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7immer

Non destructive cr2 raw files with XMP?

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Hey guys,

I first want to say a massive well done so far, its looking awesome!

I don't know if its been mentioned here but I've noticed when testing out RAW files that once you make changes to an image in "Develop" and commit no XMP file is saved out (at least for .cr2 files). I really like XMP files as it provides a non destructive way to edit your files, its a standard across many RAW editors and has great compatibility across many apps. I would also be able to theoretically edit existing files originally edited in other programs right in Affinity its self!

 

I've also noticed you can't go back to the "Develop persona" after committing an edit although reading the warning box suggests this wont be an issue in later builds.

I just wanted to know the situation around this topic. Will things be improving or is this the limit to what you can do with RAW files in affinity.

 

Cheers guys :)

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We plan on allowing you to re-develop a raw file with Affinity Photo but you will still need to save the file as an afphoto file for this to work.

 

We could look at saving the additional information as XMP data in the future.

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Hey TonyB,

 

Thanks for answering my question, its appreciated :) 

Another similar question is project file sizes (at least for RAW projects). Usually if I edit a RAW file the only addition to the file size is a small sized XMP file. Now if I edit a file in "Develop" I end up with a wapping 200mb file. I'm guessing this is partly due to its beta stage but in any case this kind of file size adds up very quickly if you have a set of 100 images to edit :wacko:  I'm only a photographer enthusiast and I'm not sure about other RAW formats but I worry how this might effect other pro photographer users on a professional level.
 

Thanks for reading.

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We plan on allowing you to re-develop a raw file with Affinity Photo but you will still need to save the file as an afphoto file for this to work.

 

We could look at saving the additional information as XMP data in the future.

Has this request been processed any further?

 

I would highly recommend to enable the writing of an xmp file when saving after a raw development. 

 

So far I have been working with photoshop only and I already have dsicovered some advantages of arffinity photo, but I bought it also because of the possibility to do raw development with it. And so far as I know, the saving of an xmp file is a quasi standard in raw development, to save the changes made during the development in a non destructive way.

 

If I do this in photoshop, I make my changes, then click on "save" and then I can choose between psd, jpg, png and so on, but in any way a xmp file will be saved parallel, so that I can correct my raw development at any time from the point on, when I left it.

 

For me in most cases a jpg file is fully sufficient for the upload to facebook and similar social media platforms, so I won't need a afphoto file at all. If I would wand to do further things with my photo, then I can save it later as an afphoto file, because I can return to the state of my development at any time because of the existing xmp file.

 

Such a workflow is not possible right now. I assume that when I once have left the development process, that I would always have to go through the whole development process again, without even being sure to achieve the same results.

 

So this is a very urgent request for a process improvement, as it is a kind of standard for many photographers an therefore an important argument to buy affinity photo. Could you please let us know, when such an inprovement could poissibly be ready?

 

Another reason for the importance of this request ar ethe file sizes. I haven't tested it yet but I would bet that the afphoto files will be quite big from a full frame photo of my Nikon D750 and since I have 150 to 350 photos from one concert, my space ain't endless and a xmp file is quite small and the jpg whiich I will publish, will be not too big.

 

So thank you very much in advance for your urgent reply!

 

Stefan

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I just saved my first afphoto file with protocol and here are the file sizes:

 

NEF raw file: 25.6 MB

 

JPG file: 16.9 MB (best quality)

 

afphoto file: 577 MB

 

psd export: 128 MB

 

This is unbelievable. What do you do with the data?

 

For comparison here are the values from Photoshop CC 2017 with the same raw file:

psd export: 49,6 MB

 

jpg export: 12,3 MB

You really have to improve these values, if you want to give people a chance to replace photoshop or use affinity photo instead of photoshop. It might work if you do a few photos in a month, but for me it doesn't. Even the jpgs are a quarter too big!

 

If this would be the only problem and you try to improve this in the next time, o.k. but what I need urgently are the xmp files!

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This is unbelievable. What do you do with the data?

 

For comparison here are the values from Photoshop CC 2017 with the same raw file:

 

NEF raw file: 25.6 MB

 

JPG file: 16.9 MB (best quality)

 

afphoto file: 577 MB

 

psd export: 128 MB

 

NEF raw file: 25.6 MB

No RAW file is ever altered in PP so no surprise there

 

JPG file: 16.9 MB (best quality)

That's about 2/3 the RAW size, quite ok.

 

afphoto file: 577 MB

Now I understand you are puzzled… me too!!!

 

psd export: 128 MB

…and the TIFF file should be around that figure too.
 
 
psd, tiff and afphoto files may have 3 or 4 colour channels
so maybe a bigger bit depth could explain the 577MB?

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I have to agree with the above posts. I personally feel that affinity headed off in the wrong direction with the develop persona and raw photos. It's simply not useable on a hobby level for me let alone on a professional one for two reasons.
 

 

  • I often come back from holiday with many photos. I often edit about 50 of them. In affinity this would mean 50*577mb = 28850mb!! Ouch!!
     
  • I also like to be able to know that I can get the highest quality out of my photos. The destructive / semi destructive / non saving of all settings doesn't allow me to do this.

     

This is where XMP file format shines. Instead of a 28mb (Raw file) + 577mb (afphoto file of edits), I get a raw file and a tiny XMP file with my non destructive edits in. 

When editing Raw files in photoshop I wouldn't touch anything but the Camera Raw plugin. On the rare occasion I might create a photoshop file and make a few edits but thats the minority case.

It would be awesome if we could at least open our Raw files into develop persona and then export our "raw edits" as an XMP file. 
 

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I agree with @7immer! For any photographer who wishes to tweak the exposure/white-balance/framing of the dozens of photos shot today, and wishes to be able to revisit these changes in the future can not do this with a 500MB .afphoto file.

 

I understand that this "live development" could be part of a DAM product, but .xmp file support is a nice intermediate step until then (and useful with other programs too).

 

I guess "hot-linking" a raw file inside an .afphoto document, instead of storing all the pixel data of the image (while not ideal for the job) would had been somewhat useful as a temporary workaround - but seems the feature to link a document (instead of embedding it) has not been implemented yet

 

Happy new year everyone!

-Fotis

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Not being able to come back to my Raw edits at any time in the future is a deal breaker for me. I'm used to ACR/PS, Lightroom, Aperture, and best of all Capture One Pro. Being locked into a total re-edit that Affinity Photo forces me into is a waste of time. I only shoot in Raw, I process in Raw, and I output in various downstream formats as the job requires. Photoshop (without ACR) and Afinity Photo qualify as downstream.

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So we are 2 years on from this request and no progress huh?

This is beginning to look like Adobe style of development, never listening to the customer and just doing your own thing. 

 

Without the ability to save your raw edits without exiting the develop personna is simply crazy. I couldn't give a toss about the file size as storage is so cheap today, but the ability to do some quick raw edits such as maybe batch exposure increase to 100 shots, and saving that is critical. That should simply be saved as a side-car file (xmp or otherwise) that gets auto reloaded when you open the raw file in AP.

 

I guess you've got our money so you don't really care, but if this feature isn't added I think a lot of people will just give up on AP and move elsewhere.


Went back to Lightroom because the Affinity team don't listen to feedback, instead they'd rather argue and defend themselves rather than just make their program(s) work logically. Why make things more difficult? because thats what Affinity photo does!

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