Switching from Mac to Windows 10

[sduford]

Hi I just switched from a Mac to a Windows laptop and I had bought Affinity Photo on the Mac App Store last year. How can I switch to the Windows version?

[Callum]

Hi Sduford,

 

Welcome to the forums

 

Unfortunately you will need to purchase a separate licence for each operating system I'm afraid. Windows licences can be purchased from us at affinity.store or from the Windows 10 store

 

C

[sduford]

Hardly seems fair, you're not showing much respect for your existing customers.

[Alfred]

20 minutes ago, sduford said:

Hardly seems fair, you're not showing much respect for your existing customers.

 

Setting aside the question of development costs for different platforms, there’s the practical problem posed by the fact that Serif and Apple don’t share customer data. Serif has no way of knowing whether a prospective Windows customer already owns the Mac version of one of their apps.

[sduford]

7 minutes ago, Alfred said:

 

Setting aside the question of development costs for different platforms, there’s the practical problem posed by the fact that Serif and Apple don’t share customer data. Serif has no way of knowing whether a prospective Windows customer already owns the Mac version of one of their apps.

So you're telling me that Serif doesn't know who bought their software on Apple? One more reason to be glad I moved away from the Apple dictatorship. 

As for development cost, that shouldn't factor in, and for most other companies it doesn't. I was able to move most of my licenses from MacOS to Windows without any issues, including those from Adobe, Phase One (Capture One) and Anthropy (PortraitPro). 

 

In this case, Serif is basically saying "we don't care that you were one of our early supporters who enabled us to be successful enough to enter the much larger Windows market. Too bad for you, now pay up again." I think I'll pass. 

[Alfred]

9 minutes ago, sduford said:

So you're telling me that Serif doesn't know who bought their software on Apple? One more reason to be glad I moved away from the Apple dictatorship. 

 

So you’re telling me that you would welcome Apple ignoring data protection legislation and customer privacy, and that you think they should share customer data with Serif and others? Given your dim view of Apple, I don’t think you’d like it if it worked the other way around, with third parties giving Apple access to their customer data.

[R C-R]

2 minutes ago, sduford said:

So you're telling me that Serif doesn't know who bought their software on Apple? One more reason to be glad I moved away from the Apple dictatorship. 

The same is true for Windows versions of the Affinity apps bought through the Windows 10 Store, & for the same reason: all apps purchased from either of those Stores are linked to the same Apple ID or Microsoft user account those companies use for all purchases, cloud & other services, automatic updates, etc. This is true for all third parties selling their products through those stores, not just for Serif/Affinity. So as @Alfred mentioned, neither Apple nor Microsoft is going to share any user account related info with its third party sellers. It would be a very poor business practice, one likely to both anger their customers & violate increasingly stringent consumer protection laws around the world.

 

38 minutes ago, sduford said:

As for development cost, that shouldn't factor in, and for most other companies it doesn't.

Really? Do you think those other companies don't include those costs in the initial purchase price of their products & pass them on unilaterally to all their customers?

[someguy]

On 1/20/2018 at 9:42 AM, R C-R said:

The same is true for Windows versions of the Affinity apps bought through the Windows 10 Store, & for the same reason: all apps purchased from either of those Stores are linked to the same Apple ID or Microsoft user account those companies use for all purchases, cloud & other services, automatic updates, etc. This is true for all third parties selling their products through those stores, not just for Serif/Affinity. So as @Alfred mentioned, neither Apple nor Microsoft is going to share any user account related info with its third party sellers. It would be a very poor business practice, one likely to both anger their customers & violate increasingly stringent consumer protection laws around the world.

 

Really? Do you think those other companies don't include those costs in the initial purchase price of their products & pass them on unilaterally to all their customers?

@R C-R  I think your missing one really important aspect. Serif could just as easily be the manager of the product keys - which would 'fix' this entire issue. Instead of having to deal with Apple, the iTunes Store terms of service, etc ... you would just deal with Serif. You would inactivate the installation on Mac, install the software on Windows - and activate it with your key.

[pixelstuff]

This is what I was thinking before finding this thread. It would be nice to download the app on any supported platform, type in the serial number, and it works (perhaps limited to 2 active copies at a time). Then maybe offer $10 add-ons to increase the active copy for people with more than 2 devices, (iPad, etc)

However, maybe implements too many of the negative aspects of the subscription concept where you need internet access to install the software and periodic check-ins to keep it active.

[toltec]

42 minutes ago, someguy said:

@R C-R  I think your missing one really important aspect. Serif could just as easily be the manager of the product keys - which would 'fix' this entire issue. Instead of having to deal with Apple, the iTunes Store terms of service, etc ... you would just deal with Serif. You would inactivate the installation on Mac, install the software on Windows - and activate it with your key.

