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Locking layer contents


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1 hour ago, MEB said:

I've suggested the user to add his voice to this thread myself yesterday on this post.

I noticed - thank you.
In this thread, I try to gather links to threads where the issue of locking content of layers is discussed.

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@MEB

You invited me to add my voice to this posting and explain my request for a "full lock" for layers:

In Designer and Publisher we work with objects, parts, components, whatever you want to call them, which we place and arrange on a "sheet".
Usually thoses Elements (each of them is a layer) do not cover the whole "canvas"/sheet... but just a part of it.

Because of that I do understand, that you see a certain "risk" of selecting an object (= layer) by mistake during "canvas-interaction".
(Although I think in complex projects with many groups and layers, it may be easier to find and select
the desired layer/group in the Layer panel than trying to click the right object on the canvas..esp. if they overlap)


BUT:
Photo-Editing is not (or just very very little) object-based work.
In Photo-Editing we ususally work with layers which cover the whole canvas = very little to no risk of selecting a layer by mistake.
In Fact: in most situations you have to use the Layer Panel to select a layer since its covered by other layers and therefore can not be selected directly by canvas-interaction.


But even without this explanation, I think a complete, full layer-protection against any manipulation is a useful and missing feature - Please add it to all Affinity Apps.
It does not hurt - but may help.

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  • 1 month later...

 

Affinity Store (MSI/EXE): Affinity Suite (ADe, APh, APu) 2.4.0.2301
Dell OptiPlex 7060, i5-8500 3.00 GHz, 16 GB, Intel UHD Graphics 630, Dell P2417H 1920 x 1080, Windows 11 Pro, Version 23H2, Build 22631.3155.
Dell Latitude E5570, i5-6440HQ 2.60 GHz, 8 GB, Intel HD Graphics 530, 1920 x 1080, Windows 11 Pro, Version 23H2, Build 22631.3155.
Intel NUC5PGYH, Pentium N3700 2.40 GHz, 8 GB, Intel HD Graphics, EIZO EV2456 1920 x 1200, Windows 10 Pro, Version 21H1, Build 19043.2130.

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  • 3 months later...

Hi, is this issue still being considered?

I find it dangerous that a locked layer can still be modified. And as shown by all the forum posts over the years, it goes against the principle of least surprise. A lock in almost any other software implies that the layer is read-only, with a partial lock requiring further and explicit steps. Despite the argument that layers can only be selected intentionally, it is easy to select the wrong layer by accident. It has happened before to me, it will happen to others.

I'm loving the Affinity software suite and have recommended it to others. However, having such grief knowing that it could have otherwise be avoided and reading that it is "by design" makes me wonder which other surprising decisions might be lurking around. Please, no bad surprises.

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Affinity Store (MSI/EXE): Affinity Suite (ADe, APh, APu) 2.4.0.2301
Dell OptiPlex 7060, i5-8500 3.00 GHz, 16 GB, Intel UHD Graphics 630, Dell P2417H 1920 x 1080, Windows 11 Pro, Version 23H2, Build 22631.3155.
Dell Latitude E5570, i5-6440HQ 2.60 GHz, 8 GB, Intel HD Graphics 530, 1920 x 1080, Windows 11 Pro, Version 23H2, Build 22631.3155.
Intel NUC5PGYH, Pentium N3700 2.40 GHz, 8 GB, Intel HD Graphics, EIZO EV2456 1920 x 1200, Windows 10 Pro, Version 21H1, Build 19043.2130.

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Affinity Store (MSI/EXE): Affinity Suite (ADe, APh, APu) 2.4.0.2301
Dell OptiPlex 7060, i5-8500 3.00 GHz, 16 GB, Intel UHD Graphics 630, Dell P2417H 1920 x 1080, Windows 11 Pro, Version 23H2, Build 22631.3155.
Dell Latitude E5570, i5-6440HQ 2.60 GHz, 8 GB, Intel HD Graphics 530, 1920 x 1080, Windows 11 Pro, Version 23H2, Build 22631.3155.
Intel NUC5PGYH, Pentium N3700 2.40 GHz, 8 GB, Intel HD Graphics, EIZO EV2456 1920 x 1200, Windows 10 Pro, Version 21H1, Build 19043.2130.

