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Astute Graphics Technology


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I think passion runs deep/high on both sides of this and other issues. Which can lead to defending one's position and decisions.

While I would need to think hard about subscribing to Astute plugins for AD--should Serif actually build in the necessary support in the first place--should Astute then build them for AD.

If I was in the position of a plugin developer, I would think long and hard about doing so. But at this point, even if Serif had the requisite internal workings, I don't think so. Not any plugins of significant commercial value anyway. 

I currently spend a lot of money on Xtensions and plugins that cost far more in total than the upgrades to the main applications do. So I'm certainly not against spending money from a user's perspective. 

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When I read the word “emotional” in this discussion, I remembered some lessons from Chris Voss’ book (Never split the difference), in which he states that all decisions are emotion-driven.

So, saying that you have an emotional decision over this, is not a bad think, and the same can be said about Astute’s policy: there is an emotional driver on why they made this change. Fear of going bankrupt? Maybe.

Best regards!

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I've made my living in graphics since 1972. In using graphics software ever since its advent in the mid-80s. Two things I've learned to avoid like the plague, and will not tolerate:

  • Mission-critical dependency upon rented software. It's all for the vendor. What business wouldn't want to have its customers' work effectively held hostage by a continual rental payments scheme?
  • Mission-critical dependency upon third-party plug-ins. To my mind, this pie-in-the-sky software model failed long ago.

Users should counter the preached 'merits' of rented software licenses by pushing its claims to their logical conclusion: Why shouldn't we demand to only pay rent based upon the actual time the software is used instead of by the calendar?

JET

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To get back on point, has there been any progress here? I am using affinity for clothes pattern drafting, but really need to measure lines and curves. I am loathe to subscribe to illustrator as I hate their subscription policy, would love to be able to use VectorScribe (which measures paths) from astute graphics but are we still not able to use plugins 3 yrs on from this original thread? 

It seems like a simple tool that would benefit many, and I know Designer already - I don't want to go to a CAD system or Adobe. but at this rate, the software seems unwilling to bend, and I don't understand why. In fact many of the plugins Astute Grpahics offer look great, and all Affinity need do is allow 3rd party plugins. What is the problem?

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  • Staff

Hi @laurelien,
Welcome to affinity Forums :)
Astute Graphics plugins (and all other Illustrator plugins/addons) use Adobe Illustrator SDK/scripting API's to extend its functionality. They were developed/written with Illustrator in mind and are not compatible with Affinity Designer core functionality (there's no feature parity between the two apps). For this to happen we would have to publish/develop our own API's/offer scripting support so third parties could also extend Affinity apps. This is something we may consider for the future but for now there's no way around it.

 

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3 hours ago, Fixx said:

Are AG plugins really subscription based? It seems subscription is only for updates and licences stay, or am I mistaken?

This discussion is of course academical as long as Designer has no plugin capabilities. 

Fixx,

Read the initial post in this thread. As I understand it, It's about pressuring Serif, not users, to license Astute Graphics's code in order to add it to Affinity's standard feature set, not necessarily as a plug-in. That is very specific. None of us on the user side knows how that kind of back-end deal between Serif and Astute Graphics would actually translate to us or our wallets or to the future development direction of Affinity.

This is not the same thing as a general request for Serif to add a plug-in architecture to Affinity like those in other drawing programs, so as to turn it into a platform that encourages any third-party commercial developers who want to, to create add-on plug-ins bought separately by users who want them.

As mentioned earlier, I consider it folly to develop habituated dependency upon third-party plug-ins, especially for freelancers. That's why my 'user vote' for that would be no. I'd rather Serif focus on truly elegant innovation in 2D vector-based drawing.

On the other hand, I would very much favor Serif's developing a scripting object model to empower users to create (and share, if we wish) our own functionality using a non-proprietary scripting language like JavaScript—when the time is right for that. That's something I would definitely use. But that is an entirely other subject from the matter of Serif making a specific back-end agreement with a specific plug-in developer to license incorporating that developer's code into the standard feature set of the program, which we would all then be paying for, whether we want it or not.

