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Thanks or taking the time to reply v_kyr

 

Other than Affinity and the OS my (new) 2017 Mac came with, I have no other programmes installed.

 

When I now plug up my flash card and open it from Finder- File- Open, In the flash card listing it displays AFFINITI ENABLE and if I hover the pointer over that display bar it changes to Affinity Openable.. ! 

 

Sorry to be such a dunce but file managers as add-ons are outside my level of understanding at this stage, I merely used the most direct route (?) from my flash card to the new sub folder I had created  via FINDER- DOCUMENTS and creating A folder with sub folders.... as opposed to going through Affinity.. 

 

Thanks again (-:

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I assume you are running High Sierra, since that is what I would expect an actual Mac to come today preinstalled with. - However, on my system (El Capitan) the default behaviour when using an USB cardreader is, that the device is automounted and that the Apple Photos app starts/pops up and if desired let me import the images from the cardreader ...

photos_import.thumb.jpg.d070fca71c1a82c00797f127640a501a.jpg

... though you can but don't have to import via Apple Photos here. So if you switch instead over to the finder you will see the cardreader mounted (here in my case as a NO NAME device) ...

creader_finder.jpg.c1d5ac00f01abf629b6027f95f4ca6cc.jpg

... and can navigate into the DCIM folder and copy the NEF raw files from there where ever you decide to place them on your filesystems. - NOTE that for me those NEF files aren't shown up as Affinity associated/related files, instead they are listed as plain DSC_XXXX.NEF files.

 

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Hi v-kyr.   If High Sierra is the OS in a 2017 iMac, then that is what I am running.... 

 

My Flashcard adopts a D800 I.D. from my camera and contains NEF files.  I sought to avoid using Affinity or iPhoto as a means of copying from my flashcard via USB as directly (?) as possible to the folders that I had created on the Mac in the hope of avoiding automated processes that might seek to imprint themselves on my RAW data though as I suspected this has proven to be part of the operation of some, if not all PP programmes..?

 

As I typed even when viewing the contents of the flashcard there has been some measure of control / I.D. alteration (Affinity enable etc) and the Colourful "A" of Affinity seems to display sporadically over some of the NEFs when viewing them in COVER FLOW, which is a tad frustrating... hmm.

 

My hope is that this will not inhibit my ability to view my photos on another device that may not have Affinity loaded... Or that any photos which I may have subjected to Affinity PP processes will also display in the form of the end product of those PP processes... 

 

Yup all a tad complex for a selective Luddite such as I... (-:

 

Thanks for your detailed input v_kyr. 

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You can assign under OSX which of the apps that can deal with NEF raw files and should open these as default. If you perform a right click on a NEF file the finder menu, it's "Open with..." submenu shows you as the top most entry, which app is actually associated here to be the one which will get the file passed over to open as default. But that it also listes below other apps which can deal with that NEF extension (aka open them) and you can always select another one to open these. - So as said before I assume that Affinity Photo might be setup on your side as the default app to open these. You can change that to Apples Preview.app or one of the Nikon apps (NXView, Capture NX-D) if you have those installed.

However, just copying selected NEF files from inside the Finder from the cardreader over to some other folder location on your SSD/hard disk doesn't alter or change these NEF files by Affinity or whatever app might be the associated as the default app to open these. In your case it's only indicated that Affinity will be here the default app which then opens those if you perform a double click on one of those NEFs. - Further you can change that behavior and the app which should open NEF files as default app.

See for example:

☛ Affinity Designer 1.10.8 ◆ Affinity Photo 1.10.8 ◆ Affinity Publisher 1.10.8 ◆ OSX El Capitan
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Thanks for the valued input v_kyr, I am now somewhat reassured. 

 

I guess my flawed logic differs somewhat from the "normally"expected operation of PP programmes and file manipulation, in that if I want to use a specific programme to open specific data in a specific file, my expectations would be that I would open the programme of my choice as a first step, then within that programme request to open the data to be worked with... Logical..?

 

Also along the same line of thought would be that in moving and storing data within a computer using it`s native operating system, would not result in intervention by another process to add tags or alter the way that same data displays when opened using the computer`s basic operating system...?

 

My frustration is related to my obvious lack of knowledge, when seeing that the RAW data from my camera seems to be automatically branded by any PP programme, more so when I do not understand the need for such I.D. alteration, or know what effect that change in appearance might have should I wish to open my data in a programme other than the one that has to some degree modified my file..?

