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2 hours ago, SrPx said:

I don't know, to each his/her own. I only know that sooner or later,  at some point one needs badly to touch the code....And then is when the "fun" begins, if the person in question can't even touch a line...

Well, if a used tool (even a WHSIWYG one etc.) does produce/outputs well structured and readable associated code then it's Ok. Finally it's all just code those tools produce and thus it should be kept in an also manual editable manner. - A bunch of tools like Webflow, Macaw ... etc. claim to produce clean code, though personally I never tested any of those.

However, to me these things look always as been made first of all from designers for designers and thus people who tend to come more from graphical drawing environments (picture nudges) and which fear or are too lazy to code by hand in plain editors etc. Maybe they are otherwise overwhelmed by the complexity of code frameworks usages and the like, thus needing something which hides all that complexity out from their view. Even I often wonder, if they still do really understand the technical backgrounds and relationships of involved technologies here then.


☛ Affinity Designer 1.7.1 ◆ Affinity Photo 1.7.1 ◆ OSX El Capitan

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looking a bit more into their site... it reminds a ton to a very older thing, called HTMLKit, it also worked with extensions and also the html one was highly developed.... (but wasn't really wysiwyg, was an IDE. Still, the extensions concept, very similar). Oh, still exists ( htmlkit.com, seems now is prepared for LESS (a very convenient and "IN" CSS framework )) , it seems, and also seems is non related with that other company. And anyways, is totally a different concept, is code wit ha ton of helpers. 

 

Seems the one you say, which danger could be that being a download thing (instead of what weebly or Wix include, which is, you handle an online editor which obviously is always up-to-date in the server) and being the web sth that evolves so fast, the danger of desktop applications for this, is that they become obsolete little after downloading them. But seems a purchase (not expensive) gives you the rights for free updates until a major version. IMO the way to keep your customers. That perhaps means you need to update every year or every 2 years, as much. But that's pretty fine. For a tool like this, it only makes sense that you have it ALWAYS updated . It can become very useless just a few months in a frozen version, as the web is that fast-changing. So, clearly is a tool to be constantly updating (this or any web builder, or XHMTL, HTML, or CSS framework) those free updates, AND efinitely immediately purchase the next major version in its moment. These apps, if not updated with standards are worse for you than any other idea. So, this is very important to keep in mind. You need to be very in the update mentality, for sth like this. or one could render some disasters in the web....

 

Yep, these tools are not for everyone (I recon I like what I'm reading in that site) but for people knowing already to use those markup languages and CSS specification, it'd make no sense, as a lot of flexibility would be lost... I perfectly understand that people with careers very far from this kind of skills, would only be interested in a raw dump into PDF, if that works in this case....

 

 


Affinity Designer and Affinity Photo licenses, Windows 7, i7  860 (2009) 2.8 GHz,  8 GB RAM, GTX 1050 2 GB, HD 7200 RPM.  Wacom Intuos 4 XL.

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Pinegrow is a much better solution. Nope, not WYSIWYG in the pure meaning. It is a very capable development tool. If you don't mind learning a little anyway.


My computer is a nothing-special Toshiba laptop with unremarkable specs running Windows 10 64-bit.

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7 minutes ago, MikeW said:

Pinegrow is a much better solution. Nope, not WYSIWYG in the pure meaning. It is a very capable development tool. If you don't mind learning a little anyway.

I've read about that tools. Seems interesting to me, and I guess you have first hand experience with it, don't you?

Best regards!


You'll never know what you can do until you get it up as high as you can go!   

AMD FX 8350 :: Radeon HD 7870 :: Windows 10 ::  http://mithferion.deviantart.com/

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Yes, I have Pinegrow and have used it. I'm not much into webdev these days, but I would upgrade and continue to use it if I got a gig for it and a CMS was not part of the equation (well, with the exception if I needed to make a WordPress theme as it can also do that).


My computer is a nothing-special Toshiba laptop with unremarkable specs running Windows 10 64-bit.

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Thanks for answering. Also, another question: when you say If you don't mind learning a little anyway, do you mean the technical aspects (HTML/CSS/Another)?

Best regards!


You'll never know what you can do until you get it up as high as you can go!   

