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faflusniak

Non-destructive RAW development (all RAW adjustments in separate sidecar file)

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Hi all,

Huge gap in Affinity Photo functionality is lack of non-destructive RAW development.
The best solution is to create sidecar file containing all adjustments made with RAW.

Now it's not possible to do some adjustments with RAW file, close Affinity and come back to work with the same RAW later starting from previous point.
In my workflow and presumably for many other photographers working with RAW covers more than 50% of total workflow.
So now I can use Affinity only in the final stages of my workflow.

I found some other requests for that functionality but without answer.

Question to development team: when do you plan to implement non-destructive RAW development in Affinity?
I hope not in 2.0 version :-)

 

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Hi faflusniak,

Welcome to Affinity Forums :)

Thank you for your feedback. There's already plans to implement some sort of non-destructive workflow/system for RAWs (it's not yet clear how it will be done - if using sidecar files, a live/non-destructible layer system or something else) but this is already being considered for a future version/update (no eta for this though).

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Thank you for quick answer.
So I am waiting eagerly for nondestructive RAW development.
Then I will be able to move majority of my post-processing work to Affinity.

Do you publish somewhere current roadmap for Affinity Photo?
I've found only topic/discussion on this forum.

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7 hours ago, faflusniak said:

Thank you for quick answer.
So I am waiting eagerly for nondestructive RAW development.
Then I will be able to move majority of my post-processing work to Affinity.

Do you publish somewhere current roadmap for Affinity Photo?
I've found only topic/discussion on this forum.

Here are some of the planned features for the 1.x cycle.
 

Best regards!


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Hello, I just want to say that I also look forward to this update.
We waste a lot of time re-developing a photo from the beginning.
Greetings.

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+1 for this

possibly a solution similar to live filters would be awesome!


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macOS High Sierra 10.13 | iOS 11 | latest Affinity Photo & Designer & Publisher Beta

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On 11/12/2018 at 11:05 AM, Miltrin said:

Hello, I just want to say that I also look forward to this update.
We waste a lot of time re-developing a photo from the beginning.
Greetings.

I'm also looking forward to this. 
For clarity sake this feature request involves two things:

  1. the ability to save the RAW edits. (maybe as a separate file, or embedded in the DNG one). 
  2. The ability to adjust the RAW edits after you developed them

The first one might be the most important one. The second one needs the first one to function in the way Photoshop has implemented this using smart objects. This works by basically referencing the original raw file + edits to they can be adjusted later on. 

Maybe in the future it would be nice to align the develop 'studio' to have the same or more features than Adobe Camera Raw so you could load up those sidecar files to have (roughly) the same edits. Honestly I think Photoshop's raw converter is much better (I'm sorry to admit) so I see no reason not to catch up and implement the same features. 

OP seems to refer to just the first feature. 

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13 hours ago, InnerPeace said:

The second one needs the first one to function in the way Photoshop has implemented this using smart objects. This works by basically referencing the original raw file + edits to they can be adjusted later on.  

This statement is not quite correct. When bringing edited RAWs into Photoshop as a Smart Object a copy of that RAW is embedded to your psd, somewhat similar to an image layer in APhoto. Just try it out - you can safely delete the input RAW file.

You may return to the RAW workspace at any time to fine tune the result, if you want you can even create independent copies /alternative developments of that RAW inside the .psd (one can use Artboards in more recent versions of PS for that), in earlier versions one had to use layer comps.

The input RAW file (along with its settings) remains where it was in your file system - but you can also export a .dng from Photoshop.

 

 

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Wow... that all adjustments done to a RAW file are simply discarded ever since may be the most surprising thing I learned about Photo.

Here is my +1


Windows 10 Pro x64 (1903). Intel Core i7-9700K @ 3.60GHz, 32 GB memory, NVidia GTX 780
Affinity Photo 1.7.1.404, Affinity Designer 1.7.1.404, Affinity Publisher 1.7.1.404

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I'm new to Affinity photo,

I now discover when I want to save a file after editing Raw I first need to use develop, then use a save mode.,

I >>>> cannot <<< save my work in develop or reload the raw file and continue editing, even if a Aphoto file is saved I never can go back to the settings I made in develop it seems.

Am I doing something wrong here? Hope not!!

If so, there must be a reason and maybe someone can explain me the 'normal' workflow,  meaning what do you do if you have to stop editing your raw file, but aren't finished with it?

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3 minutes ago, Mike711 said:

I >>>> cannot <<< save my work in develop or reload the raw file and continue editing, even if a Aphoto file is saved I never can go back to the settings I made in develop it seems.

Am I doing something wrong here? Hope not!! 

No, you do nothing wrong. This is the thing the topic is all about.

I do not use Photos RAW converter so I was not aware until yesterday, but:

Yes, it's surprising, but true. All the things you do are lost if you develop that image.


Windows 10 Pro x64 (1903). Intel Core i7-9700K @ 3.60GHz, 32 GB memory, NVidia GTX 780
Affinity Photo 1.7.1.404, Affinity Designer 1.7.1.404, Affinity Publisher 1.7.1.404

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Affinity philosophy is that "All  the things you do" are not lost as they are baked into the developed version. 

