buy it or not buy it, is the question

[Fatih19]

Just now, Filo63 said:

"Illustrator existed for about 31" does not emphasize this ...

I use illustrator from the very first version and your statement makes me feel extremely old !!!

 

Surely it is better to say that you use AD from the first version. 

Yeah, I think it is. By the way, nice profile picture.

[Fatih19]

And we're not taking into account the capital of Adobe, the fact that Adobe is one of the first developers, and that serif doesn't pull up an "Adobe move" if you know what I'm talking about. 

[Filo63]

It's a self-portrait done with SketchBook ... I had not yet discovered Affinity! 

[Filo63]

Forgive me if I go off the subject, but no longer want to use Illustrator, which way you suggest to import .dwg or .dxf files on AD for Mac.

 

Ciao

Fabio

[ArturKh]

On 16.02.2018 at 1:52 PM, Ben said:

1 No basic tools?
2. but our policy is to only release features when they are up to a standard that we are happy with.
3. Try reading some professional reviews on that front.

 

Why I need reading professional reviews if I use the program?
For example AD does not have the arrow head line styles. I found this after buying. Someone in the forum wrote that you had a trial version and you saw what you bought. But it never entered my head to check whether this feature is in the program because any program has this simplest thing. I thought I was probably looking bad and I came in forum to find out where to search it and what I saw? People asking for the arrows since 2014. Hello? What is that standard that you are happy with? what do you polish out there? People are asking for elementary things.

 

You remind me a Blender foundation. They sit in ivory tower too, polish their program and the program is cool but it does not have only two elementary things and these make the program useless so that nobody want use it even for free. But they don't sell their product and don't hurry. They can so sit for exactly 300 more years living on sponsors' money and take their time. But you sell and perhaps want a money for this and the same time you don't give elementary things you are asked for.

 

You know, first I wanted to write in forum what tools I'd like to see, but if you make arrows for 3 years, I will not see my tools in this life.

[SrPx]

Hohohoho.

 

WOW.

 

Thank you, thank you, thank you.  I was not sure what I was here dealing with ... A real issue ? (the OP's first thing about the brush problems is a fact, but is a wip, a work in progresss. I use CSP for painting, but it lacks outstandingly (which has not stopped me to do FULL projects from start to end, there, BTW) in other areas where A. Photo DOES shine like no other piece of software apart from Photoshop. )  But now I read from you the part about Blender... hehehe.... Are you from a competitor ? Adobe?  'Cause I find no other reason. Or someone highly new to graphic software.  Blender is TOP sort of thing right now. I do all my professional renders (nicely paid) , scenes, texturing, etc, with it. Even intro animations !. The "basic" things lacking in one program...give me a break.... there are sooo many  "basic" functions a blenderhead would detect in Max or Maya... Of course, those apps are in several aspects more powerful (but these days the gap is closing dangerously, at least in good hands sort of comparison, ie, an Expert with Max/Maya, and an expert with Blender) . This is said by an all time maxer who has mostly used Max at companies, nicely earned my plate of food doing so for years, and worked at almost every sort of area/professional profile with it. I mean, this is coming from an experienced Blender user who actually LIKES, deeply LOVES 3DS Max, not a Blenderhead Max hater who tried Max for a week and did throw it to the trash rapidly. And I can tell you, Blender has its own weird ways, that's for sure, and is not as feature-complete as Max/Maya (I've used both btw) are, but once you get its UI philosophy, really get used to it (nah, not in a week) you actually get faster  than with a lot of 3D tools. IE, Cinema is about the easiest tool to learn in 3D. Yet I believe Blender is functionally faster. I was very fond of Truespace, which is the extreme case of my point. All with widgets, icons, very self explanatory, etc. Well, EONS away is Blender functionality, stability, and professional workflows (today). ANY pro, with any software tool, be it 2D or 3D, should be way more worried in fast workflows, deep functionality than in learning curves. Gotta go for the long term plan. Not the hard first weeks (or months/years if one is not a professional. DAYS if a really skilled pro. )

 

And again and again, over and over, like that greek's mythology character, Sisyphus, people keep leaving aside the HUGE main aspect to consider. This suite is a relatively very young work in progress, is EXTREMELY cheap, gives a ton of free updates until next major version, it allows to own a copy of the software, does not force you to stay connected to internet, and is not a renting for 50 or 60 bucks EVERY MONTH FOR EVER, has some cleverer approaches to some problems than Adobe has (not saying it is globally superior to Adobe's, it is not) . Do you prefer the other thing?? Wow, to each his/her own, go ahead, then, "cloud" yourself. Me I'd rather have some issues here and there, any pro can overcome those with ease, workarounds, or when not possible (ie, the brush issues) use a combo of software instead of expecting a package to do even coffee for you. I even work in a per project basis : Some is all CSP (like several of my latest illustrations and comics projects), others are Krita's (a pair of them of large complexity, very recently , too) . Others are 100% AD (well, lately, all vectorial... maybe say a 2% Inkscape, as there are two things that this package does great for me)