AMD FX 8350 :: Radeon HD 7870 :: Windows 10 ::  http://mithferion.deviantart.com/

Oxygen Icons :: Free Quality Fonts :: Public Domain Pictures :: iOS 11 Design Resources :: iOS App Icon Template :: Hot to do High Quality Art :: Mesh Warp / Distort Tool Considerations

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v_kyr, I agree with all your post. Anyhow, issues showed up in my experience specially in my last stage as a frontend. So much that I had to finally ditch them all, even while latest years I was only trying to speed-up the graphical part. (the actual graphics + code integration) 

 

Quote

Finally it's all just code those tools produce and thus it should be kept in an also manual editable manner.

 

One other problem is maintaining that . If every body in a project would use it, no probs. But... in a company like in the ones I worked, never the case... backend people where on Linux, 100%. using IDEs or directly Emacs or Vim, hehe. It'd have been pure wishful thiking to hope any of those would install a Windows or mac and put there a Muse, Dreamweaver or the like . And is not the case only of being at a company. Also happens when one is a freelancer. I don't know other ppl, but I find almost always the case when I am one of the persons working for someone in same project, even if we don't contact, the freelancers, among us. So, me or the other one, needs to take the code (I said i don't do this web making activity, I mean, I mostly don't, but  from time to time stuff comes) and be able to edit it. yep, if is clean code,great, but also if the operation is just a someone taking the output from a person using that wysiwyg. But for example, just read in their page -of this site mentioned- that they don't do that well, they recon, in importing code files. That issues can happen there, as they have their internals, and they dump stuff in the best way possible in export (said here to be clean, i have not tested....) , but import needs to be converted to sth that their internals can work with. This means that a 1:1 with code, that can be edited constantly in the two directions, sth needed so often while making a site or web app, is not gonna be easy.

 

Anyways, that's me becoming picky and doing it wrong. As I am thinking as if the functionality was to make sites in the sane way, but complete sites, at a serious level. Not just a static output in web format for your publishing content already edited in APub. If I undrstood well. For that, an app like that would be pretty ok. And IMO, better than this one linked, the one that could coome in the affinity line, as the content exported in a native file, to be read as Affinity native file in import, from Apub into the new tool, would be much more 1:1, seamless, than a export from APub to some third party wysiwyg.  Anyways, that can be an extremly long wait, so, definitely, for the usage mentioned -which is quite limited- it worths it the purchase of one of these tools.  (maybe, it'd had to be seen how goes the import of APub content, or any import at all,  into that one or a similar web application of that nature)

 


Affinity Designer and Affinity Photo licenses, Windows 7, i7  860 (2009) 2.8 GHz,  8 GB RAM, GTX 1050 2 GB, HD 7200 RPM.  Wacom Intuos 4 XL.

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1 minute ago, Mithferion said:

Thanks for answering. Also, another question: when you say If you don't mind learning a little anyway, do you mean the technical aspects (HTML/CSS/Another)?

Best regards!

 

Mainly it is learning the how to do something in PG. That is especially true for people coming into PG with knowledge of another application or having used a fixed-position web creator (like WebPlus et al). The more knowledge one has in those types of applications the harder it is to learn...sort of akin to learning APhoto when having used other applications for some time. The deeper knowledge of PS can make it more difficult than it could be when transitioning to APhoto, for instance. One "expects" certain function names or that like-named functions would behave exactly the same. It can be a hindrance.


My computer is a nothing-special Toshiba laptop with unremarkable specs running Windows 10 64-bit.

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another one I didn't know... besides being disconnected for 5 years (with ins and outs, as in the middle have configured small online shop, made some simple sites, etc)  is the fact that I tend to keep very far from those. But I'm getting surprised -slightly, as i predicted that this would not be an exception of how much all is evolving-  but in f first look I quite like it. A really good wysywyg , allowing FULL control (almost sure that's impossible) in theory would be BETTER even for when you are very capable with the web code, as anyway, if in charge of the concept/graphic design, mounting the thing by just well made css classes and chopping accurately the graphics, is not fast , or no as much as doing it graphically (BTW, Photoshop sectors and web export always produced a not too nice code, either...Lately... haven't tested) . So, an UI that allows mounting it all graphically, but using sth like the Chrome developers extension (or Firefox equivalent) to "inspect", select and double click or sth, to edit that DIV code, and even access the exact CSS class or property right from there, that'd be very much a time saver.  If the code exported (in general) later is garbage, that advantage gets 100% destroyed. So, depends on implementation. Is a graphical builder where you can edit code "in place" , graphically. if does it well, that'd be a win-win. But again, I need to see it to believe it, after so many other horror stories in the past....It does look like it might do it well, tho. Lol...seems the price is exactly the same than the other app,. in the basic license.