Develop is usually quite fast operation so it is supposedly done in one go. Also, if you are interrupted, it is usually no real hassle to do it again. Photo develop is quite rough operation and you are supposed to fine tune in normal mode.

While sidecar approach would give some benefits, they remain minimal as long as Affinity does not offer a cataloguing or similar solution. It is much better to have a separate RAW developer/DAM than try to use Photo RAW development in any demanding/professional work flow.

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Thank you, that's a weird philosophy from serif, in a 'we save everything' era.

The non destructive is always mentioned as a pro and it is, but as long as you don't overwrite the original it's still there and this is not an argument not to save the Raw editing settings and make it reusable while developing the file.

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1 hour ago, Fixx said:

Affinity philosophy is that "All  the things you do" are not lost as they are baked into the developed version.

You know what I mean. The exact settings done to the sliders are lost and you have a pixel layer as the result.
If you go back to the Develop Persona all sliders are reset so you have no trace how exactly you ended up with the developed version.


Windows 10 Pro x64 (1903). Intel Core i7-9700K @ 3.60GHz, 32 GB memory, NVidia GTX 780
Affinity Photo 1.7.1.404, Affinity Designer 1.7.1.404, Affinity Publisher 1.7.1.404

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On 1/6/2019 at 12:28 PM, Steps said:

You know what I mean. The exact settings done to the sliders are lost and you have a pixel layer as the result.
If you go back to the Develop Persona all sliders are reset so you have no trace how exactly you ended up with the developed version.

Which is why I use a dedicated RAW developer for this, also (and more importantly for me) because that is pixel editor independent so I can use whatever pixel editor is required or suitable and still have the option to use it in a different pixel editor at a later time without having to (re)export it from Affinity Photo in this case. Different people, different workflows etc.

But I do agree it would be nice if the Affinity Photo RAW developer could be parametric in some way e.g. by using sidecar files to store settings for future changes of the development or even for creating variants.

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6 minutes ago, Arte said:

Which is why I use a dedicated RAW developer for this, also (and more importantly for me) because that is pixel editor independent so I can use whatever pixel editor is required or suitable and still have the option to use it in a different pixel editor at a later time without having to (re)export it from Affinity Photo in this case. Different people, different workflows etc.

But I do agree it would be nice if the Affinity Photo RAW developer could be parametric in some way e.g. by using sidecar files to store settings for future changes of the development or even for creating variants.

I will stay with Canon DPP because it produces the most detailed results and also I can do cropping and rotation in a really user-friendly way there and save the result directly embedded into the CR2 file. So I never have to do that step again even if I switch one day from Photoshop to APhoto and wanting to redo a photo.


Windows 10 Pro x64 (1903). Intel Core i7-9700K @ 3.60GHz, 32 GB memory, NVidia GTX 780
Affinity Photo 1.7.1.404, Affinity Designer 1.7.1.404, Affinity Publisher 1.7.1.404

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I basically started to use Affinity for raw processing. I know that it's a Photoshop like application and not a Lightroom like application, but I found Lightroom subscription extremely expensive, especially in my country (10 dollars = 10 euros, and in addition, we have the highest VAT in Europe, it means the cheapest monthly subscription is about 14.5 dollars), while most of the free alternatives (Ratherapee, darktable, etc.) are very slow on Windows. There is one free alternative, Lightzone, which was almost good for me, but its contrast settings are too time consuming for me.

Earlier I used Canon DPP, but now I have a Panasonic compact camera, and the free version of Silkypix Studio is very slow and illogical.

I'm satisfied with Affinity Photo's raw development functionalities, I find it the third best after Lightroom and Canon DPP among the ones I tried, but I'm missing the feature to save raw file settings. I already saved some presets for noise reduction/details and also for lens correction, and I mostly change only basic settings for the whole image, so after all I can save and use a temporary basic presets if images are similar. I also use local adjustments, but those are different for each picture. However after I'm finished, I would like the possibility to save settings, because sometimes I rethink the same picture in the future, and also sometimes I have an idea when I'm processing the last picture in a series, and I would apply it for the previous ones, but in this case I should start it again...

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This is literally the last feature that is needed for my team to be able to switch to Affinity Photo. We work in a very high pressure environment, with each staff member doing their own photoshop of the rendering that they just completed. Sometimes a change needs to be made very urgently and currently, with the RAW as a filter in Photoshop, it takes moments to make the change. In the case that we do a small render, so there is a small section of the overall image that needs to change, the use of Develop from Photo is counter productive. Even saving out and loading the adjustment is a waste of time and needs to be avoided. The goal would be to have a "filter" or "Object" which holds the image embedded and can be opened to be added to.

I really hope this feature gets an ETA, as that ETA is when I move over to Affinity Photo. With the release of Publisher and the ability to switch from program to program without any "transition" I really want to move over to Affinity.

 

Any kind of response on when this might be out would be awesome!

Thank you very much for your good work, the program is exceptional and very impressive and the collaboration of the suite is fantastic.

Best Regards, Jackson

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