Jump to content
kaseopea

Astute Graphics Technology

Recommended Posts

On 11/8/2017 at 1:58 PM, kaseopea said:

I understand that licensing of such technology would increase the price of Affinity Designer, but it also would ad super-powes that Adobe doesn't have in Illustrator.

I think Affinity would get much more clients with this feature built-in Affinity Designer.

nicely said,,,finally

in hope that someone listens

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

+1 more vote on integrating the Astute Graphics Technology in Affinity designer. 

I own the entire AG suite, and it’s the only reason I still open illustrator. This would give AD the upper hand over illustrator in every way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Izzy said:

+1 more vote on integrating the Astute Graphics Technology in Affinity designer. 

 

I know that it has been mentioned before but I don't understand how this would give AD an upper hand over Illustrator? You can use Astute Graphics Technology on Illustrator now, so if Designer could also run it that wouldn't really give Designer an advantage would it? For some people it might put them on an even playing field but it wouldn't give Designer an advantage. If you are talking about Serif licensing some of their code for use in Designer but that brings up a whole lot of questions. Does Astute Graphics even do that? If they do why hasn't Adobe done it? Surely Adobe could afford it seeing how much profit they make from forcing their users to rent their software. 

Even if it were possible it still does't change the fact that Illustrator can still run Astute's Graphics plugins so that isn't really an advantage as they would both have access to the same technologies. Also if that were possible, I imagine it would drive the price up for Designer quite a lot. So much more so that it makes me wonder if it would be worth it. Astute has some really nice stuff but I'd prefer that Designer could use Plugins so that users could decide whether or not they needed and wanted to pay for such things. I'm guessing that a lot of people don't need the features that Astute's plugins offer so it seems better to me to leave it as a optional thing, like what plugins offer. So for me the whole point of this thread should be about requesting that Designer be able to use plugins. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, Hokusai said:

I know that it has been mentioned before but I don't understand how this would give AD an upper hand over Illustrator?

 

It would give AD the upper hand because the technology would be built into the software, where right now Adobe only supports it as a plugin.
It would bring features to the table like better boolean operations, cleaner curves, collision detection, curve fittingscattering operations, Curve extension based on trajectory, etc.
If it is part of the core software, it makes it a better core package.

I actually agree with your completely, if I could just use the same plugins that would also be great!
Serif could also develop the tools as part of AD expansion, and just create a subscription for those of us that need it. I doubt astute will want to support plugins for multiple suites. And the developers at Serif will know who best to fit it in without compromising their suite.

I've also wondered why Adobe hasn't gone this route. I feel like Adobe doesn't really focus on their products with special care and attention they used to. The latest copies of Photoshop and Illustrator are very slow and unstable, and instead of fixing these issues they just keep on adding more features that contribute to compromised performance and unreliability.
I've been wondering if Photoshop for iPad is going to also accompany an unveiling of a rewritten Photoshop for desktop... in which case maybe they're just being secretive until their project is further along.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, Hokusai said:

I know that it has been mentioned before but I don't understand how this would give AD an upper hand over Illustrator? You can use Astute Graphics Technology on Illustrator now, so if Designer could also run it that wouldn't really give Designer an advantage would it? For some people it might put them on an even playing field but it wouldn't give Designer an advantage. If you are talking about Serif licensing some of their code for use in Designer but that brings up a whole lot of questions. Does Astute Graphics even do that? If they do why hasn't Adobe done it? Surely Adobe could afford it seeing how much profit they make from forcing their users to rent their software.

Even if it were possible it still does't change the fact that Illustrator can still run Astute's Graphics plugins so that isn't really an advantage as they would both have access to the same technologies. Also if that were possible, I imagine it would drive the price up for Designer quite a lot. So much more so that it makes me wonder if it would be worth it. Astute has some really nice stuff but I'd prefer that Designer could use Plugins so that users could decide whether or not they needed and wanted to pay for such things. I'm guessing that a lot of people don't need the features that Astute's plugins offer so it seems better to me to leave it as a optional thing, like what plugins offer. So for me the whole point of this thread should be about requesting that Designer be able to use plugins.

having the algorithms baked into AD would make for a better user experience than having to use a separate panel to do the things you want.


Mădălin Vlad
Graphic Designer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, mvlad said:

having the algorithms baked into AD would make for a better user experience than having to use a separate panel to do the things you want.