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Affinity Store (MSI/EXE): Affinity Suite (ADe, APh, APu) 2.4.0.2301
Dell OptiPlex 7060, i5-8500 3.00 GHz, 16 GB, Intel UHD Graphics 630, Dell P2417H 1920 x 1080, Windows 11 Pro, Version 23H2, Build 22631.3155.
Dell Latitude E5570, i5-6440HQ 2.60 GHz, 8 GB, Intel HD Graphics 530, 1920 x 1080, Windows 11 Pro, Version 23H2, Build 22631.3155.
Intel NUC5PGYH, Pentium N3700 2.40 GHz, 8 GB, Intel HD Graphics, EIZO EV2456 1920 x 1200, Windows 10 Pro, Version 21H1, Build 19043.2130.

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Affinity Store (MSI/EXE): Affinity Suite (ADe, APh, APu) 2.4.0.2301
Dell OptiPlex 7060, i5-8500 3.00 GHz, 16 GB, Intel UHD Graphics 630, Dell P2417H 1920 x 1080, Windows 11 Pro, Version 23H2, Build 22631.3155.
Dell Latitude E5570, i5-6440HQ 2.60 GHz, 8 GB, Intel HD Graphics 530, 1920 x 1080, Windows 11 Pro, Version 23H2, Build 22631.3155.
Intel NUC5PGYH, Pentium N3700 2.40 GHz, 8 GB, Intel HD Graphics, EIZO EV2456 1920 x 1200, Windows 10 Pro, Version 21H1, Build 19043.2130.

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When I trace a photo, it's hard to avoid changing the base layer accidentally, especially in Photo or Pixel Persona in Designer.
Locking the base layer or adding another layer to block the base layer won't work.
Need a way for total lock of layers.
 

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  • 3 weeks later...
13 minutes ago, kat said:

What does locking a layer actually do?

https://affinity.help/photo/English.lproj/pages/LayerOperations/locking.html

-- Walt
Designer, Photo, and Publisher V1 and V2 at latest retail and beta releases
PC:
    Desktop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 64GB memory, AMD Ryzen 9 5900 12-Core @ 3.00 GHz, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 

    Laptop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 32GB memory, Intel Core i7-10750H @ 2.60GHz, Intel UHD Graphics Comet Lake GT2 and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Laptop GPU.
iPad:  iPad Pro M1, 12.9": iPadOS 17.4.1, Apple Pencil 2, Magic Keyboard 
Mac:  2023 M2 MacBook Air 15", 16GB memory, macOS Sonoma 14.4.1

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I don't know what it's supposed to do!! I assumed once something is locked you cannot change it until it is unlocked. The problem is it while the image seems unchanged except when it goes blurry (see below) now it moves after a save to somewhere else on the page. This makes the idea of layout ridiculous. Back in the days when I use to do physical layout and I pasted something in place to be sent to the printer it stayed where I put it. (Yeah I am an old guy!). One can't use 

I have layouts with combinations of text and images. I save the document open it up and things have moved. First of all this should not happen under any circumstances with any program!! I should have to anything more than place an item in the document and it should stay where it was placed. I have used a number of programs and done layout for small newsletters for galleries and music programs as well as posters. I have used several graphic programs over the years including Corel Draw, Pagemaker, Indesign, etc. and this never happened with them. This is a regular occurrence and I am working on a project with mostly images and some text and I am constantly moving things back into place even after "locking" whatever that means. Noe in addition images go blurry. Usually over time, several minutes they appear normal but some seem to stay that way. 

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9 hours ago, kat said:

https://affinity.help/photo/English.lproj/pages/LayerOperations/locking.html

Locking is useful when you need to prevent a layer from being moved or transformed unintentionally.

