Locking layer contents

[ronnyb]

On 10/19/2022 at 3:18 PM, ashf said:

I don't get why Serif is against the standard behavior of other apps.
Locking any action make sense. no brainer.

I suggested they change the icon to an anchor which more accurately describes the current behavior, and add a REAL LOCKING mechanism and another column on the Layer panel, not only the current Position-"lock" implemented. It really is a no-brainer, it boggles the mind there is no way to actually LOCK an object; hopefully they address this by 2.0... 🤞

[Pšenda]

 

 

Edited January 6, 2023 by Pšenda

[FilMar]

I posted this question in the more general group but someone pointed out this tread, so I put it here also, as it seems to go in the same direction. For me it is about Affinity Designer 2 but I it should work the same way in all apps.

I work a lot with nested groups (or groups in groups) where the subgroups are mostly 'fixed' designs that needs no further modifications.

When you click on an object in a group normaly he whole group is selected.

When you click holding the ctrl-key(Win) the object itself is selected wich is great to work on that object. But if the object is part of a sub-group, it would be great if there is a way to preserve (fix) those groups so here the (sub-)group is selected in stead of the nested object.

When you lock a layer or group with the key-symbol you can't select it with the mouse,  so you can't move or change it accidently.

I just want to be able to easily select a sub-group (on the canvas) for easy changing the position or scaling or so, without to worry about changeing the contenu of that group.

In other words: I create a logo with some objects and/or text and group it. From now on, if I click on a part of that logo, the group is selected and I can move or scale the group. Great!  If I need to change something in that group I hold the ctrl-key to select the object and change that. Fine also.

The moment I put this group in another group there is, as far as I know, no way to select the group of the logo. If I click the whole (parent-)group is selected, when I hold the ctrl-key the lowest level object is selected. I would like a way to protect a (sub-)group to select the inner objects so that you only can select the group itself.

 

I hope it is somewhat clear as english is not my native language.

Many thanks in advance,

[MEB]

Hi @FilMar,
Welcome to Affinity Forums
When you need to select a group that lays inside another group, double click the group you want to select (and so on if you have more groups inside that one). Off course if you have the parent group locked then this doesn't work since you can't click/select them on canvas.

[Pšenda]

 

 

[Ted H]

Yes, I would also like to request a way to truly lock a layer/object. I did a "Select Same" on a stroke colour to get rid of unwanted objects, but was terribly surprised to see that the Select Same managed to select my locked objects (which I thought were protected from deletion by locking them.)

[carl123]

4 hours ago, Ted H said:

Yes, I would also like to request a way to truly lock a layer/object. I did a "Select Same" on a stroke colour to get rid of unwanted objects, but was terribly surprised to see that the Select Same managed to select my locked objects (which I thought were protected from deletion by locking them.)

You can temporarily hide all locked layers then do your "Select Same", then unhide your locked layers when done

i.e. Utilising Select > Select All (This will not select Locked layers)

and Layer > Hide Others

 

Windows 11, Designer 2.1

[Bartosz Borecki]

Hello

This limited locking feature is really user unfriendly and counter intuitive... I've tested this behaviour and captured screenshots to understand and show this.

In Designer 2.1 when object itself is hidden then it won't be selected with SELECT SAME option (and with SELECT HIDDEN unchecked). But when a parent layer is hidden (object is not visible but is not hidden itself) it gets selected. You can clearly see this on my example below:

 

This RESPECT PARENT is fixed and working correctly in Designer Beta 2.2 as visible below, but still selects locked object/layers:

 

There is already an option with checkbox - Select Hidden Objects.
I have a proposition to include additional option in that menu also with checkbox that would prevent selecting locked objects/layers - SELECT LOCKED OBJECT:

 

[fde101]

Just to point it out, if you have Publisher and are not using artboards you can do this for a top-level layer by moving its content to a master page and placing the master on the page that originally contained the content.

Not ideal, not practical, and not usable under all conditions, but it is something sometimes anyway.

[NoneOfYourBusiness]

Agree the current implementation is worse than useless. It makes you think the layer is protected when it is completely unprotected from accidental editing, which can  happens quite a bit if you are moving between layers. If you aren't worried about accidental editing then there is no need for a lock feature.

[Bit Disappointed]

This is one of the features that has received the most criticism and feedback throughout the life of the Affinity programs, so it makes sense for Serif to look at the functionality with new - and also different - eyes.

