Locking layer contents

[Pšenda]

The existing way of locking the layer does not protect its contents from unwanted change.

It only provides protection before selecting from canvas area and moving contents (https://forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php?/topic/53707-lockingunlocking-layers/&do=findComment&comment=271924).

 

But it would also be useful to ensure protecting the layer from unwanted contents modifications.

For example, as it is solved in Photoshop, with "Fully" and "Partialy" lock (https://helpx.adobe.com/photoshop/using/moving-stacking-locking-layers.html).

 

Related Threads

 

[Pšenda]

 

[Gackt]

Yes please! 

[Pšenda]

 

[Pšenda]

 

[Pšenda]

 

[Pšenda]

 

[IanSG]

On 1/18/2018 at 1:27 PM, Pšenda said:

For example, as it is solved in Photoshop, with "Fully" and "Partialy" lock

I'd like to see this too, though I'd prefer the names to be a bit more descriptive e.g. "Lock Content" and "Lock Location".

[srg]

A lock should be a lock, a real lock...

[kat]

Definitely need a better lock!!!

[donutfactory]

Putting in my vote for a layer lock that ensures objects on locked layers aren't editable.

The lack of this capability means that we cannot structure our documents effectively. We use layers to isolate and select geometries that we want to edit via locks. Just now, I wasn't able to create a series of buttons and duplicate them without duplicating the underlying background layers, which makes layers-as-structure effectively moot. In the desktop app, and other similar apps like Photoshop and Illustrator, this is standard. You use layers to isolate related geometries for editing, but also to create a reasonable document structure.

Edited February 21, 2020 by donutfactory
clarity

[chessboard]

Stumbling over not really locked "locked" layers a couple of times, I sign in here. I would prefer a more detailed locking (like in Photoshop) as mentioned above, too!

This is not meant as rant, but I question why some features are implemented only half way. I find it obvious that a layer lock should completely protect a layer from unintentional access. There should be at least one additional function to do this. Like I said, not meant as a harsh criticism, just wondering.

[MEB]

Hi @donutfactory
Welcome to Affinity Forums
Sorry the delayed reply. I assume you have locked the underlying background layers correct? If so, did you try to select the buttons on the canvas drawing a marquee around them (and picking the underlaying objects) accidentally? If that was the case this is a bug that's currently logged to be fixed. You shouldn't be able to select layers directly from the canvas if they are locked (only from the Layers panel which we consider an intentional action).

Hi @chessboard,
Are you experiencing the same issue as @donutfactory or is something different. As i said above the ability to select locked objects from the Layers panel is by design, however you shouldn't be able to select any locked object on canvas. Is there any case where these behaviours affect your workflow directly (other than the known bug i mentioned above)?

 

[Pšenda]

6 hours ago, MEB said:

the ability to select locked objects from the Layers panel is by design

As many users' requests show, this is not a suitable/sufficient design. This design assumes that the project has only a few layers, so the user can watch them. However, if the project has thousands of layers in many nested groups, it is difficult to see their content and their unwanted selection/changes. Then it is preferable (and so expected and assumed by the user) that locking the layer ensures that its content is protected, and that the user no longer has to worry about it.

The solution could be so simple - if the user selects a locked layer in the Layers panel, a dialog/query "Do you want to continue editing the locked layer? Yes/No" is displayed. Alternatively, this behavior (query and confirmation before editing a locked layer) could be enabled in Options. I would turn it on immediately :-)

[chessboard]

10 hours ago, MEB said:

Hi @chessboard,
Are you experiencing the same issue as @donutfactory or is something different. As i said above the ability to select locked objects from the Layers panel is by design, however you shouldn't be able to select any locked object on canvas. Is there any case where these behaviours affect your workflow directly (other than the known bug i mentioned above)?

Hi MEB,

thanks for your answer. Yes, I do get the same issue as @donutfactory . At least in Designer. I put some objects into a layer and locked only the layer, not the objects in it. Selecting by marquee works most time as expected (objects not selectable) but every third attempt or so it's possible to select the objects even though. I think this is the known issue your were talking about.