 

I agree there are issues with the brushes (yet though, here's the misconception of some, Affinity Photo  is not a painting software! Its focus is in image manipulation. Today these packages need a solid basic brush system, tho), and we artists are a freaking PITA, very picky, (but the brush lag and other issues are important, I know they'll fix that, sooner or later) so am using the others, CSP and Krita for that specific task, but generally my image editing projects, and even the illustration based ones need so, so much more than just painting... even in that task, you need basic (and these are really crucial, not stuff like not having arrow heads which you can build in a ton other ways ) tools that very often are not present in those painters. CMYK workflows, really professional PDF export, color managing in a pro level, even lasso tools or a proper text tool... not there in several of those apps, or a sad implementation of it that would terribly damage your workflow. Still, I could do ALL my work with CSP, or even with Krita. But would be playing against my own benefit not to use AD and AP for what they are best (APhoto is an amazing general image editing and graphic production software, AD is... all what I wished for a reasonable cost for vectorial. I replace all what I did at companies with illustrator, without any serious issue. )

 

I would show you what I've done and am doing with the software from the guys you think are on their "ivory tower" (btw, is not just sponsors, is the community who believe in the tool, and help each other. They can do stuff, full movies, new features, the site, etc, thanks to a ton of community donations, is not only some sponsors....and a lot of code has be done without anyone being paid) , the Blender Foundation... but I kindda enjoy being anonymous in places where I share sincere opinions, keep it apart from my pro work, (that's a personal decision, others do it the opposite, and I respect that ) you probably wouldn't be able to think Blender is not professional. Clients tend to be amazed, I'm not making this up... And well, I'm just a regular pro in blender, there's a ton of longer trained pros out there that have zero to envy any CG pro in Max or Maya. 

 

Same applies to AP and AD. The tool offers sth is NOT out there in any other solution, no in such a global way (Xara's raster solution just does not cut it, despite being a nice tool (very good learning curve, too), Corel Draw suite is many times more expensive, is slowly getting into subscription mode, or one could fear that with the "new" option, and the raster tools you can get from the company one way or the other, again, pretty cool, but paintshop pro or photopaint just neither cut it as globally and complete as A.Photo is. Do your research if you don't believe me, I did it and constantly try new versions in many packages....). Corel Painter is very nice for illustration, but...hmmmm.... I need more in the image editing area (features present in AP, not in Painter) , and for what Painter does, I can even deal with Krita's cons, or have a Rebelle 2, or PaintStorm (ouch, NO text tool!!)...or not really as those are amazing to imitate traditonal painting effects but you really need kick ass hardware for big canvases (and imposible to work with specially large canvases for sofware -not just hardware- limits.) . But I mean, there's such TON of free and cheap (sai, opencanvas, Pixia, fire Alpaca, etc, etc. Used 'em all... and I'm here.  ) painting software that Painter is getting its recommended purchase harder to say.. for a cheaper price, it'd reign, tho... or almost (ie, some of the new ones mimic traditional painting better!)...  While, in the general image editing field that AP totally covers.... funnily way harder to find really good tools in that area, for professional work.   I'm ready to deal with certain obstacles for that. Those who don't, might prefer to rent a cloud, again, personal choice here. I know this is VERY personal. But I rather have a GREAT , complete image editing program where I can paint, with a solid fully working basic brush system, than a great app painting very nicely but lacking every thing else. I'm one of those able to mimic traditional painting with just a round brush handling cleverly the brush settings. So, I need more the global image editing features than fancy brushes (meaning: I prefer improvements in a solid brush system, as anyway, custom brushes, importing third party ones, etc, indeed build over that !). A global editing package is more value, way more, IMO.  besides, you already have all those great free painters, or dirty cheap ones.

 

[SrPx]

On 16/2/2018 at 3:48 PM, Filo63 said:

"Illustrator existed for about 31" does not emphasize this ...

I use illustrator from the very first version and your statement makes me feel extremely old !!!

 

Surely it is better to say that you use AD from the first version. 

 

I "win" (ouch). I used *Aldus* Freehand version 1.0, and loved it since then. Illustrator came way later...And indeed, before have had  tons of fun at school or high school (can't remember, dinosaurs where alive yet) using Deluxe Paint I and II, and the glorious Autodesk Animator  (that amazing screenshot makes me nostalgic) and Deluxe Paint Animation  (long story, but many years later, made an anim for a friend's college final project, at his house with his creepy old 386).

 

I guess I could say I'm a graphic artist (as hobbyist, since '95 as pro) since 1985, then... and comic artist and painter since...around 39 years....haha. (as kid i used to ruin a lot of paper, but lets not count at least all of those first years)

[Alfred]

37 minutes ago, SrPx said:

Affinity Photo  is not a painting software!

 

Er ... try telling that to artists like @Andych56 or @TonyJ.

