bogarguz Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 Dear Serif Team, Happy Thanksgiving, I just finished my Flag Design, exported as PDF for Print 300 DPI, open this pdf in Acrobat, and it looks great. Then, I send it to a company for printing and making my flag, but they sent me a proof and there was two mask, weird. I attached my AD file, the PDF I sent to the printing company and the proof the printing company sent me. Thank you very much always for everything. Bogar MM-2017-Home-Flag-bgprint.afdesign MM-2017-Home-Flag-bgprintsm.pdf XPO-64215_Proof.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeW Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 Large format printing can be fun. It appears that the bazillion effects and the letter forms are not scaling properly, combined with the fact that the background Pantone is being knocked out. They seem to be opening your PDF file in AI, at the very least for the proof sign-off. But it is common for large format printing to use either CorelDraw or Illustrator to load in a client PDF and use one or the other to make corrections and or simply to send to the output device. One should check to see if they are using an Adobe RIP and using Acrobat to send to the RIP or an otherwise PDF workflow. If they are opening this in AI for sending to the RIP, then you may need to accommodate that workflow. Is there suppose to be bleed? It's not set up for bleed and the proof indicates the trim marks at the edge of the yellow Pantone background. So I don't know whether you built the bleed into the document dimensions or not. But if you did build the bleed into the doc dims, I hope that is communicated to the print establishment. I do see they added the CutContour around the background, but it isn't inside of any bleed, hence my question. Normally the CutContour would the trim line with the background extending past that into the bleed area. And just to make sure, you do know this job is using the three Pantone colors plus all four CMYK colors? While the letter forms are the Pantone Black (like the main border), all those stacked effects are using an RGB mix that separates into a 295% CMYK build. If you intended this to be only a 3 spot color job then those effects need worked on to rid them of the RGB used. Mike SrPx 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bogarguz Posted November 25, 2017 Author Share Posted November 25, 2017 Dear MikeW, thank you very much for all your great explanation. There are some question to ask to the printing company. They requiere Pantone Solid Coated colors. I will send them your replay so they can give me more info. I attached the template they sent me, so you can see the bleed and marks they requested. I just duplicated my AD file and I rasterized it. Then, I exported as PDF for print. I sent this PDF to them. Let's see when they replay to me for another proof. In the meantime, I attached my AD using their template, plus their template in PDF. I also attached my two new rasterized AD files with their PDF exported (Do you think this may work with the printing company? ) Question, how do you take out RGB from the effects, and convert them into Pantone? Thank you very very much MikeW. Bogar BestFlag-Flag-3x5+Flag+DS-PS1.pdf MM 2017 BestFlag-Flag-3x5 Template.afdesign MM-2017-Home-Flag-bgprintpg1px.afdesign MM-2017-Home-Flag-bgprintpx.afdesign MM-2017-Home-Flag-to-print-pg1px.pdf MM-2017-Home-Flag-to-print.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeW Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 You're most welcome. Pantone will not survive becoming a bitmap per se. Only to a multitone bitmap file (or a DCS EPS) and I don't think Serif software can produce these types of files. I'll download the template tonight but will compare it with the AD file better first thing in the morning. And I'll recommend how I would proceed in the morning. I'm a bit tired for real thinking tonight. Best regards, Mike SrPx 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bogarguz Posted November 25, 2017 Author Share Posted November 25, 2017 Thanks a lot MikeW for your expertise. Have a good night. PS: Well, if the PDF from the rasterized version, works in their machine to produce my design correctly; a little bit of change in the color is not important. I'll wait for your advise, Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bogarguz Posted November 25, 2017 Author Share Posted November 25, 2017 I just noticed that the black I used in the Piano keys and bkg was not Pantone. I changed it and I made new tentative final files. If I am using Pantone Colors, which Color Format should I choose in the Document Setup? right now I have CMYK & U.S. Web Coated (SWOP) v2. I didn't add dimensions to bleed, because I created the full file as one, them I assume the printing company will arrange the file to fit their template. the pg1 & pg2 are vector. The ones with px are rasterized. I didn't exported to PDF, since you are helping me a lot to find out what the real final product would be. Thanks a million, and good morning, Bogar MM-2017-Home-Flag-final-pg1.afdesign MM-2017-Home-Flag-final-pg2.afdesign MM-2017-Home-Flag-final-pg2px.afdesign MM-2017-Home-Flag-final-pxpg1.afdesign Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeW Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 Good morning, Bogar. OK. First thing is that AD cannot output the effects as a Pantone color. They always output in the color space of the document, in your case, CMYK. So you would need to check with the print service about whether that is acceptable. The only means around that, if you want to keep this a 3 spot color job is to use a different application for the output. So one would need to remove the effects from the text lines, export a PDF, open the PDF in, well, just about anything else, set the drop shadows using the Pantone black, then export the PDF. I also spent time this morning to fix the color issues. But even at that, without AD being able to output the drop shadows as the Pantone you are using (which I redid the drop shadows to use the Pantone black in your swatches), it may be moot if they allow the CMYK build for such effects. You can remove the effects altogether and use AD if retaining only 3 spot colors is a requirement for this establishment. Especially with the multi-layered/duplicated effects, one cannot do that with a spot color. It would truly muddy up the drop shadows and likely be a spoled print run as that would be too much for solid ink. I don't know what the viewing distance