I understand the desire to have them built in, it would be great but I'm guessing that isn't going to happen. If it were, as I mentioned in my previous post, then Adobe would have done it years ago. Have the ability to use Plugins with Designer would, as @Izzy said, take care of the problem for most people. In fact having the ability to use plugins would allow people to add features that might only appeal to them. I'd like to see plugin support for Designer (which I'm guessing will be added eventually seeing how it is in Photo) that way people who want and need Astute's stuff can use them and other companies plugins as well. I'd also like to see Serif's take on some of the some of the features that Astute offers. I like Serif's way of thinking and I think they could come up with some interesting, and no doubt different, ways of doing things. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/5/2019 at 11:54 PM, Izzy said:

...and yet another vote on integrating the Astute Graphics Technology in Affinity designer. 

I LOVE AG's plugins. I see the difficulty of integrating or adding on as a plugin, but hope something happens. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If they go with licensing, Astute will have Affinity by the balls as it will quickly become no way to go back to old way of doing things and building there. Besides, it still has to be engineered to work within Designer's environment at the very least. Just some thoughts.


Microsoft Windows 10 Home (Build 19041)
AMD Ryzen 5 3600 @ 3600Ghz; Mobo: Asus X470-PRO
32GB DDR4 (3000Mhz)
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060Ti 6GB
Monitor 1: 4K @ 150%
Monitor 2: 1080p @ 100%

WACOM Intuos4 Large; X-rite i1Display Pro; NIKON D5600 DSLR

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I doubt it, they don't really have Adobe by the balls, and it's the best add-on suite for illustrator. (in fact it's the only reason I have illustrator installed side by side with the Affinity Suite)
However, if Serif could achieve a lot of the same functionality right in their own suite that would always be better!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It can also be seen as a win-win. AG developers are very very good in their field and the efficiency of their algorithms implemented in AD would increase the sales of the Affinity suite, still without subscription I suppose. And here I would be very curious to see the reaction of Adobe.

On the other hand, if AG can do it, why not Serif?

And conversely, why doesn't AG develop its own vector software? Why haven't they done it already? They certainly have the ability (knowledge, intelligence) to integrate all their algorithms into a graphical user interface. That would be the must of vector software.

PS : I am not an illustrator but I like to "play" with vector graphics.


Windows 10 Pro 64-bit (ver. 1909) - Intel Core i7 5820K 3.30 GHz - NVIDIA GTX 1070 - Samsung SSD 850 Pro 1TB - RAM 64 Go

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, ProColorGraphics said:

YES!!! Please make Astute Graphics plugins available/compatible with Affinity Designer! I use them a lot and one of the few things keeping me using Illustrator.

You're not the only one to say that. We've just doing a customer survey and many responses say they only keep to Illustrator due to the plugins. Really great to read that we're of use :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, PatrickM said:

It can also be seen as a win-win. AG developers are very very good in their field and the efficiency of their algorithms implemented in AD would increase the sales of the Affinity suite, still without subscription I suppose. And here I would be very curious to see the reaction of Adobe.

On the other hand, if AG can do it, why not Serif?

And conversely, why doesn't AG develop its own vector software? Why haven't they done it already? They certainly have the ability (knowledge, intelligence) to integrate all their algorithms into a graphical user interface. That would be the must of vector software.

PS : I am not an illustrator but I like to "play" with vector graphics.

Affinity (and Adobe) can eventually get to where we are today with our vector tech. But by that time, we'll be years ahead. 😇

Good question about the app development; we actually did develop one over several years. But then Affinity came out (along with several vector UI apps such as a XD and Figma, plus the re-emergence of CorelDraw on macOS) and it proved that the major segment remaining was the one Affinity has successfully taken; the price-sensitive market. Our plugins is typically aimed at heavy-duty vector users who require Illustrator's breadth of tools and extensibility to ensure very efficient workflows. Affinity is very good for its price point, but from signifiant research on our side, it still lacks many core tools which too many professionals require on a daily basis.

Instead, we switched to concentrating purely on our 10+ years of vector tech development. It's our core strength.

We'd be happy to help our Affinity, but they would likely need to develop a very deep extension mechanism that caters for interactive tools and deep access to file structures, etc. if licensing is not for them. We're not in Adobe's pocket and are already licensing our tech elsewhere. We're a very independent company and don't do exclusivity with the licensable tech :)

Where Affinity have excelled is their iPad app. It's leagues ahead what Adobe have got around to doing and very arguably the best technical vector drawing iPad out there. Unfortunately, iOS doesn't accomodate conventional plugins (which is why we developed https://astui.tech/ ).

But never say never regarding an Astute app. Just not in 2020.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, NIcholas van der Walle said:

Affinity (and Adobe) can eventually get to where we are today with our vector tech. But by that time, we'll be years ahead. 😇

Good question about the app development; we actually did develop one over several years.  ...