And I agree with those who have opined that it is rather inappropriate for that developer to be using this Affinity user-feedback forum as a platform to foster demand for whatever that private business agreement between Serif and Astute Graphics might actually entail.

JET

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21 hours ago, MEB said:

Hi @laurelien,
Welcome to affinity Forums :)
Astute Graphics plugins (and all other Illustrator plugins/addons) use Adobe Illustrator SDK/scripting API's to extend its functionality. They were developed/written with Illustrator in mind and are not compatible with Affinity Designer core functionality (there's no feature parity between the two apps). For this to happen we would have to publish/develop our own API's/offer scripting support so third parties could also extend Affinity apps. This is something we may consider for the future but for now there's no way around it.

 

Thanks for this, MEB. It's good to know why at least. Sorry if I underplayed the difficulty of extension. I guess I'm just frustrated as I'm an affinity fan.  I know this feature would be so helpful for future users, as an API would benefit many plugins not just astute graphics, and lastly can I recommend adding a feature to measure paths both lines and curves, as that is what started this query. Unfortunately, whilst being a huge fan of affinity, have had to subscribe to adobe (yuck) in order to make my vector-based sewing patterns and will use astute graphics plugins (VectorScribe mainly). :O(  I hate supporting Adobe in any way. However, I will continue to do some work in Designer to keep current, and keep an eye out on your update news -  hopefully one day you will extend the range of features. Thanks :)

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On 8/31/2020 at 7:25 PM, JET_Affinity said:

I've made my living in graphics since 1972. In using graphics software ever since its advent in the mid-80s. Two things I've learned to avoid like the plague, and will not tolerate:

  • Mission-critical dependency upon rented software. It's all for the vendor. What business wouldn't want to have its customers' work effectively held hostage by a continual rental payments scheme?
  • Mission-critical dependency upon third-party plug-ins. To my mind, this pie-in-the-sky software model failed long ago.

Users should counter the preached 'merits' of rented software licenses by pushing its claims to their logical conclusion: Why shouldn't we demand to only pay rent based upon the actual time the software is used instead of by the calendar?

JET

I can't agree more about this. 

About the dependency for 3rd party plugin, i don't think people would use plugin as the essential tool to do the work, but more like dependency in terms of some people who tried it and know that it very effective to tackle some tedious repetitive work significantly faster and doesn't hurt anybody, they will get used to it. when doing something that could take 1 hour to do manually VS doing it in just less than 10 clicks is going to change their mindset, also to their scheduling and finally productivity. no stress, less focus and energy consumption that makes us tired slowly draining our mood and creative energy. rather than using that energy  for that, then people can use that energy to more fun, creative and productive stuffs. that's the point of technology development and advancement. 

and yes i agree about that last point about rent based on the actual time usage, it should be the way to go to software/plugin rent/subscription based. because they're are not like a cars that if the item is available the rent company they could rent it to somebody else to make profit, also plugins don't wear no matter how many times they're used or left unused. codes don't just break down and need maintenance, no oil change needed. because it's not like we use it 24/7. but in the end of the day, as consumer i will always prefer when i pay for something to have, to use, to bring anywhere, anytime, it should be mine until i transfer the ownership to someone else. because it's just not fair to someone who unfortunately doesn't earn much and consistently to sustain it. after they save up/sacrifices a good amount to get it, it should be belong to them.

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On 9/1/2020 at 9:38 PM, MEB said:

Hi @laurelien,
Welcome to affinity Forums :)
Astute Graphics plugins (and all other Illustrator plugins/addons) use Adobe Illustrator SDK/scripting API's to extend its functionality. They were developed/written with Illustrator in mind and are not compatible with Affinity Designer core functionality (there's no feature parity between the two apps). For this to happen we would have to publish/develop our own API's/offer scripting support so third parties could also extend Affinity apps. This is something we may consider for the future but for now there's no way around it.