So all it means is that you can't move an item on a locked layer of transform it using any transform tools. But you can paint on it, erase it, smudge, etc. Have I got the gist?

Yes.

-- Walt
Designer, Photo, and Publisher V1 and V2 at latest retail and beta releases
PC:
    Desktop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 64GB memory, AMD Ryzen 9 5900 12-Core @ 3.00 GHz, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 

    Laptop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 32GB memory, Intel Core i7-10750H @ 2.60GHz, Intel UHD Graphics Comet Lake GT2 and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Laptop GPU.
iPad:  iPad Pro M1, 12.9": iPadOS 17.4.1, Apple Pencil 2, Magic Keyboard 
Mac:  2023 M2 MacBook Air 15", 16GB memory, macOS Sonoma 14.4.1

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Yes that is understood BUT

1) This was not necessary in Adobe InDesign, Pagemaker, etc unless move it!

2) When I save a file in AFFINITY PUBLISHER I have reopened and found items like text columns and images moved quite noticeably from where I placed them. As a result I lock them which should be unnecessary since no worthy layout and design program should have things moving after saving and reopening. For instance I am working on a book using two columns with plenty of images. In most cases I tend to line up pictures and columns in guides either within a column, spread across like say a half page etc., as the images vary in aspect and/or shape. 

3) The results are that I will reopen the file and they will shift away from where they were saved. 

4) Locking adds a what should be unnecessary step when changes need to made but even that is not successful.

5) to fully exacerbate the project the images unlike themselves after saving and reopening and what remains is a blurry version of same. This then requires deleting the unlinked blurred version and replacing the image as attempts to relink do not work. And the need for relinking is a flaw and should not be necessary. 

 

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On 3/26/2021 at 7:58 PM, ashf said:

Locking the base layer or adding another layer to block the base layer won't work.
Need a way for total lock of layers.

  1. group the (locked) layer with itself
  2. lock the group

It still won't totally lock it, but it will become immune to accidental clicks if it's the background layer at the bottom of the stack.

14 hours ago, kat said:

But you can paint on it, erase it, smudge, etc.

You don't have to, though. You can control what will happen via View > Assistant Manager.
I've set it up to be totally non-destructive to any existing layers. So either it adds a new layer, or it adds a new mask layer, or it does nothing.
Unless I'd deliberately select the locked layer inside the locked group. And this is only possible via the Layers panel, not on the canvas.
And even if the locked group layer is selected, painting or erasing only adds a new pixel or mask layer to the group, leaving the layers inside untouched.

I have now full control.

MacBookAir 15": MacOS Ventura > Affinity v1, v2, v2 beta // MacBookPro 15" mid-2012: MacOS El Capitan > Affinity v1 / MacOS Catalina > Affinity v1, v2, v2 beta // iPad 8th: iPadOS 16 > Affinity v2

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Sorry, but in my eyes this is too much mumbo-jumbo instead of just making a locked layer fully locked. Why not just respecting the standards users are used to?

When I lock a layer, I want it to be protected from any possible manipulation, including accidental deletion.

BTW, even if you turn off everything in the Assistant Manager, you can stil paint on a locked but selected pixellayer. Thus this is no protection at all.

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1 hour ago, chessboard said:

in my eyes this is too much mumbo-jumbo instead

Then simply ignore every workaround/workflow offered here and keep on whining instead – if that's less mumbo-jumbo and makes you feel better. ;)

1 hour ago, chessboard said:

Why not just respecting the standards users are used to?