Instead, we switched to concentrating purely on our 10+ years of vector tech development. It's our core strength.... We're a very independent company and don't do exclusivity with the licensable tech :)

But never say never regarding an Astute app. Just not in 2020.

Thank you for your answer, which I didn't expect 🙂

I fully realize that.

Funnily enough, I re-subscribed to Adobe CC (mainly for the use of InDesign) and then very quickly acquired an Astute Graphics license. I still have to find time (a lot of time) to start using your many plugins and your Webinars are very useful to me. When I see what your algorithms can do, I tell myself that there is a segment still available, which apparently your customers confirm/support (I quote you "they keep AI due to the AG plugins")... but I am not in this business, therefore I have nothing to say 🤐

Patrick

 


Windows 10 Pro 64-bit (ver. 1909) - Intel Core i7 5820K 3.30 GHz - NVIDIA GTX 1070 - Samsung SSD 850 Pro 1TB - RAM 64 Go

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, PatrickM said:

And conversely, why doesn't AG develop its own vector software? Why haven't they done it already? They certainly have the ability (knowledge, intelligence) to integrate all their algorithms into a graphical user interface. That would be the must of vector software.

Well, if AG actually did create a standalone vector program, it would be a subscription.  So I guess 99% of the people on this forum would not use it as that seems to be their primary reason for using Affinity Designer and complaining about Adobe Illustrator.  Astute Graphics even has a second level of subscription software called Astui.  That's where they offer the one thing that I would actually like to use. The rest of their stuff hasn't impressed me enough to buy it.  Or I should say, buy it again.  I already own the CS3 AG plugins but AG cut off support for it completely and no longer allows you to use register or use it.  I'm still kind of pissed about that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Kuttyjoe said:

...Or I should say, buy it again.  I already own the CS3 AG plugins but AG cut off support for it completely and no longer allows you to use register or use it.  I'm still kind of pissed about that.

Interesting. With the new computer build I did a few months ago I haven't gotten around to reinstalling my CS6 Astute plugins I have. Wonder if they will work. Might to try...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, MikeW said:

Interesting. With the new computer build I did a few months ago I haven't gotten around to reinstalling my CS6 Astute plugins I have. Wonder if they will work. Might to try...

You can install but you can't register.  I emailed them and was told that my option was to upgrade to CC.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Kuttyjoe said:

Well, if AG actually did create a standalone vector program, it would be a subscription.  So I guess 99% of the people on this forum would not use it as that seems to be their primary reason for using Affinity Designer and complaining about Adobe Illustrator.  Astute Graphics even has a second level of subscription software called Astui.  That's where they offer the one thing that I would actually like to use. The rest of their stuff hasn't impressed me enough to buy it.  Or I should say, buy it again.  I already own the CS3 AG plugins but AG cut off support for it completely and no longer allows you to use register or use it.  I'm still kind of pissed about that.

Wrong. We still allow pre-subscription plugins to be installed and activated. Please contact our support. We no longer support CS6 or below actively with current or future releases. It's 8 years old already and the OS support is dubious for CS6 to say the least.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
59 minutes ago, Kuttyjoe said:

You can install but you can't register.  I emailed them and was told that my option was to upgrade to CC.

They don't't work without registration, though,  correct? It'll piss me off out of principle then.

I'm pretty busy and extremely tired right now so I'll wait until I have the mental energy to get miffed at Astute. Then I'll move on...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, NIcholas van der Walle said:

Wrong. We still allow pre-subscription plugins to be installed and activated. Please contact our support. We no longer support CS6 or below actively with current or future releases. It's 8 years old already and the OS support is dubious for CS6 to say the least.

Posting at the same time...thanks. That saves some future aggravation. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Kuttyjoe said:

So I guess 99% of the people on this forum would not use it as that seems to be their primary reason for using Affinity Designer and complaining about Adobe Illustrator.

Probably true, but I'm gonna be a total "suck-up" and just say that I actually use Affinity Designer because it's performance is pretty "through-the-roof" (it's really fast) and their tools are so much more intuitive. Most of Adobe's apps do not follow any sort of key mapping convention, so switching between the tools always means relearning, tool names change, workflows, functionality, etc

I understand when you have a difference in video editing tools, and 3D tools, but I don't understand the graphic design & editing tools can't be standardised this way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I absolutely love the Astute plugins, and paid many hundreds of dollars over time purchasing almost all of them. Then once a more recent MacOS came out (can't remember which one) they said they were no longer developing their stand-alone plugins and I had to now rebuy as none of mine would work any longer, and now I could only rent them as they only run on a subscription model. 