So how would you deal with the financial aspects?

Apple have taken a chunk of money from Serif as commission on the sale. You have had use of the software. Apple would have to refund their part of the commission, less a fair price for the time you used it. They would then have to make sure you uninstalled every version of the software, then refund Serif the difference, taking account of taxes paid. 

Once that was worked out, Serif would have to charge you the difference, less an administration fee. Unless you expect all that for nothing?

If you bought a Ford car, would you expect to take it back after one year and get a brand new Chevrolet?

And then there are the technical aspects. Mac installations are controlled and updated by the store. PC installations are controlled by you.

What a nightmare all that would be for a handful of users. It's OK maybe with Adobe because they control installations on both platforms and charge you ten times as much. They also only allow two installations, whereas Serif allow installation on any computer you own, which is far more generous than two computers.

[someguy]

11 minutes ago, toltec said:

So how would you deal with the financial aspects?

Apple have taken a chunk of money from Serif as commission on the sale. You have had use of the software. Apple would have to refund their part of the commission, less a fair price for the time you used it. They would then have to make sure you uninstalled every version of the software, then refund Serif the difference, taking account of taxes paid. 

Once that was worked out, Serif would have to charge you the difference, less an administration fee. Unless you expect all that for nothing?

If you bought a Ford car, would you expect to take it back after one year and get a brand new Chevrolet?

And then there are the technical aspects. Mac installations are controlled and updated by the store. PC installations are controlled by you.

What a nightmare all that would be for a handful of users. It's OK maybe with Adobe because they control installations on both platforms and charge you ten times as much. They also only allow two installations, whereas Serif allow installation on any computer you own, which is far more generous than two computers.

your license/key is purchased through serif. You merely receive the application from MAS. Better yet, you just sign in with your already existing serif account via your email address which is tied to your product license.

We aren't trading in serif for adobe, or ford for chevrolet, we are getting the same serif product on a different platform. Costs are clearly associated with multiple platforms - I assume the alternative would be a higher price point across the board to cover both platforms, with the option available for a user to switch from mac to windows or windows to mac.

Obviously, Serif did not take this approach. From the users perspective - this is a huge part of vendor lock in. Not from serifs part entirely, but some of it is, but from the OS vendor. Apple and windows prefer when licensing works this way, through their stores, with their terms, etc. It further pushes a user into being highly financially tied to a specific platform. The question is - is that the best stance for a software developer to take with their consumers?

Today - there isn't a lot of users switching. But maybe thats because of how licensing - like Serif's - is setup.

[toltec]

2 minutes ago, someguy said:

your license/key is purchased through serif. You merely receive the application from MAS. Better yet, you just sign in with your already existing serif account via your email address which is tied to your product license.

 

But how do you deal with the money Apple took as commission, and your use whilst on an Apple, paid to Apple? Not to mention taxes.

Bear in mind that AFAIK you don't own software these days, you just pay to use it, like rental.

If you no longer want an Apple solution, how do you prevent people doing that to get both Apple and PC solutions. Stealing basically.

And your email address solution doesn't deal with the way Apple download and update software from the store

Or do you expect a custom solution just for you?

I have both Macs and PCs and have no problems paying for two licences. I could install Affinity software on 10 Macs and 10 PCs. If I could afford them.

That is a much better solution for me than your two total computer solution. So what makes you more deserving than me?

 

[pixelstuff]

10 minutes ago, toltec said:

But how do you deal with the money Apple took as commission, and your use whilst on an Apple, paid to Apple? Not to mention taxes.

Bear in mind that AFAIK you don't own software these days, you just pay to use it, like rental.

If you no longer want an Apple solution, how do you prevent people doing that to get both Apple and PC solutions. Stealing basically.

And your email address solution doesn't deal with the way Apple download and update software from the store

Or do you expect a custom solution just for you?

I have both Macs and PCs and have no problems paying for two licences. I could install Affinity software on 10 Macs and 10 PCs. If I could afford them.

That is a much better solution for me than your two total computer solution. So what makes you more deserving than me?

 

With an email sign-in or external license number Apple wouldn't be taking a cut. It would be like publishing a free demo app which stops working after 30 days unless you signed in with a valid ID or entered a valid license number.

Of course that doesn't fix the old copies that have already been purchased in the Mac and Windows store.  But would allow existing Serif purchases and new customers going forward to get the cross platform ability.

Regarding the number of licenses I just picked a number (similar to Adobe). Maybe it could be 5 or 10 installs before buying add-ons. Does the terms of use already limit the number of installs per license?

[R C-R]

40 minutes ago, pixelstuff said:

With an email sign-in or external license number Apple wouldn't be taking a cut.