Affinity Designer and Affinity Photo licenses, Windows 7, i7  860 (2009) 2.8 GHz,  8 GB RAM, GTX 1050 2 GB, HD 7200 RPM.  Wacom Intuos 4 XL.

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"fixed-position web creator "  ....WebDwarf used fixed position divs, that is, with position: absolute or fixed, often, and using pixels, not relative neither percentages. Do you refer to that ? Yeah, that's bad, Specially in this all for mobiles content times. Although, often  grids are created in bricks of pixels (at least the smallest "brick", the smaller container), just using the fluid grid concept, so, yeah, not issue at all, in any case. I'll dig that Pinegrow thing, just out of curiosity. Probably the other one, too. In an ideal world, one would prefer tools that would shorten time needed making sites, specially when the main activity is not making webs, anymore. But I'll see if that's possible with those two new things.


Affinity Designer and Affinity Photo licenses, Windows 7, i7  860 (2009) 2.8 GHz,  8 GB RAM, GTX 1050 2 GB, HD 7200 RPM.  Wacom Intuos 4 XL.

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Ok. Seen the video. I quite like it, to be brutally honest.

 

It works A LOT like Dreamweaver did in its most mature years. 

 

Yes, this is for coders wanting to speed up, really, and/or people at least knowing basic concepts, tho I can imagine ppl with drag and drop intentions only can as well manage here.

 

I was almost to think...heck... why another DW? we all know already this does not work in a current frontend team, which tends to be linux focused....BUT....besides there's linux/mac/win versions (tho I don't see my linux colleagues much into this sort of visual apps, to be sincere) . But then I saw... is a kind of thing like DW was, but adapted to times, and supporting at least quite a number of things left out in most all other previous solutions  . To name only a short list of what I've just watched in the video, of the advantages I see :

 

- cross platform, in the 3, linux included, and while I never so it important for Affinity's current tools, for making graphics, it is for making sites, where rarely one works alone, be it a gig, or task in the work place.

- Supports Javascript ! That is, writing it and testing it, see if it works, etc. This alone would shine over any other feature. My solution, other than just uploading at least to our test server, was often to use a develpers' extension in the browser while visiting the page to be changed, and trying chunks of code thanks to that extension.

- Support for responsive. But this is a factor in common with things like that the other tool mentioned, Weebly too, even Wix (but not so much as weebly )

- Support for Bootstrap (a framework for UI elements, forms, etc, that is very practical and used in a ton of sites. It's quite important, very. Is not just "yet another thing". ) 

- Grids systems, like all the above, working inside the application !

- Server calls supported, meaning working directly with that in the UI , not a chunk of characters you would only leave there written, instead, sth you could dynamically make it work, so really study the site behavior, etc.

 

And this are only a few that i can remember right now, there are quite some more

 

 


Affinity Designer and Affinity Photo licenses, Windows 7, i7  860 (2009) 2.8 GHz,  8 GB RAM, GTX 1050 2 GB, HD 7200 RPM.  Wacom Intuos 4 XL.

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On 2/6/2018 at 1:04 PM, Alfred said:

Welcome to the Serif Affinity Forums, @LassiP. :)

 

 

Not in the first release, and probably not even in the second. We've been told by Dave Harris (one of the developers) that right-to-left text support is likely to be several years away.

 

Ugh! Was just logging in to ask for right-to-left support...

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as a new user of the affinity tools – after my adobe cancelation in april we are switching completely* to affinity – I am really happy with the results the products (affinity designer in particular) are delivering. I can not be more excited to get an indesign replacement – it feels like almost 20 years ago with quark xpress and indesign. 

 

i mentioned *completely, well, i can not kill indesign from my comp for now. so dear affinity team: PLEASE speed up ;)xD, we are waiting in despair. or at least give us somehow like a roadmap-idea to calm us down. 

 

keep up your great work, I am realy suprised and so glad, to see what your independent software can do. thank you for that emancipation from adobe.

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Roadmap ? it has been already said that in summer there comes a beta....