I get that as a developer having people only pay once forever doesn't help the long term needs of development. This is why I guess after a time some devs put out new versions of products, so they can get paid again for new features, but it gives the users of older versions the ability to keep using the older one if that's working for them. 

Instead, Astute wanted people to buy their plug-ins, and then moved to subscription model and none of my plug-ins would work any longer. Period. (Due to them choosing to go this route instead of making new versions which worked with the new macOS and just charging an upgrade fee or whatever.) 

Sucks that I have to rent software now, but that's life if you want the power of the plugins that Astute provides. And remember, I paid a lot of money for their plug-ins previously. I actually can't believe the Affinity products are so inexpensive, and wonder how they have the money to continue development, but maybe they are chasing institutions and getting more money that way. (Would be a ton cheaper for high-schools and colleges to buy site licenses from Serif than Adobe.) I'd pay even more for the Affinity suite if it cost more because I'd own it. I just don't like renting software.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Rees Maxwell said:

I absolutely love the Astute plugins, and paid many hundreds of dollars over time purchasing almost all of them. Then once a more recent MacOS came out (can't remember which one) they said they were no longer developing their stand-alone plugins and I had to now rebuy as none of mine would work any longer, and now I could only rent them as they only run on a subscription model. 

I get that as a developer having people only pay once forever doesn't help the long term needs of development. This is why I guess after a time some devs put out new versions of products, so they can get paid again for new features, but it gives the users of older versions the ability to keep using the older one if that's working for them. 

Instead, Astute wanted people to buy their plug-ins, and then moved to subscription model and none of my plug-ins would work any longer. Period. (Due to them choosing to go this route instead of making new versions which worked with the new macOS and just charging an upgrade fee or whatever.) 

Sucks that I have to rent software now, but that's life if you want the power of the plugins that Astute provides. And remember, I paid a lot of money for their plug-ins previously. I actually can't believe the Affinity products are so inexpensive, and wonder how they have the money to continue development, but maybe they are chasing institutions and getting more money that way. (Would be a ton cheaper for high-schools and colleges to buy site licenses from Serif than Adobe.) I'd pay even more for the Affinity suite if it cost more because I'd own it. I just don't like renting software.

I have never used Astute, not really sure what it is all about but life has been fine without it and I do not need nor want another subscription service. I NEED Adobe, which makes it suck that it is monthly subscription, but I am also getting regular updates, latest version of software and everyone else is getting the same so compatibility with native files is great. When I see subscription service I am immediately turned off and stopped reading about Astute when I saw that. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, Izzy said:

I doubt it, they don't really have Adobe by the balls, and it's the best add-on suite for illustrator. (in fact it's the only reason I have illustrator installed side by side with the Affinity Suite)
However, if Serif could achieve a lot of the same functionality right in their own suite that would always be better!

Astute is not built into Adobe products. This is very different. If Serif adds it into their software as a dependency, it would legitimately have to be for good for several reasons. The initial licensing might be fine, but very likely not if there are licensing arrangements over time for things like updates. That is where a bait and switch can happen and by that point, too late to revert back. For users who use Astute already, this is obviously not a big deal at all for them as it just becomes a very pleasing change from having to pay/sub(?) for a plugin. The pain would be from having to maintain a license if there are ever changes. If they decide to change the fee, fee structure, to change license or provide less support for the money, Serif can't just strip the feature and start over. They would have to make large enough change to the software to continue similar features without violating any trademarks. Easier said than done, a brief sail through the forums and we often see how people are sensitive to short-term/small changes. Anything long-term or major would damage relationships with long-term users unfortunately who have become dependent on those workflows. (See: Windows eight)  Otherwise why would Astute really do such a license?... just do an open-source license, etc. To me is just a greedy move no different than the way Adobe is currently doing their users. If Astute wants their product in Serif's software, then imho they can help them with plugin support.


Microsoft Windows 10 Home (Build 19041)
AMD Ryzen 5 3600 @ 3600Ghz; Mobo: Asus X470-PRO
32GB DDR4 (3000Mhz)
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060Ti 6GB
Monitor 1: 4K @ 150%
Monitor 2: 1080p @ 100%

WACOM Intuos4 Large; X-rite i1Display Pro; NIKON D5600 DSLR

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Please note the Annual Company Closure section in the Terms of Use. These are the Terms of Use you will be asked to agree to if you join the forum. | Privacy Policy | Guidelines | We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.