Apple does not sell software through the Mac App Store (MAS) that way. It is hard to see why they would have any interest in doing that since they would be providing promotional & download services at their own expense, plus any software sold that way would compete with the software they do get a cut from.

46 minutes ago, pixelstuff said:

Does the terms of use already limit the number of installs per license?

Apple's ToU for any app sold through the MAS allows buyers to install it on any & all Macs they own or control as long as it is not for commercial use; if it is, it is either one license per seat or one per user (but not both).

[someguy]

51 minutes ago, toltec said:

But how do you deal with the money Apple took as commission, and your use whilst on an Apple, paid to Apple? Not to mention taxes.

Bear in mind that AFAIK you don't own software these days, you just pay to use it, like rental.

If you no longer want an Apple solution, how do you prevent people doing that to get both Apple and PC solutions. Stealing basically.

And your email address solution doesn't deal with the way Apple download and update software from the store

Or do you expect a custom solution just for you?

I have both Macs and PCs and have no problems paying for two licences. I could install Affinity software on 10 Macs and 10 PCs. If I could afford them.

That is a much better solution for me than your two total computer solution. So what makes you more deserving than me?

 

as the prior commenter stated  - there would be no apple portion to refund.  Licenses/keys would be bought and managed by Serif. That's the upside. That is the benefit.

How do you prevent dual installations from one key?
Two answers: 1) you might not if Serif wanted to permit two active installs. But if they didnt   2) they would limit the key to one active installation which is totally possible even with the current setup.

A custom solution just for me?
No. A discussion about how their existing solution has been implemented along with possible alternatives is what is occurring here.

Maybe limiting personal licenses to three active installs on the same platform (windows or Mac) with the option to change platforms entirely - and to achieve this the cost for production would be shared... which honestly in the grand view of things it already is. Or, what would be the point of limiting it to a single platform as Adobe does - heck permit two or three installs on any platform. Your just using your key.

Serif seems to have segmented their product by platform. You have Desktop Mac, Desktop MS, iOS.

A simplified structuring could look like: Desktop, Mobile.

[someguy]

14 minutes ago, R C-R said:

Apple does not sell software through the Mac App Store (MAS) that way. It is hard to see why they would have any interest in doing that since they would be providing promotional & download services at their own expense, plus any software sold that way would compete with the software they do get a cut from.

Apple's ToU for any app sold through the MAS allows buyers to install it on any & all Macs they own or control as long as it is not for commercial use; if it is, it is either one license per seat or one per user (but not both).

While your point is true when reviewing the apple developer agreement - there are ways to work around that and stay within their terms. One way - dont provide a refund for platform changes. Just provide the key/license within their application or on their user account.

 

We are assuming the user is wanting to switch from mac to windows - that doesn't require a refund and a new purchase if the key is valid for both platforms. 

[Alfred]

3 minutes ago, someguy said:

Serif seems to have segmented their product by platform. You have Desktop Mac, Desktop MS, iOS.

Even setting aside the special case of the iOS apps, it’s more complicated than that. There’s Desktop for Macs from the Mac App Store, Desktop for Windows from the Microsoft Store, and Desktop for Windows from the Affinity Store. And then there are partner agreements such as the X-Rite promotion, where the Mac version of an Affinity app was provided through the Affinity Store instead of the MAS.

[R C-R]

11 minutes ago, someguy said:

While your point is true when reviewing the apple developer agreement - there are ways to work around that and stay within their terms. One way - dont provide a refund for platform changes. Just provide the key/license within their application or on their user account.

No software app bought through the MAS has a key. Instead all MAS purchases are linked to the purchaser's Apple ID, just like for iTunes Store & other Apple store purchases. For what should be obvious reasons, Apple does not share any info related to user Apple ID's with any third parties selling anything through its stores. So for any Affinity app bought through MAS, there is no product key nor any way for Serif to work around this to access Apple's user account info to know who to provide such a key to, even if there was one.

It should also be just as obvious why Apple would not be interested in anything that encourages or simplifies anything for Mac-to-Windows switchers. Perhaps not quite so obvious is Serif has explained that the development costs for each platform are different, so cross-platform licenses would be more expensive than the single-platform ones they currently offer through the various stores. Of course, they might start selling cross-platform licenses at some time in the future, but it seems unlikely they would much if any cheaper than buying the several single-platform ones.

[pixelstuff]

Another use, which I used to be an example of, was a Windows Desktop and MacBook Pro laptop.  I finally got rid of the MacBook because I had to keep booting into Windows for Windows specific software and Apple had some of the worst Windows drivers of any manufacturer.

That was 10 years ago, but at the time having cross platform apps was a nice plus and what I tried to gravitate toward. It would probably still be nice today even though my only requirement now is wanting to try out the Microsoft Store app. I'm not spending an extra $50 for the privileged though.