And in the meantime, I guess they are busy with other stuff as well (brush engine problems, issues here and there)  with the other apps.

 


Affinity Designer and Affinity Photo licenses, Windows 7, i7  860 (2009) 2.8 GHz,  8 GB RAM, GTX 1050 2 GB, HD 7200 RPM.  Wacom Intuos 4 XL.

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so what is your comment's point exactly? a beta in the summer (I knew that) and you guess there are some issues (well, that is the process of developing apps indeed)?
thank you @SrPx for that insight. I guess (?)

 

may I ask, you are involved in serif / work for them? if not, please dedicate your time to other members. white noise is so last season 

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Rude comment before, and rude comment now (for a total of 2 posts)...nice.  They do not owe you more info than they already told you (quite a lot) . And no, I don't work for them, not in the slightest way one could imagine. You are not an admin to tell me if I can post (or what to post, or post only in the line of thought you like, etc) or not in whatever the thread.


Affinity Designer and Affinity Photo licenses, Windows 7, i7  860 (2009) 2.8 GHz,  8 GB RAM, GTX 1050 2 GB, HD 7200 RPM.  Wacom Intuos 4 XL.

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dearest @SrPx

 

thank you for teaching me some "digital etiquette" by using the same language you are falsly accusing me of. – in no point my first comment was rude. but rhetorical figures needs to be understand by the audience. so maybe I was not precise enough with my written word – and you unfortunately didn't get the joke. 

I am not the admin, you are totally right. but I can ask you kindly not to respond to my comments if they are not have been addressed directly to you. please do not waste our time now in an ongoing endless but pointless dialog here. who has time for that. – have a happy easter weekend. 

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In one thing I agree with you, I don't have the time. Cheers.


Affinity Designer and Affinity Photo licenses, Windows 7, i7  860 (2009) 2.8 GHz,  8 GB RAM, GTX 1050 2 GB, HD 7200 RPM.  Wacom Intuos 4 XL.

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Time for a group hug

 

20031110-Pooh-Bear-Group-Hug.gif

GFKrXDB.gif


Affinity Designer 1.7.1.404 & beta 1.7.2.464  Affinity Photo 1.7.1.404 beta  1.7.2.464 Affinity Publisher 1.7.0.422 beta  1.7.2.458

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RAM 32.0 GB Dual-Channel DDR3 @ 798 MHz (11-11-11-28)

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Graphics Intel HD Graphics 4600 (Gigabyte)

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23 minutes ago, michaelokraj said:

obviously … you have. please let me have the last word

 

nah.


Affinity Designer and Affinity Photo licenses, Windows 7, i7  860 (2009) 2.8 GHz,  8 GB RAM, GTX 1050 2 GB, HD 7200 RPM.  Wacom Intuos 4 XL.

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Well, I finally deleted/unintalled my entire CS5.5 install. Have gone all-in with Affinity Photo, Designer, and Photo for iPad. Needed some file management and researched for half a way... until I discovered the Adobe Bridge component (that I like) is actually free. 
 

So, that leaves InDesign. I don't need it immediately, but will soon. I was going to have to install some legacy stuff onto High Sierra just to run half of my Adobe stuff, and decided to pull the plug on it. 

 

If Affinity Designer isn't even in beta yet... that means we could be looking at at least 6 months to a year before roll out? Is there an iPad version of Publisher that's also being developed? 

I suppose I can just pay the Creative Cloud monthly fee if I really have to have InDesign right away, but has anyone discovered any good InDesign alternatives that will open InDesign files.. just to get by until Publisher drops? Will Publisher also have a web layout/design/html feature set as well? 

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Nothing else will open native InDesign files that I am aware of. There are options regarding IDML files, though. 

 

One is Viva Designer, another is QuarkXPress. I cannot recall if Scribus can.


My computer is a nothing-special Toshiba laptop with unremarkable specs running Windows 10 64-bit.

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21 minutes ago, MikeW said:

One is Viva Designer, another is QuarkXPress.

 

Can QXP open *.indd files all by itself, or does it need the help of a Markzware (or similar) plugin? :/


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Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 1.7.1.404 • Windows 10 Home (4th gen Core i3 CPU)
Affinity Photo for iPad 1.7.1.143 • Designer for iPad 1.7.1.1 • iOS 12.4 (iPad Air 2)

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