Probably it's just me, but what I always hated in Schmadobe apps – Ill-frustrator in particular – was that if you lock an object, it's literally deadlocked. As in: absolutely unselectable, unless you'd find it buried inside your hundreds of object layers in the Layers panel.
You can't please everybody, as it seems. :P

~~~

That all said, I'd like to have an option to fully lock a layer as well.
Options are a Good Thing™.

MacBookAir 15": MacOS Ventura > Affinity v1, v2, v2 beta // MacBookPro 15" mid-2012: MacOS El Capitan > Affinity v1 / MacOS Catalina > Affinity v1, v2, v2 beta // iPad 8th: iPadOS 16 > Affinity v2

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Agreed on adding a proper lock feature that completely locks all edits on a layer. The current iteration I don't mind existing as an option since it can be useful when just wanting to exclude something from a canvas selection, but it should not be called "Lock", since it only disables selecting and moving layers on the canvas in specific circumstances. I just want the Photoshop version of locking layers, including locking everything inside a group when you lock the group. It is just simply a useful feature to have, especially as a painter.

The current Affinity version may not make or break any project of mine, but it is simply a nice feature to have, and to me Affinity's Lock is not following my expectations of what such a feature should do. I think most people here would agree as well.

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8 hours ago, Frozen Death Knight said:

Agreed on adding a proper lock feature that completely locks all edits on a layer.

Just to show how the web Photopea approaches to locking layers and their content, where the user has a choice of "3" options/types of locks.
image.png.c936c2b4b66be3bb766035b593e0a14c.png image.png.08abf6b97b3851bfb1ee3a917cfe281f.png image.png.f23070476cf5b1149d718d94db614c1b.png image.png.668e5dcb11edbd36db0c33f0df07b8cd.png

image.png.dc5df829b31b685d8dcfc769a2b8c2ab.png

 

P.S. Photopea can process Affinity files.

Affinity Store (MSI/EXE): Affinity Suite (ADe, APh, APu) 2.4.0.2301
Dell OptiPlex 7060, i5-8500 3.00 GHz, 16 GB, Intel UHD Graphics 630, Dell P2417H 1920 x 1080, Windows 11 Pro, Version 23H2, Build 22631.3155.
Dell Latitude E5570, i5-6440HQ 2.60 GHz, 8 GB, Intel HD Graphics 530, 1920 x 1080, Windows 11 Pro, Version 23H2, Build 22631.3155.
Intel NUC5PGYH, Pentium N3700 2.40 GHz, 8 GB, Intel HD Graphics, EIZO EV2456 1920 x 1200, Windows 10 Pro, Version 21H1, Build 19043.2130.

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9 hours ago, loukash said:

Then simply ignore every workaround/workflow offered here and keep on whining instead – if that's less mumbo-jumbo and makes you feel better. ;)

Why use workarounds when there could be a direct way? All discussions here are about tools. Tools should lead to working straight ahead, not thinking about solutions to problems caused by the tools. I am not a slave to my tools, I am not whining. I am just criticizing an incomplete workflow or concept here - as a customer. Because I would like to see the Affintiy Suite grow and become better. I work for publishers and have to live with the critics of the art directors. Most times they are right and my work get's better when I hear to their critics.

Basically, I have no problem with evolving software. And I understand that there is a concept behind the way layer locking is designed in Affitiy software. But since this concept is obviously not thought through to the end or complete, I would like to see Affinity do some tweaking here. They could provide a second option to fully lock a layer or they could modify the existing one. Doing things differently does not mean doing them better in every case. There are reasons why locking layers is done the way it is in other programs. By the way, Photoshop now has 5 different options for locking a layer, each with its own special purpose.

9 hours ago, loukash said:

Probably it's just me, but what I always hated in Schmadobe apps – Ill-frustrator in particular – was that if you lock an object, it's literally deadlocked. As in: absolutely unselectable, unless you'd find it buried inside your hundreds of object layers in the Layers panel.
You can't please everybody, as it seems. :P

I find this Adobe-hate a bit strange, but this aside. So where's the difference to AD? You can't select a locked object on the canvas in AD either. You have to find it in the layers palette. The problem in AD is the ability to manipulate a locked layer after it has been accidentally selected in the Layers panel, for example because it is part of a group or by selecting a range of layers, for example. Computers are dumb, but they could prevent you from making mistakes.

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