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Bungle

Rotate doesn't work properly (Blurred) AP

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This has nothing to do with the version, only with the pixel alignment of the line on the canvas & its cap type:

 

Try setting the cap to "Butt Cap," make sure "Force Pixel Alignment" is enabled, & if "Move By Whole Pixels" is also enabled that the x & y coordinates shown in the Transform panel are whole pixel values with no decimal fractions before moving the line.

 

Otherwise, the line will not be pixel-aligned, resulting in the anti-aliasing effect you see.


Affinity Photo 1.8.3, Affinity Designer 1.8.3, Affinity Publisher 1.8.3; macOS Mojave 10.14.6 iMac (27-inch, Late 2012); 2.9GHz i5 CPU; NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660M; 8GB RAM
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WTF, i only want to do some basic pixel imagery like in previous version, now i have to change this that and the other, yes it is to do with versions, this used to just work !!

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56 minutes ago, Bungle said:

WTF, i only want to do some basic pixel imagery like in previous version, now i have to change this that and the other, yes it is to do with versions, this used to just work !!

As far as I know, & certainly in my own experience, it has always worked like this in every version.


Affinity Photo 1.8.3, Affinity Designer 1.8.3, Affinity Publisher 1.8.3; macOS Mojave 10.14.6 iMac (27-inch, Late 2012); 2.9GHz i5 CPU; NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660M; 8GB RAM
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Oh sorry, i thought posting (AP) in the title would show i mean't Affinity Photo, my mistake, this is a painted line, not a vector line

 

EDIT* Hmm i did put Affinity photo in the original post too, maybe i should have said painted line too, again i apologise, but this behaviour is still very poor, a 1 pixel line shouldnt blur when being rotated, vector or painted ;)

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1 hour ago, Bungle said:

... but this behaviour is still very poor, a 1 pixel line shouldnt blur when being rotated, vector or painted ;)

I think what you are talking about is anti-aliasing, which will occur to prevent the brush stroke (which is not resolution-independent like a vector line would be) from having jagged, pixelated edges. If that is what you want instead, use the Pixel Tool for that. Set to 1 px width, you will get something like this:

5a4bba062a61e_1pxPixel.png.61087e024198f4c7c51d9cb5a3ed96be.png

This is inherent in raster imaging -- either the stroke is anti-aliased to make it look smoother or it is not, producing jagged edges anywhere the path is not exactly horizontal or vertical. That is because a pixel can only be filled with one color -- there is no way to fill part of a pixel with one color & another part with another color.


Affinity Photo 1.8.3, Affinity Designer 1.8.3, Affinity Publisher 1.8.3; macOS Mojave 10.14.6 iMac (27-inch, Late 2012); 2.9GHz i5 CPU; NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660M; 8GB RAM
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1 hour ago, Bungle said:

a 1 pixel line shouldnt blur when being rotated

Even if its position after rotation is 1/2 pixels?

Therefore, it is necessary enabled "Force Pixel Alignment".

It is not "blur", but "antialiasing". 


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Oh man, are you guys not getting it, it was force aligned, it was rotated exactly 90 degrees, so it cant anti alias, how can a square pixel rotated 90 degrees antialias, or has every piece of software that ever existed before affinity including the software by the same developers always been doing it wrong, its a bug, simple as that.

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2 hours ago, Bungle said:

Oh man, are you guys not getting it, it was force aligned, it was rotated exactly 90 degrees, so it cant anti alias ...

I am still not sure how you drew the dashed red pixel shape, but I think I can explain the behavior you are seeing:

 

When you use the Arrange menu > Rotate 90° Clockwise or Rotate 90° Counter-clockwise, the pixel shape will be rotated around its center. But if it is 1 px wide & it is pixel-aligned, its vertical center is half way between its left & right edges, which of necessity is at a ½ pixel location. If it is an even number of pixels high, its horizontal center will be at a whole pixel location; if an odd number it will be at a ½ pixel location. If this is unclear, consider the two examples below showing a 1px X 30px pixel shape on the left & 1px X 31px one on the right.

 

Note the last horizontal guide position, which marks the horizontal rotation center, 105 & 104.5 px respectively.