 

I try to keep things as simple as possible, thus other than Affinity I have avoided loading any other software to my new iMac. I have used NX2 and Adobe Elements on my PC. but have no intention of loading them on the Mac. 

 

Thanks v-kyr,  for increasing my knowledge in this area and reducing my frustration... a bit (-:

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4 hours ago, Geedee said:

I guess my flawed logic differs somewhat from the "normally"expected operation of PP programmes and file manipulation, in that if I want to use a specific programme to open specific data in a specific file, my expectations would be that I would open the programme of my choice as a first step, then within that programme request to open the data to be worked with... Logical..?

Well that's common and the usual way, you start some app and use it's "File -> Open" menu or command shortcuts, dependend on the files the app can deal with it shows you those you can select and open with it.

However there are a bunch of apps like image manipulation apps, or image converters etc. which can deal with a lot of different file formats (JPG, PNG, RAW/NEF, PDF, EPS ... etc.). Most apps detect file types due to their file extension, some apps do go further and also check a files format by extension and leading byte contents indicators.  Pretty every OS allows you setup and associate which application should be the one to open a default file extension/format here, so that you only need to double click on files with those extensions.

Quote

Also along the same line of thought would be that in moving and storing data within a computer using it`s native operating system, would not result in intervention by another process to add tags or alter the way that same data displays when opened using the computer`s basic operating system...?

That's usually the way it goes, the only thing is that an OS and some monitoring apps nowadays during these operations also do perform security checks on these files, so any involved file addition or movement (location changes etc.) will be registrated and then mostly some search indexing db refreshing, a scanning for possible included malware etc. will be performed. - So if you didn't instructed the OS to perform any other automated tasks with new added or moved files or file types etc. it doesn't alter the files here.

Quote

My frustration is related to my obvious lack of knowledge, when seeing that the RAW data from my camera seems to be automatically branded by any PP programme, more so when I do not understand the need for such I.D. alteration, or know what effect that change in appearance might have should I wish to open my data in a programme other than the one that has to some degree modified my file..?

This always depends on the used software and how it is setup to act with specific files types. So to say if some software is setup to perform background tasks like cataloging, copying images into certain directories and indexing etc. It's a matter of customizing and knowing how certain software works. - Further the original RAW camera data files shouldn't be altered by any software directly, instead the software should only add own side car and indexing files etc. independently of the original RAW files.

Quote

I try to keep things as simple as possible, thus other than Affinity I have avoided loading any other software to my new iMac. I have used NX2 and Adobe Elements on my PC. but have no intention of loading them on the Mac. 

Well that's up to you (your decision) how you want to deal with these things on your Mac computer. - Though it doesn't hurt if you have some additional apps there too which then can deal with NEF files too. Here especially Nikon's own RAW converter (CNX-D) offers to do pretty much more and give by far much better results here for D800 NEFs than APh or PSE (Adobe camera RAW) will ever do.

☛ Affinity Designer 1.10.8 ◆ Affinity Photo 1.10.8 ◆ Affinity Publisher 1.10.8 ◆ OSX El Capitan
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v_kyr many thanks for taking time to further ease my photo filing frustrations, I am somewhat more relaxed now..Even though you used the word "should" in reference to some aspects of digital data manipulation..(-:

 

I am somewhat confused at your suggestion I might find advantage by uploading my version of NX2 to my iMac as it seems to have limited functionality relative to PP in terms of selective process applications which of course Affinity has be the bucket load, not that I expect to be using other than a fraction of them anytime soon. Are you suggesting that there is some functionality within NX2 that I should make use of with my RAW files prior to opening them with Affinity for selective area processing..?

 

Sorry to ask so many questions of you... Sigh.. 

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Should means if you really want you can modify and alter everything, since it's all at long last just bits and bytes. So if you really want you can modify everything. ;)

I assume you do mean with NX2 then Nikon's ViewNX2 here, well I would use instead Nikon's Capture NX-D (CNX-D) which is superior and offers more advanced control of RAW processing and conversion here. There is no need for ViewNX2 when using CNX-D or even the more advanced but older Nikon Capture NX2 (with NIK control points).

