Affinity products for Linux

[Kamei Kojirou]

3 minutes ago, Kajac said:

I partially disagree with what you're saying.

SERIF is fully capable of providing support to run.

Even if it is using Linux X, with kernel X and with minimum hardware X.

PlayOnLinux and Lutris are here!

Regarding performance, there's nowhere to flee, both in windows and macOS have limitations, especially if we take into account the end user's hardware!

----------------------------

Anyway, for users who defend against, I still don't see any sense in it! Why don't you want it to run on linux?

Support costs time, money, and resources. There is no such thing as minimal support. It's either supported or not. If people pay for a product they are going to rightfully expect it to work with full support. All that being said it needs to make sense business-wise to them. Trust me, it's not as easy as just lightly sorting it out on PlayonLinux and Lutris. There is a reason they have different versions and operating systems on listed on WINEHQ. This isn't just about hitting a few toggles and making it work on all Distros. WineHQ and Proton are working miracles but you need to keep in mind most games have somewhat similar requirements, which is why you are likely under the impression this would be a quick and easy process as support for games seems to quick these days. Support and workarounds will come eventually to Wine, but it will come from those communities, and likely not Serif. The reason Affinity line isn't working properly right now there some core dlls that aren't supported yet in WINE. I'm not defending against Affinity coming to Linux, but it needs to make sense. I say that as a full-time user of Linux and someone who has bought Photo, Designer, and Publisher and not using them in favor of native alternatives on Linux and would likely buy Affinity Photo again if it had full Linux support.

[walt.farrell]

37 minutes ago, Kajac said:

Why don't you want it to run on linux?

I would be happy for it to run on Linux, under Wine, if the Wine community can make it happen.

 

 

[The Letter M]

On 10/2/2017 at 9:48 AM, - S - said:

The market share doubled in two months, which seems odd. Perhaps it's all those system admins downloading Ubuntu/openSUSE/SLES from the Windows Store and playing with Linux subsystem on Windows.   However, it's worth bearing in mind not just market share in absolute numbers, but also the popularity of Mac's amongst creatives and in the creative industry, which market share alone doesn't reflect.

 

As a Linux admin myself, I see a lot of kids who run Linux in Virtualbox too.

[msdobrescu]

I trust this: https://truelist.co/blog/linux-statistics/

I believe this is paid by the Linux Corporation: https://www.fortunebusinessinsights.com/linux-operating-system-market-103037

[Komatös]

Don't trust any statistics that you haven't falsified yourself. 🤣

Why hasn't Microsoft ported its Office Suite to Linux long ago, even though it would be easy to use the Mac version for it? Why doesn't Steinberg develop their music editing programmes for Linux?  Well, because there are too few customers who would pay for it.

[Pšenda]

For some, these two completely different terms are difficult to distinguish.

26 minutes ago, Komatös said:

Well, because there are too few customers who would pay for it.

On 6/20/2022 at 11:15 AM, MattyWS said:

in all fairness, the number of linux users is in the several billions

 

P.S. The number of users mentioned in the context of potential Photoshop users is particularly funny.

 

[msdobrescu]

3 hours ago, Komatös said:

Don't trust any statistics that you haven't falsified yourself. 🤣

Why hasn't Microsoft ported its Office Suite to Linux long ago, even though it would be easy to use the Mac version for it? Why doesn't Steinberg develop their music editing programmes for Linux?  Well, because there are too few customers who would pay for it.

No idea about Steinberg, MS Office I don't need as LibreOffice has all I need. Also RawTherapee or DarkTable and Hugin are fine, I just need a better panorama application and Photoshop was so good so far. The irony is Photoshop works fine under Linux, its integration with the logon is the problem, technically, to run it under Wine.

[Komatös]

And yet Photoshop is and remains a desktop application for Windows or macOS. And wine is just an emulator that doesn't even come close to the performance of a native application.

And all the other applications you listed are OSS and free. The developers of these programs are mostly working here on a voluntary basis. But Serif and Adobe have to make money. And with OSS it is like with a commercial kitchen .... many cooks spoil the broth.

[msdobrescu]

Well, if you wonder how did I got using them, is not because they are free.

At the time, as student, I used MS Office to write my papers, eventually I was writing a book to help my fellow students use Visual FoxPro. I was organizing it, doing complex layouts, adding images etc.. After 300 pages, it simply broke. All the stuff went mixed. A glitch in MS Office. I have rearranged it, it blew again. This time I had backup copies.

