Photo 1.8,5 Designer 1.8.5 and Publisher 1.8.5 (mainly Photo), now ex-Adobe CC

CPU: AMD A6-3670. RAM: 16 GB DDR3 @ 666MHz, Graphics: 2047MB NVIDIA GeForce GT 630

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9 minutes ago, John Rostron said:

It does offer upload and download at the click of a button. Is this the “two directions thingy"?

 

No, the "two directions thingy" is changes in WYSIWYG view being reflected in code view and vice versa. In WebPlus the 'Design' view doesn't reflect any changes made in 'Source' view, so you have to preview the page in a browser to see the effect. (You also can't download/import HTML pages, but that's another story.)

 


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A term I patented today. Is just that we were talking about the capability of a change being done with drag and drop actions getting directly its output to the code window, and a change done in the code window that can be automatically seen, even if needed a forced refresh, in the preview window instead of needing to actually preview in the browser. I always used the browser for things other than a very first raw construction. As the browsers have their own rendering engine and a whole collection of particular issues. As far as I remember, very old DW (way older than CS3)  version had this menu option of "preview in browser A" , or in the others.... By the time it was IE and Netscape, talk about Jurassic times... I don't believe I have used it in the Firefox and Chrome era... or did I.


AD, AP and APub.  Ryzen 9 3900X, 32 GB RAM, GTX 1650 4GB, 500GB m.2 SSD, 1TB HDD 7200rpm. Wacom Intuos 4 XL.

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1 minute ago, Alfred said:

 

No, the "two directions thingy" is changes in WYSIWYG view being reflected in code view and vice versa

DW CS3 will do this.

John


Windows 10, Affinity Photo 1.8,5 Designer 1.8.5 and Publisher 1.8.5 (mainly Photo), now ex-Adobe CC

CPU: AMD A6-3670. RAM: 16 GB DDR3 @ 666MHz, Graphics: 2047MB NVIDIA GeForce GT 630

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3 hours ago, Designia said:

Pinegrow and CoffeeCup are interesting but they do not have the ease of use and friendly interface. Serif Webplus X5 has it.

 

WebPlus X5 is very old! The only thing in its favour is that WinSoft International created a version with improved support for other languages, most notably right-to-left languages such as Arabic, Farsi and Hebrew.


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8 minutes ago, Alfred said:

 

WebPlus X5 is very old!

This is the thread to ask for an alternative from the Serif company, maybe they will someday make a new website development software.

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1 hour ago, Designia said:

This is the thread to ask for an alternative from the Serif company, maybe they will someday make a new website development software.

 

I understood that, thanks. My point was simply that WPX5 was released about seven years ago, and that many significant improvements and new features were added in the next three versions before the product was discontinued.

 


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IMO, for one of these editors to be barely useful today, it should at least support latest XHTML standard and support at least for CSS 3. This is harder for a very old editor if was not getting at least maintenance updates. Anyway, among my tests, would like also to test latest webplus...wouldn't be fair if not.... ;)


AD, AP and APub.  Ryzen 9 3900X, 32 GB RAM, GTX 1650 4GB, 500GB m.2 SSD, 1TB HDD 7200rpm. Wacom Intuos 4 XL.

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