Affinity Photo's RAW development engine doesn't offer the same RAW development accuracy than Nikon's RAW processors. Also other RAW engines like Apple's RAW engine, or Adobes, DxO etc. don't know to deal with everything very Nikon specific here (D-Lighting, Picture Control System, certain Lens specs etc.), but Nikons RAW software does. With other RAW converters it's harder and more effort to to yield similar results.

Personally I process most Nikon NEFs with CNX2 or CNX-D for converting them (either single files or batch processing, depending on if series shots or just custom selected ones) into JPGs and then for other image manipulation tasks (like applying retuching, effects etc.) I use APh or PS/PSE. - So I use Affinity Photo more as a PS replacement here but not for the initial RAW processing.

However your workflow may vary and it depends on you how to use these at all.

☛ Affinity Designer 1.10.8 ◆ Affinity Photo 1.10.8 ◆ Affinity Publisher 1.10.8 ◆ OSX El Capitan
☛ Affinity V2.3 apps ◆ MacOS Sonoma 14.2 ◆ iPad OS 17.2

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Thanks AGAIN v_kyr.. The NX2 prog is a disc that came with my D800 when new circa 4years ago... I have only used NX2 in the recent past for basic tasks, the plan being to try to advance my PP abilities with my recent purchases Mac/Affinity. As for workflow, well I guess you can see it is not actually "flowing" as yet. perhaps in the near future and with help things might improve, though I am still suffering a measure of Windows withdrawal when it comes to tasks that seemed more simply achieved than on my Mac, but then that was expected I guess.  Things like right clicking on a photo to open properties and checking EXIF which seemed to have more usable detail presented in a way that seem`d..  err .. logical  than that which I have available now...hmm. 

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48 minutes ago, Geedee said:

Things like right clicking on a photo to open properties and checking EXIF which seemed to have more usable detail presented in a way that seem`d..  err .. logical  than that which I have available now...hmm. 

Yes, that is one thing that Windows does much better than the Mac Finder. I don't know why. The Finder 'Get Info' window shows a tiny fraction of the EXIF info that the Spotlight metadata process keeps track of, & Finder windows show almost none of it, so there should be some way built into the OS to show all of it besides resorting to Terminal (the command line interface).

 

Since you are so new to the Mac, you might consider buying a book to speed up the learning process. There are many but I think none better than David Pogue's Missing Manual series. The latest one, macOS High Sierra: The Missing Manual, is about as up-to-date as you could hope for -- it was released February 10th! It covers everything a newbie needs to know, & even has a Windows-to-Mac 'dictionary' in the Appendixes. The Missing Manual series is so well regarded that the High Sierra edition is already #6 at Amazon US in the Books > Textbooks > Computer Science > Operating Systems category -- not bad for a book that has only been available for 2 weeks.

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Just to add alternatives. There are apps that can augment or act as replacements to finder such as PathFinder, Commander One and TotalFinder.

 

PathFinder and TotalFinder are probably the standout ones, but TotalFinder is fiddly to install for a novice because you have to disable SIP (System Integrity Protection) so that rules that one out for now, PathFinder is probably the most feature rich.

 

I forgot about Double Commander which is Open Source and free.

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Thanks for jumping in guys, the book is ordered RC-R. Hope it is along the lines of Mac for dummies....(-:

 

First defence while there may be apps that operate differently to FINDER I really am trying to keep my Mac simple and as yet am only just past the stage of switching it on....(-:

 

I might have expected Affiniti to be able to display EXIF data in a similar usable format to that available in Windows.... Though even in Windows it seems EXIF has altered in recent times in that it seems the SUBJECT DISTANCE field no longer gives a read out. My very basic expectation of a PP programme is that it would provide a simple means of displaying EXIF for any and all images...hmm.

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Affinity Photo can display EXIF data for individual open files: On the View > Studio submenu, tick EXIF to display the EXIF Studio panel. It opens to the "Summary" view, but if you click on that you can change it to "All."

 

Do that & you will see that there is much more metadata in typical photo files than just the "exif" flavor. Depending on the source & filetype you are likely to see prefixes like dc, exif, tiff, xmp, or maybe even photoshop or iptc. These are all metadata standards developed for different needs. They overlap somewhat & in some ways are not 100% mutually compatible, so unfortunately there is really nothing simple about it. For a quick overview, try this Meta 101 web page. If you want to learn more, you can refer to this Tag Table Index.

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@Geedee Got ya, I know Preview can display a fair amount of Exif Data, I'll have to take some images with my Nikon to test out what works. 