So I have tried StarOffice. Was great and did the same things. Was not free at the time, there was no much Internet, I have payed the shipping and the media too. But switched away from MS Office. So it began. I use LibreOffice now, even for backward compatibility with old MS Office documents that can't be opened anymore with the current versions.

The other apps were also done with a reason, a need not related to the no need of no cost to access it. They are doing things in their ways to achieve specific goals. They are more precise in some regards. For a photography hobbyist is enough. I've seen pros using them too. Even for stock photography. Let's say its a momentum to still use PS, but not a true necessity.

Also the freedom. The system does not spend resources on metering and assessing the user, while the user pays for that. Not to mention selling this data. And you don't own your copy as it can be revoked and not even refunded or may lose access to your work too.

Usually, when you pay for software, it's clear what you need, because you start asking for specific features. FOSS is more open, there you find more requests, the help the community to express. It's also imperfect, but I find it more reliable in matter of expectations. If I ask a paid software maker do I get what I ask for? Not necessarily. So I chose based on my needs, not on the price or the fact that if I pay for it would be a warranty of some sort.

[MattyWS]

16 minutes ago, Komatös said:

And yet Photoshop is and remains a desktop application for Windows or macOS. And wine is just an emulator that doesn't even come close to the performance of a native application.

I hate to be that guy but wine isn't an emulator, it's literally in the name. Applications running through wine vary from being borked to actually running faster via wine linux than on windows natively. Wine will only really get better and more efficient over time. Protons the same, in some games I play, playing via proton on linux yields better performance with far more FPS, much to my surprise. It's magic to me as I have no idea really how it works but it's just a translation layer, not an emulator (which usually require your hardware specs be far beyond that of the platform you're trying to emulate).

[LondonSquirrel]

2 hours ago, msdobrescu said:

No idea about Steinberg, MS Office I don't need as LibreOffice has all I need. LAso RawTherapee or DarkTable and Hugin are fine, I just need a better panorama application and Photoshop was so good so far. The irony is Photoshop works fine under Linux, its integration with the logon is the problem, technically, to run it under Wine.

Photoshop on Linux? Yes, that has been requested of Adobe with exactly the same sort of comments seen in this thread. Use Valve, use this, rewrite it in QT,... Go and take a look if you want to read more of the same: https://community.adobe.com/t5/photoshop-ecosystem-discussions/photoshop-for-linux/td-p/8323958 and https://community.adobe.com/t5/photoshop-ecosystem-ideas/p-provide-support-for-linux/idc-p/5323961/page/4#M12789. Even when Adobe state, much like Affinity, that they have no plans for Photoshop on Linux, the thread continues. Some people will not take no for an answer and just move on.

 

[msdobrescu]

@LondonSquirrel, don't twist what I say. The problem is using a core system component which is missing from Wine, not Photoshop.

[LondonSquirrel]

26 minutes ago, msdobrescu said:

@LondonSquirrel, don't twist what I say. The problem is using a core system component which is missing from Wine, not Photoshop.

It's not twisting at all. I am merely pointing out that a Linux version of Photoshop has been requested, and that request has been denied. Yet the thread still goes on.

[msdobrescu]

47 minutes ago, LondonSquirrel said:

It's not twisting at all. I am merely pointing out that a Linux version of Photoshop has been requested, and that request has been denied. Yet the thread still goes on.

Photoshop works, other component is the problem, that is part of Windows. Once that is implemented in Wine, Photoshop works fine under. Unfortunately, Affinity Photo does not.

[wonderings]

19 hours ago, Kajac said:

I partially disagree with what you're saying.

SERIF is fully capable of providing support to run.

Even if it is using Linux X, with kernel X and with minimum hardware X.

PlayOnLinux and Lutris are here!

Regarding performance, there's nowhere to flee, both in windows and macOS have limitations, especially if we take into account the end user's hardware!

----------------------------

Anyway, for users who defend against, I still don't see any sense in it! Why don't you want it to run on linux?

I don't think anyone does not want it to run in Linux, myself and others are pointing out why it probably does not make sense for Serif to develop their software for Linux. I think it would be great to have more options despite not using Linux myself. On the business side of things I don't think it makes sense. 

[wonderings]

On 6/22/2022 at 2:51 PM, MattyWS said:

I disagree.. every company has to consider the pros and cons of platforms and how much money they need to spend on staffing. We've established Linux is used by a lot of the creative industry as well so I think it's fair to compare other companies that make creative softwares to this company that also makes creative softwares and just because Adobe does or doesn't do something doesn't mean anything more or less for Serif.