 

thanks for the information. maybe just don't consider it and simply develop the same or even better way to do stuffs like what AG offers and make it 1 time purchase only. 😋

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  • 11 months later...
  • 9 months later...
On 8/29/2020 at 9:01 AM, Boldlinedesign said:

@NIcholas van der Walle I understand you are here representing Astute in the Affinity forum and you're only going to say certain things based on what they want you to say. Arguing the case for subscription services with Astute plugins to a group of Affinity enthusiasts who support Serif in large part because they despise subscriptions comes across a bit tone deaf. . I've spoken to Dave Clayton directly about my dislike of Adobe going to subscription only and AG following suite. He understood where I was coming from.
Much like hearing a salesman try to entice a buyer with the "low monthly costs forever" the subscription model favors the company over their customers. Could I pay 600 dollars or more for Adobe CC plus another 120 for AG? Sure... but what justifies that cost? There would need to be dramatic improvements and growth all year and every year before I ever considered that option. Are the improvements and options added each year worth 720 or more dollars annually? Not in my book. Just because you could find ways to justify the cost does not make it a worthy investment.
Most features in Adobe and I would assume AG do not change dramatically from year to year. I still work professionally with my copy of CS6 and my purchased standalone AG plugins. Each year I've done this, I've saved over 700 per year. I used to upgrade my Adobe Suite once every couple versions because even those were overpriced and I bought and upgraded my plugins as I saw need. I would have gladly upgraded both Adobe and AG since CS6 was released, but there's no option for me when they only offer subscription models. You may chalk it up to being an "emotional" choice - but I avoid any subscription-only software like the plague. When apps I use announce they are going to subscription only, I ask for a standalone upgrade - some have offered it. If they refuse, I move on to find another application to support that is not subscription based. I do not want to give subscription-only apps any financial compensation because it would only encourage them to continue what I believe is an immoral practice. It's about standing by my principals for what is fair to the customers. I can understand subscriptions if there is real time data and information made available all the time that requires consistent funding. That is not the case with Adobe for sure - they can barely improve the existing tools and the software has become so bloated.
I understand its a solid deal for some companies that would upgrade annually regardless- so why not offer more than one sales option?
Many companies are finding a balance by offering either a lifetime upgrade initial price alongside the subscription model or they offer it as a standalone and if you want updates from that version you pay the upgrade cost. Instead of dismissing those who dislike the subscription model, why not encourage Astute to offer standalone options again? Especially if Affinity opens up their framework to allow plugins.

Very well articulated! Exactly my thought and I couldn't have written it better.

Looks like AG has also become a sad example of subscription model ... most of their useful plugins are from the pre-CS6 era - when many useful and exciting new plugins were developed rapidly. Sad to see there's been hardly any new useful features/plugins in last 4-5 years (or more) ... there's lot less motivation for the developers to bring in new features with the subscription model. 



 

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11 hours ago, saikat said:

Very well articulated! Exactly my thought and I couldn't have written it better.

Looks like AG has also become a sad example of subscription model ... most of their useful plugins are from the pre-CS6 era - when many useful and exciting new plugins were developed rapidly. Sad to see there's been hardly any new useful features/plugins in last 4-5 years (or more) ... there's lot less motivation for the developers to bring in new features with the subscription model.

Opposite. Our ability to release innovative new tools and features has more than doubled due to the removal of barriers to access (who owns what, what version they are on, what the cost/upgrade path would be, etc.). This has resulted in 25 pages of update notes since our transition in September 2019:
https://astutegraphics.com/support/technical-updates

Highlights for major, innovative and popular new tools include:

...plus hundreds of customer- and AG-led smaller updates such as live squircular corners, Splatter and Architect live effects, improved one-click artwork/document clean-up operations, additional downloadable resources, vastly improved deployment software and all the usual stuff you'd expect like quick M1 native updates, etc.

I hope that clarifies what benefits our subscribers see as opposed to what was stated above.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Well, after years since last time I came around this topic, some opinions about subscription based purchase model came up. For me it's not a big deal, everyone has the right to choose to buy or not. My point is that, affinity should expose their software's plugin API. As you can see the current functionality of Affinity Suite is some what limited from some aspects. If we have an open SDK, we can have plugins charged or free from developers or users to fill the gap. 

BTW, it's quiet about several months. Maybe affinity's about to drop a big update?

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