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Depending on the image type, how much metadata the camera records, & what other software may have been used to edit it, Preview's Inspector > 'More Info' can display several different tabs, including Exif, GPS, IPTC, JFIF, TIFF, PNG, GIF, Nikon, Canon, Picture Style, Photoshop, & several others. Each shows various tag & value pairs. For example, for iPhone 5s photos, these are the tabs:

No_Name.png.3461fe44a412b6cca2983fe426e816f3.png 

It is worth noting that the GPS info can pinpoint the location of the photo very precisely (& possibly even how fast the camera was moving at the time!), which can cause privacy concerns for photos shared or uploaded, so this tab provides a "Remove Location Info" button for that purpose.

 

Some of the info in the different tabs is redundant & some of it may be displayed with an Apple-supplied 'user friendly' tag or interpreted value, so it may look different from what some other software would display. Making it more complicated still, the OS stores file related metadata like date created, modified, last opened, & added, plus file size & kind separately the file system, not in the file itself. Finder will optionally display this file related stuff in its List & Cover Flow views; in Icon & Column views Dimensions (in pixels) can optionally be displayed, which comes from the metadata embedded in the image file ... I think.

 

So ... are we having fun yet? O.o

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Somewhat overwhelmed with your willingness to assist my slooooow learning process guys, Thanks so much.

 

RC-R, Thanks for the heads up on viewing EXIF in Affinity using the process View - Studio - and tick EXIF to display..... Which it did...(-:  Yeah, selecting ALL within Affiniti. creates an avalanche of data though importantly for my purposed SUBJECT DISTANCE was not listed...? Which is not entirely surprising given it used to be available in EXIF generated within my D800 and opened via Windows VIEWER... Though that capability disappeared a while back...?

SUBJECT DISTANCE was very useful for me as a hobby photographer when seeking Constructive Criticism (CC) on my photos from other like minded folk on a photographic forum where part of the ability for others to provide CC it was handy to be able to provide much of the EXIF data.... f stop - exposure time - ISO - exposure bias - Lens focal length - max aperture - metering mode - subject distance - flash in use or not - and  35mm focal length in use on the lens.

 

When at a time that SUBJECT DISTANCE did display in my EXIF I took an image of the moon and the EXIF listed the distance as 4294967295 meters...(-:  One of the smart guys determined that was a hexadecimal maximum at which the measurement of distance to point of focus maxed out...??? The lens in use at the time was a Tamron 150-600 @ 600mm

 

I looked at the links you provided RC-R and was interested to find that in the Photo MetaData link there was a subject Standards: Exif which listed the history of EXIF standard with dates and versions listed from Version 1 in Oct 95 through to Version 2.21 in Sept 2003 with a Description as to the changes or upgrades if you prefer, though that it only goes to 2003 as which time I suspect SUBJECT DISTANCE may have been available OR added later AND perhaps removed at some later time...Hmm..?

 

FIRSTDEFENCE , thanks for your thinking on Preview and the amount of EXIF available there though it seems to be in a somewhat redacted format..?

 

V_KYR, thanks to you too, I found Preview Inspector  to be handy for retrieving some EXIF data from JPEG files while in Affiniti which up until that point I had been unable to do though as in Preview the available data was limited and less than that of the iPhone in the example..!!

 

RC-R,  in general I tend to collect EXIF from the photos either directly from the card or the drive they are stored on before any PP has been applied using whatever programme access is provided through to retrieve the data... Formerly Windows Viewer..  As you suggest it is worth considering how much data you might wish to EXPORT when sharing images such as GPS which McAffee found out to his cost though in the EXIF box brought up in Windows via PROPERTIES on any image, there was the option to remove EXIF data from the image being viewed which could be very handy..

 

Another possible consideration dependant on the EXIF structure if an image has been subjected to PP and opened in a programme by another on a device that may not have that same PP software loaded, then it seems possible that issues could arise if something embarrassing had been cloned out, but appeared as captured in the "original" image.... oops..!

 

Thanks again guys..  BUT.. my head hurts..(-:

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Regarding subject distance, it is an optional ExifIFD tag, typically supplied by the camera. It could be a setting read from the lens or maybe the metering system. Obviously, if the camera/lens combo cannot or does not create it, it won't be present in the file.

