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GregS

Colour space of Canon RAW not recognised

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Affinity seems to be assuming that my Canon RAW (EOS M) files have a colour space of sRGB, despite the fact that they are really in Adobe RGB. The reason I say this is that if I enable colour space conversion warnings, and set my working space to Adobe RGB, it does warn me that it is converting from sRGB to Adobe RGB. 

Does affinity support colour spaces other than sRGB in RAW files? If not, is there a way I can assign the correct space manually in the Develop persona? (I can't seem to find a way to do this)

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Hi Greg, at first I thought you may have been referring to issues when opening JPEGs tagged with Adobe RGB. I've also had this issue with Olympus JPEGs and it's because the colour space can be tagged a number of ways in the EXIF data. It's possibly the Interoperability Index which the upcoming 1.6 release will recognise.

 

However, I then realised that you're referring to having "Convert opened files to working space" checked, and this also affects the Develop Persona. Truth be told, I'm not convinced it should actually be doing this - Photo's RAW editing is performed in 32-bit float with a wide linear colour space, and in this sense a working colour space is somewhat arbitrary. However, for a closer match initially to the in-camera results, make sure you set the "32bit RGB Colour Profile" instead of "RGB Colour Profile" to Adobe RGB. This will change the way the colour values are initially assigned. Don't forget, however, that you can enable the Profiles option and change your output profile (which is what Photo converts to when you click Develop). By default, Photo will convert to whatever your normal "RGB Colour Profile" is set to - usually sRGB.

 

Apologies as your query threw me at first - RAW files don't have a set colour space, they come in as scene-referred and are mapped to a colour profile during the development process, which in Photo's case is a linear ROMM RGB profile (otherwise known as ProPhoto). Typically, with default settings, the colour space is then clipped and rounded to sRGB when the Develop button is clicked, but you can of course change this; either individually by using the Profiles option, or by changing the default colour profile in Preferences>Colour.

 

Hope that helps!


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James,

Thanks, but I don't think you understand the situation fully. It's very simple - Affinity seems to think that my RAW files have been captured in the sRGB colour space, and this is a problem regardless of what my working space is, because it won't be able to properly convert the image into my working space if it's converting FROM the wrong colour space (sRGB).  So, again, if I'm right about this, obviously it would be nice if this is fixed, but in the mean time, is there a way I can manually assign the Adobe RGB space to my RAW images in the Develop persona?

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James,

Apologies - I didn't read your post fully.

I think you are incorrect regarding RAW files not being in a set colour space. How on earth can the software interpret the raw data, unless it knows what colour space the raw data is in? As I said, my RAW files are in Adobe RGB. I configured that in my camera, and the Canon software (Digital Photo Professional) reports this too.

 

Just by the way, even if I don't convert the raw to my working space, Affinity still has to do a conversion to the monitor profile in use. If it thinks my raw images are in sRGB, this conversion will be inaccurate.

 

Note also that the colours displayed by Affinity don't match the Canon software. I don't know whether it's only because of this issue, but I'd like to address this issue first.

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James,

After doing a bit of research, it seems you are CORRECT - RAW files do NOT have a colour space. In theory, then, there should be a way for us to enter the characteristics of the R, G, & B filters in the Bayer filter, so that we have a more accurate starting point with which to interpret the raw data. Maybe the Bayer filter data is substantially the same across different brands & models of camera?

 

Anyway, if there is no profile associated with the RAW image, why does Affinity even allow me to do a conversion to my working space? Remember, it does warn me that it is converting from sRGB to Adobe RGB. (I had set Adobe RGB to be my working space)

 

I think I'm better off using Canon software to do the developing, because presumably Canon do have some kind of "profile" for the camera, the data for which is not stored in the RAW file. I.e, they would have intimate knowledge of the sensor, the colour filter array, and how the sensor data is processed etc etc.

 

Regarding the Canon software reporting Adobe RGB, apparently the colour profile that is stored is independent of the RAW data - it's used in conjunction with the embedded JPEG preview. 

 

I note with interest that Adobe Camera RAW (and Lightroom) do have profiles for different cameras. If a camera isn't in their database, it warns you.  https://www.color-management-guide.com/color-management-and-camera-raw.html

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Sorry for for the multiple replies, but this is important. Affinity doesn't actually say that it converted FROM sRGB to Adobe RGB - it just says it converted TO Adobe RGB, without any mention of the source colour space. . So this may be a storm in a teacup - it is presumably converting from the *camera's* profile to Adobe RGB, which of course would be the correct thing to do.  Sorry for wasting your time! I understand that the camera's "profile" may not be in the form of an ICC profile - it's just data in some form that allows Affinity to interpret the raw file.

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There's just one thing that I'm still concerned about. If I set my working space to sRGB, Affinity actually does NOT warn me about converting to my working space, even though I still have conversion warnings enabled. This makes me wonder whether Affinity is actually treating the RAW file as if it were in sRGB, which it almost certainly is not.  So, I'm still not convinced all this is working properly.

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