But as @Pšenda mentioned just preserving locked objects from being selected is not what is usually expected by users.Locked objects should be safe from any kind of manipulation, in particular from deleting. Otherwise it's a little bit like as if you lock you frontdoor and leave the backdoor open 😉.

[MEB]

Hi cheessboard,
Yes, i understand it's a bit different from how other apps behave/what users expect/are used too, however this allows you to still change some attributes of an object (if selecting it from the layers panel) without having to constantly lock/unlock the layers to perform these modifications - these are deliberate actions you have to carry on from the layers panel so they hardly (supposedly) should end in accidental changes.

Since selecting locked objects directly from canvas shouldn't be possible (the current issues are due to a bug) every possible "accidental" change should be covered. So yes, the behaviour is different but it shouldn't affect user's workflow if working as described/designed. If you do have a use case/daily workflow where changes are happening accidentally because of the way it works (with the bug fixed not as it is now) let us know. It will be certainly looked at, and changes made if necessary. Thanks for your feedback.

[ashf]

+1 for protecting locked layer from delete key.

 

[Pšenda]

And more:

 

[eobet]

I also went searching for this bug and I'm very surprised at the replies from the staff in this thread.

To me as a user, this is utter insanity. If the developers disagree, at least add a toggle in the properties!

 

(Here it seems that the issue actually got logged, though.)

EDIT: I see a use case now with multiple art boards in the same document, but that's still crazy pants to me. How often do you edit an artboard vs all the objects inside of it? The ratio is like 1 to 1000 if not more... and you shouldn't be able to edit an artboard lightly, that should only be done through its dedicated tool!

 

[eobet]

Ok, now I just don't have any words anymore...

(Btw, I couldn't get this working in windowed mode. It only behaves this way when the window is maximized in Windows 10.)

[eobet]

I hope I'm misunderstanding the intention of Affinity developers, so I wonder if someone ( @MEB ) could take time to explain:

Each locked layer contain at least 100 objects. I had to lock these at creation by selecting each and every one of them.

I now wish to unlock all of them in order to move them around a bit, and then return to this locked state.

In Adobe Illustrator, this is literally 3 clicks. What is the procedure that Affinity expects me to do in this situation?

[MEB]

Hi eobet,
The small clip you posted above is a known bug that's already logged to be looked at. You shouldn't be able to select locked objects on the canvas (that's exactly the goal of the lock feature in Affinity apps).
Regarding your questions in your post below: unlock just the parent layers (no need to unlock the objects inside them) then with them selected (all objects inside them should appear selected on canvas as well) move/translate them all at once as required with the Move Tool, them lock the parent layers again.

[Pšenda]

 

 

[MEB]

Hi Pšenda,
I've suggested the user to add his voice to this thread myself yesterday on this post. Can you please elaborate a bit about the reasons why the current behaviour is not enough for you/how does it affect your workflow negatively in practise as i asked there? I'm not trying to devaluate this request, quite the opposite, i'm just trying to understand how it's affecting user's workflows to make a case for it, if it does in fact cause issues. Thanks.

[Pšenda]

Hi MEB,
I have already described my reasons:
- If I lock a layer, I expect its contents to always be protected. I still don't want to think about whether I will accidentally/mistakenly delete/destroy this manipulation during some manipulation in the Layers panel. Which I usually find out only after the repair of damages is not possible or is unnecessarily demanding (no simple Undo, for example, when I have their visibility temporarily turned off so that they do not disturb me during other work).
- if the Layers panel has a lot of layers, even though I try to organize them into groups, then it is very easy for these important and unfortunately unprotected layers to become entangled in the selection, eg when selecting via Shift/Ctrl click to start and end layer list. Then performing a group operation (delete, rasterize, color settings/adjustments, lineweight adjustment, fx function, etc.) will also affect this unprotected layer.