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RC-R. I have  read the Subject Distance from numerous JPEG files in the past that were created on both my old D70s some years back and my D800 if I beam the same files EXIF up today, it is as if the Subject Distance data has been erased... Perhaps someone somewhere does not want cameras to be used as rangefinders.  

 

Given Autofocus is all about assessing distance to subject accurately I suspect that is where the data is generated..?

As for EXIF well I guess it is just software and can be controlled like any other..?

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If you are the only one who has ever had access to those JPEG files & you have not used any software that removed the Subject Distance tag, it still should be there. But that does not mean all software that displays Exif tags will display that tag -- it could just be a tag the software does not read or show to the user.

 

Please keep in mind that there may be several different tags that contribute to what the software displays, for example units of distance, scene info, metering mode, various camera/lens modes, flash mode, & so on. The raw subject distance value by itself may mean very little (like for the moon shot), so depending on the sophistication of the software & the 'sanity checks' it might perform, some tags may not be shown at all or interpreted & displayed as something different in name or value.

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Hi  R C-R Thanks for your patience re my lack of understanding... No one else has access to these files/photos, I have not gone through every photo I have stored though have spent a bit of time searching for subject distance in any of the JPEGs and found in all cases that the subject distance was blank..????  Raw Exif data has differences from that displayed when sourced from the JPEG version of the same image (my camera can be set to record both RAW and JPEG for each image captured)... It would seem the image its self determines which version of EXIF reader displays on screen... In 2001 it seems EXIF was ver 0221..  2006, ver 0221 and 2017 ver 0230 I came across this by chance while opening EXIF from my photos taken in those years.

 

When using Windows.... Logic (?) causes me to ask where is the EXIF display generated on to which the data is populated..and where is the decision taken as to that which will OR not be displayed.. So yeah, plenty of options to contemplate as to where the issue might lie... Could have been in either EXIF updates or Windows updates and why is Subject Distance not even a field in Affiniti`s method of reading EXIF/Metadata...  Seems to me that it is possible to clear the subject distance on every image anywhere through an "update" processes...Yeah getting too much like a conspiracy theorist for comfort... (-:

 

I do wonder if I am the only photographer who suffers a measure of frustration as the result of EXIF data inaccessibility...

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14 hours ago, Geedee said:

RC-R. I have  read the Subject Distance from numerous JPEG files in the past that were created on both my old D70s some years back and my D800 if I beam the same files EXIF up today, it is as if the Subject Distance data has been erased... Perhaps someone somewhere does not want cameras to be used as rangefinders.  ...

Well the Subject Distance is an entry among the Nikon maker note tags, though it's often also highly cam/lens models dependent here if an entry is written to the Exif data, since not all lenses give this information back (Nikon G and D lenses for example usually do) in a reliable manner on every cam body. Also it is software dependent (different Exif readers) if a value is determined and shown up at all, some software might only show the "Focus Distance" here or doesn't list all Nikon makernotes etc.

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ExifVersion is just another Exif tag. Like any other Exif tag, it is embedded in the file by the camera, so whatever Exif version the camera came with is what the file will be tagged with. It should not have any appreciable effect on the metadata you see displayed (none at all on the raw data). Mac or Windows, regardless of the software, it is just going to show you the tags embedded in the file unless you edit them yourself.

 

I think you might be confusing raw Exif metadata with RAW camera files -- there is nothing unusual about a RAW & JPEG file created by a camera having different Exif data, if that is what you mean. It would be unusual if there were not differences.

 

I am not sure what is going on with the missing (?) SubjectDistance tags. I don't have a camera that records them. From what @v_kyr said, this may be due to Affinity not reading or displaying maker note tags, or simply that the camera/lens combo you used for the shots you have checked so far did not write that tag to the file.

 

Regardless, the bottom line is the camera creates the tags &, unless you edit them, they are not changed. There is no conspiracy.

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Thanks guys you have been a great help in expanding my understanding and confusion in equal measures..(-:  Grabbed the camera and lens combo that I captured the moon photo of where it seems I hit the hexadecimal (?) max read out in the reporting of Subject Distance. Again I has two cards in the camera one recording JPEG and the other NEF (RAW) images... when opened in Affiniti the distance reading was  0 from both cards, JPEG and RAW of the same image....Perhaps something changed in the camera, though that would not explain the subject distance being unavailable in stored images... Yeah, I have taken up too much of your time already, I shall root around elsewhere.. THANKS.

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