 

[Fatih19]

4 minutes ago, Alfred said:

 

Er ... try telling that to artists like @Andych56 or @TonyJ.

 

Their painting look so realistic and good. And they use Affinity photo to make them. 

[SrPx]

40 minutes ago, Alfred said:

 

Er ... try telling that to artists like @Andych56 or @TonyJ.

 

 

Of course.... You "can" use AP for painting. but it clearly is NOT a tool made with a special main focus on painting, the UI tells you that (if you can't detect it, I could point you to specialized painting tools, specially a pair of those), not only all the features (so focused in photo manipulation, raster functions, print, CMYK, color managing, I/O, ... which IS GREAT), ...is just all the focus what clearly tells you that. Was not just wanting to emphasize only in the name or in the functionality of the previous raster tool from Serif. Indeed, a mainly painting focused app would have the brush system as a total absolute priority (not the case, but a ton of patches and improvements for it, including a very key feature like line smoothing). It is not, and I am finally fine with that, as, like I mention above, in the end due to the status of the graphics apps market, is way, *way* harder to find a complete PS replacement for image editing in a global way, fully complete, than fine good painting apps (there's even a bit of market saturation of those... until... they realize that their only way is to indeed go adding global editing features (IE, not wanting to look like PS, but getting more of its functionality!). That would mean a huge change, but a moment like that seems far, for now, and lone wolf developers -mostly the case, or very small companies, smaller than Serif- simply barely have the capability to maintain and develop a specialized task app.... I doubt very strongly a lone bedroom coder can pull out alone a PS/Aphoto killer.... ).

 

I'm very, very experienced in painting (and in comic and illustration), and contracted many times as main illustrator/concept art/2D guy, before being now a freelancer (for some years) and I can tell you it is a matter of fact that the focus seems to be global, not specialized in painting. I knew the work from these two users, as well. 

 

My statement does not come out of my own theories, tho... I've read from Mark mentioning AP is not a painting focused application (it does not mean you couldn't paint with it !    At some point indeed, I have planned (months ago) to make a full realistic illustration with AP, and upload in the gallery forum, as yet another one more sample that AP is already usable for that. But I prefer for now use other software implementations for specifically painting (but keeping an eye on most AP's new beta releases) for the reasons stated. Would be a bit excessive to use time now to dig for that thread.

Anyway, not needed to be said by one of the devs, is obviously clear. Look, I have made "master pieces" with Windows' MS Paint, in pixel art style (worked a whole year making 24/7 pixel art games (well, and low poly ones) using back then PS for pixel art, quite a hated tool for long by old skool pixel artists (quite garbage of a statement, btw, if u know the tool )) . And even above mentioned how we worked with tools like Deluxe Paint, and all what that could produce was pixel art (full screen res being 320x200 px, 256 colors, among other things...and still anyone with the skills could do breath taking landscapes and any other piece)

 

I can paint with whatever has a brush. And still make it look as an oils-like picture. But am talking here about productivity. I could -just wouldn't be clever-  use brushes with lag, or inaccuracies, due to software implementations or hardware faulty devices (I have one for historic/sentimental reasons in a shelf) . By fixing lines in several passes or other methods. I still need to produce as faster as possible, this ain't just a hobby , lag gives a lot of time eating situation, and plain accuracy issues produce that as well. So I finally decided to put in the wait (because devs are reaaaally aware of it (tons of ppl posting about it, as a lot of people thought AP was a painter, imo there lies the misconception, but in the roadmap as a general editing app, I can fully understand that one needs to take care of more core matters first) the idea of AP as one of my tools starting any fully painting project. But is clearly the best candidate for a full image editing / integration, MAIN tool for anything raster, no doubts in that. IE, even if AP had NO BRUSH at all, it is still a super recommended purchase. Even if you are not going to use the app for a while.

 

 

 

 

[ubiquity]

On 2/16/2018 at 11:54 PM, Fatih19 said:

No, you are definitely copying illustrator! Illustrator is the first who make this "draw modes persona" thingy! They also invent snapping tolerance and tilted planes first! And most importantly, i need to pay 20$ a month to use the software!

You seem not to appreciate the notion of copying.
Providing the same functionality is not the same as copying - copying would be to use the same code in the same programming language to produce the same functionality. This is a common misconception for people without an appreciation of software development. Similarly there is a common misunderstanding of the difference between patent rights and copyright. There is no "invention" involved in snapping tolerance and tilted planes - these ideas cannot be patented, which is the "right" associated with invention.

[Fatih19]

5 hours ago, ubiquity said:

You seem not to appreciate the notion of copying.
Providing the same functionality is not the same as copying - copying would be to use the same code in the same programming language to produce the same functionality. This is a common misconception for people without an appreciation of software development. Similarly there is a common misunderstanding of the difference between patent rights and copyright. There is no "invention" involved in snapping tolerance and tilted planes - these ideas cannot be patented, which is the "right" associated with invention.

Did you not read the last sentence of my comment? It's a sarcastic comment.