will be but such effects at a high resolution can look poor at a few feet away and further. Do note if you are using Illustrator, it cannot use the layers in a PDF. So everything comes in on a single "Layer 1" layer. The layer structure this place wants would need recreated, then the items moved to their appropriate layers. XDP and CD do not have this issue with retaining layers. Speaking of that, your artwork is not contained within the layer named ART. From reading their instructions, it needs to be regardless of what creates the final PDF. I didn't see on their website where the target resolution should be for bitmap effects. Most all the large format printing I do at this size targets 150 dpi. That should be checked with them. The output color profile should be one they desire. Which going by their template is the US SWOP profile you are using. Going by their unnecessarily weird template (but which evidently works for them), your file seems to be built fine. Never seen one like it. Never have used a template for large format printing. And seeing how they likely use AI, they ought to supply their template also as an AI file so that their customers using AI can at least have the layers retained. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bogarguz Posted November 25, 2017 Author Share Posted November 25, 2017 One more question MikeW, Why my AD file takes too long to export to PDF? or even another format. I click on Export Persona, and I didn't find the way to export as used to be, now i have to go to File Menu and choose Export and follow the same options as if i were in the other Persona. I export from the Export Persona and it passed more than 5 minutes and didn't do anything, so I cancel it. Thank you a lot MikeW, Bogar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeW Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 The file is large and those bitmap effects take AD a long time to render. Once you know their target DPI for effects/bitmaps, you can likely speed up PD creation if they say to use a lower DPI. Other applications I use can output such a file much quicker. For instance, once redone in Illustrator, the PDF file is created in under 10 seconds, same with CD and XDP. The creation of PDFs in AD when "complicated" have always plagued AD no matter the size, but the size does compound the problem. I don't use the Export Persona. For print work I don't see the point. For the people doing assets/UI work, it seems to make perfect sense to me. But I don't do such things. Mike bogarguz 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bogarguz Posted November 25, 2017 Author Share Posted November 25, 2017 Good morning MikeW, Thank you a lot for all the info. You are right in everything you said. The last part makes me laugh, and I agree with you, they should provide an AI file instead of a PDF one. Good news form my part. I made two PDFs from my final files. I transfer them to another computer (iMac with El Capitan), and open them in AI CS6. They look great, with a little darker tone to all colors, as usually AI does. Then, I test in AI the first PDF I sent to the printing company, and it looks badly with the knock out. My daughter saw me working with the Flag design, I told her about my issue, and she told me that she reduced the size of my first PDF file. I asked what? Well, she tried to help me, she saw my file was 9.4 MB and she used the Acrobat DC Reduce Size PDF feature, and make it 2.4 MB. Then, she sent to the printing company this reduced file. I checked this file in AI, and there it was the knockout (created by Acrobat DC I assume). Well, for you to see t, I attached my first PDF plus the reduced my daughter made. If you can open them in AI, you will see the issue. In other words, AD is not the culprit. It is AI. Thank you very much, I am learning a lot about Pantone colors and PDF exports. Which the most of the printing places in my city, use. I haven't found one of them without AI for printing. Well, Thanks a lot again, and i will work on the effects. Happy Holidays to you and all Serif Team, Bogar MM-2017-Home-Flag-bgprint.pdf MM-2017-Home-Flag-bgprintsm.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeW Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 Most of the time one would not desire a solid ink to overprint and so the knockout part is normal. In fact, one has to jump through hoops to get a solid ink to overprint. But their RIP should be set up to trap the black via a spread trap and so the black will slightly overlap the color beneath by a point thickness or so and the underlying substrate will not show. The main issue with the proof they sent back is everything that should cover the knock out was displaced. That might be due to them moving things around onto layers, though. If you will be using the rebuilt AI file, just send the AI file itself instead of a PDF. Just make sure to create the exact named layers from the template and move their template stuff and your artwork to the appropriate layers. Do set the document raster DPI to 150 until you hear back from them to raise/lower it or that it is good. In general, you do not need/want to run the PDF through Acrobat's reduced size feature. While it does get rid of some dross, what it can do to image effects can be bad. If you modify the image effects setting when using that function so that they do not drop below the desired threshold, all it's going to do is remove the XML data. And that's fine and can reduce the file size quite a bit depending on the PDF, if the images (the bitmap effects) are already at the target resolution there isn't enough gain to worry about. If you would like me to attach the rebuilt AI and its PDF, I would be happy to. (But do check that the appropriate items are on the exactly named layers in AI as per the template.) Mike SrPx and bogarguz 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bogarguz Posted November 25, 2017 Author Share Posted November 25, 2017 Hi MikeW, yes, please do so,I'd like to have those files. Thanks again for all your expertise. Keep me posted if something else you may say. Happy Holidays, Bogar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeW Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 Here it is... bogarguz.zip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bogarguz Posted November 26, 2017 Author Share Posted November 26, 2017 Good Morning MikeW, Thank you very much for everything, It has been a good class. Happy Winter, Bogar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.