5a4bfd0dacfe1_30pxx1px.png.f3c8cbea48cf8a16e9c3ae644f70b69b.png       5a4bfd13af8ed_31pxx1px.png.a58fff0ccc4f2a456b92cf0cf4084dbf.png

So when the 30px high shape is rotated 90° it will no longer be centered on a ½ pixel location, while the 31px will be. The 30px shape would have to be rotated not on its center but on one of its vertical edges to prevent anti-aliasing; the 31px shape does not (because its center is on a ½ px location).

 

This is not the easiest thing to explain, but I think if you experiment a bit with even & odd height pixel shapes & Arrange > Rotate 90° Clockwise or Rotate 90° Counter-clockwise you will see what I mean.

 

Anyway, as I said in an earlier post, as far as I know this nothing new. It has always worked this way in every Affinity version.


Affinity Photo 1.8.3, Affinity Designer 1.8.3, Affinity Publisher 1.8.3; macOS Mojave 10.14.6 iMac (27-inch, Late 2012); 2.9GHz i5 CPU; NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660M; 8GB RAM
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@Bungle I get you.

 

So it can be avoided, but it requires some special attention on our part. Sorry, you're not gonna like it :|..... and I think it's always been this way.

 

The problem is, was and has been that using Force Pixel/Whole Pixel (FPWP from here on out) is sometimes good but also sometimes bad because half pixels are really important in these cases.

So there are 4 ways to get a pristine 1 pixel line (to be honest, I'm not exactly sure how you painted the dashed line in your example. Every brush I use set to 1px and 100 hardness doesn't get me a sharp line. Anyway):

1,2 & 3) Drawn Marquee and Pixel Tool and Rectangle shape tool. These are fine to get the original line. FPWP is your friend here. But if you want to rotate them 90° the original line has to have an odd # of pixels in length. The reason is because when you rotate an even pixel length line the center line once rotated now falls in between pixels and the render engine doesn't know how to resolve that. Which pixel should it choose to color, the left or the right? So it does a little bit on each side. Now you have to nudge it back into whole pixel status. (And I guess I also now have to write....When you rotate an odd length line the center falls in the middle of a pixel. The render engine is very happy with this as there is only one pixel to choose from.)

 

5a4bfcd306629_ScreenShot2018-01-02at4_27_17PM.png.99b74a4c61110a99e8e5c3df6115ffb2.png 5a4bfcd13dfc7_ScreenShot2018-01-02at4_27_30PM.png.5891d4353ca1c0f488a5f52d622a1207.png

 

4 ) PEN TOOL: This is the same problem but in reverse. Here FPWP works against you in the beginning. The nodes snap to a pixel corner. So that means the original 1 px line is going to be centered in between pixels and blurry (btw a 2px line works great). If you don't have FPWP on you can place nodes wherever but it's hard to be perfectly in the middle of a pixel. In this case you can place a guide with precision and snap to that (I told you you weren't going to like it....). If you rotate the original blurry line, and it's an odd length, it'll become sharp..... except for the top and bottom which will have to be nudged (this is the case for both odd and even lengths. But a Square end cap type will fix the ends issue. ). 

 

Oh, and PShop has it's issues too O.o.

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As usual, @JimmyJack has explained something much more clearly & lucidly than I ever could. :(

 

But at least we agree that it has always been this way, that it is not something new introduced in the last update, so there is no point in trying to install an older version of the app.


Affinity Photo 1.8.3, Affinity Designer 1.8.3, Affinity Publisher 1.8.3; macOS Mojave 10.14.6 iMac (27-inch, Late 2012); 2.9GHz i5 CPU; NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660M; 8GB RAM
Affinity Photo 
1.8.3.180 & Affinity Designer 1.8.3.2 for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 13.3.1

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16 hours ago, R C-R said:

clearly & lucidly

 

Ha! I don't know about that :D. I'm still a little dizzy....

 

Well, it's certainly always been an issue. But maybe they did change/tweak something.. who knows.

Heck a bunch of things have popped in and out version to version. We (mac) just got back the ability to snap marquees to guides. And I remember in one of the updates the little carrot sliders on text paths were dead.

I'm away from Pshop atm, but I think sometimes when confronted with a straddle situation it picks a side rather than going with mush on both. Not saying that's better or worse.... but maybe an earlier version had something like that???

 

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