And not as a rushed, ill-thought-out attempt to please fix, thank you, but it could much better fit into a larger usability improvement of the entire layers panel, of which there are also some functional shortcomings that could be added. And a horrible, horrible visual clutter that needs to be eradicated or at the very least configured to be invisible.

A pretty solid group of user stories for a single release. Perhaps with a few improvements to follow in the next release, but with the architecture and concept put in place in the first release.

[debraspicher]

Serif understimates the user's ability to do something unintentional, unlikely or self-destructive far too often. Give us a real lock. Put the developer mindset in a box behind Ash's desk only to be left out by Patrick to roam when it knows how to respect best practices instead of forcing its version of logic on the user... hire a usability expert who is passionate only for the user and let them go in and correct.

*(Why would you not want to help the user?)

[Bit Disappointed]

36 minutes ago, debraspicher said:

Serif understimates the user's ability to do something unintentional, unlikely or self-destructive far too often. Give us a real lock. Put the developer mindset in a box behind Ash's desk only to be left out by Patrick to roam when it knows how to respect best practices instead of forcing its version of logic on the user... hire a usability expert who is passionate only for the user and let them go in and correct.

*(Why would you not want to help the user?)

#5: Error prevention

Good error messages are important, but the best designs carefully prevent problems from occurring in the first place. Either eliminate error-prone conditions, or check for them and present users with a confirmation option before they commit to the action.

10 Usability Heuristics for User Interface Design

Originally from 1994

[Affinityconfusesme]

+1 for real lock.

[ronnyb]

I started offering fruits and flowers and chants to the gods for real a Lock feature, hopefully they grant my wish any day now…   

[Albo]

I'm wondering why use the lock at all if it doesn't lock.

This is really simple for UI. Lock means lock.
Maybe I am missing something I don't know about ?

This is, for me, the only long lasting  issue that doesn't seem to be solved or solvable.

 

[walt.farrell]

11 minutes ago, Albo said:

I'm wondering why use the lock at all if it doesn't lock.

It locks some functions. But not others.

[Old Bruce]

There are a few (very few) situations where the current Lock behaviour* would be useful. But a far far better use of locking a layer would be to not allow me to change anything about it. 

 

* Locking the location only.

[Bit Disappointed]

When a company like Serif deliberately provides customers with such unconventional (and unpopular) functionality for years, it would only be good practice to offer a traditional one via global preferences or in layer panel preferences. Not per document though.

I would venture to say that I would strongly recommend that the traditional method is the default, and I can't imagine customers rush to switch to the untraditional one. But then Serif's advocates could sit in Nottingham and repeat in whispers "We haven't removed our method. We have not removed our method." in a rocking chair.

[loukash]

4 hours ago, Old Bruce said:

There are a few (very few) situations where the current Lock behaviour* would be useful.

After learning how to actually use the Affinity lock, there are only very, very few situations where I would want to have the full-on lock à la Adobe.
I wouldn't mind to have it as an option every now and then, but I don't want to miss the current implementation by any means!
See also my earlier post in this thread: 

 

[Pšenda]

19 hours ago, loukash said:

but I don't want to miss the current implementation by any means!

You're probably using documents with a very simple layer structure, because if you were to use nesting, you'd quickly find that the current implementation of the "lock" as protection against selection from the canvas doesn't work at all. It is enough to encapsulate the locked layer with the unlocked one, and the whole "protection" against selection no longer works at all.

 

19 hours ago, loukash said:

See also my earlier post in this thread: 

If you mean a completely inappropriate implementation in some competing product, where to select a layer it is necessary to unlock it (a really clever solution), then this is not a reason for the current completely inappropriate way of "not locking" the content of layers, which is for selecting layers in the Layers panel completely irrelevant context - just enable selection in the Layers Panel at all times.

[chessboard]

On 12/30/2023 at 8:48 PM, walt.farrell said:

It locks some functions. But not others.

It's a bit like locking the door with locks and chains and leaving the window next to it right open. Now you can't get into the house throught the door anymore - never! The window, ...um, well... 🙃

[Pšenda]

On 12/30/2023 at 8:54 PM, Old Bruce said:

* Locking the location only.

But the layer/object can be rotated/flipped/aligned, so its position/location can be changed.
In my opinion, the current function of the "lock" is more correctly described by the term "untouchable", i.e. the layer/object cannot be selected from the canvas (but unfortunately it still works due to faulty implementation).

Edited January 4 by Pšenda