 

You say adobe don't develop for linux so why should serif? Well Adobe also specialize in 3D, game development, film production, music etc etc so if Serif are copying them then maybe they should waste money on making software like that too, right? Either they copy Adobe or they don't I don't think you can have it both ways. This may just be a difference in opinion but Serif have said they don't want to be compared to Adobe. I mean if we're going there then why even use Affinity products at all if Adobe exists? Serif *need* to do things differently to Adobe to stand out otherwise they may as well not exist.

The numbers of professionals who use Affinity Photo compared to Photoshop are probably on par with the numbers of people who use Windows or Linux. May as well expand into a new platform where Adobe doesn't exist.

Anyways this really comes down to opinions in the end. Other companies have thrived while making a Linux version of their software I don't think it will kill Serif, but ultimately it's their choice and heck, Serif already make choices that are extreme opposites of what I'd consider good (no good alpha/channel editing? No real support for channel packing? Basic stuff people need that serif claim no one needs and so they don't want to include it). Nothing I or anyone can do other than voice their wants and needs and it's on the whim of serif to decide to listen or not.

I dont think I or anyone else needs to convince the forum users here if Linux is a good idea. You guys are entitled to like Windows or Mac and nothing else but it's still super weird how passionate some people are about hating Linux for no gain.

You disagree that every company is different? You have no clue what spending is like internally, what they prioritize in terms of staffing from developers, techs, IT, CSR's, sales, etc. Every company is the same in that they all have similar roles to fill, but how the do it and what they prioritize will be very different. 

Not sure what your point is regarding Adobe. Adobe makes the 3 big apps that Serif has offered alternatives too: Indesign, Illustrator and Photoshop. Adobe decided it was not worth developing for Linux and I am assuming that it is because it does not predict the returns to be worth the money that would be put in to developing and supporting Adobe CC on Linux. Serif cannot avoid being compared to Adobe as again, they are making direct competing software of Adobe's big 3 apps. Serif is going after a different market than Adobe. Adobe is not made for the home user who wants some reasonable design tools and options at an affordable price. Adobe is the standard in many industries and made for the pro user, pro user as in people who make their living with the Adobe software. Serif is no slouch, but they are not Adobe and not in a place for most to give up a standard and all the great things that come with Adobe CC. If I was working on my own, just doing my own poster printing for people out of my house I would go with Serif for sure. In the print/design world where standards matter and equipment is made to work with Adobe, and you need accurate file reproduction as well as collaboration, Adobe is it. 

I am sure there are lots of things missing or people would like changed. I don't use the Affinity apps for work though I bought all 3 to check them out and see how they compare and if it would be something we could ever switch to at work. Serif has done some amazing work and produced some high quality software for most people at a very affordable price, I find it hard to complain about lack of features considering the price point.

Serif has made it clear they are not developing or planning to develop for Linux, the market is small and I am assuming Serif does not see great gains for the effort it will take to support a Linux option. And again, I don't think anyone is hating Linux, there is no passion for not developing for Linux. What there is is reason, and I would say the passion is on the other hand in the Linux community who just can't accept that developing for them would not be profitable. 

 

 

 

[LondonSquirrel]

1 hour ago, wonderings said:

Serif has done some amazing work and produced some high quality software for most people at a very affordable price

Including updates for several years now, at no extra charge. Some people may say say the updates are adding "missing" features, and that is true to some extent. But they are still updates included in the initial price.

[MattyWS]

Its great that Affinity Suite is affordable and that they don't charge per month, year, per seat or per update but at the same time IMO Affinity is worth more than they charge. I think charging less than it's worth then excusing themselves for not being able to afford to add  features would be kind of self fullfilling.

They certainly don't have all the features that photoshop has but they do make questionable decisions with the features they do have. It's not a perfect software solution yet but it can be. I find it strange on their part that they refuse to at least try to compete with photoshop (which they've actually said specifically that they are not competing, maybe to avoid being curb stomped by the giant corporation).

They could compete in non-direct ways though, like getting their suite to platforms where Adobe doesn't exist and fixing some fundamental issues that are holding back the software. For example when asked if they could make alpha editing and channel packing easier for literally anyone doing anything other than photography, they simply state "no, we don't cater to those industries (vfx, television, games). it seems mind boggling that they could cater to these with small tweaks. Linux is a far greater ask for sure, but Serif is already stubborn on the little things and adamant that they're not for anything other than a really specific set of industries. Point being that Affinity could be so much more and make so much more money, cater to far more creative industries but they don't. You could say it's because it would cost more to do so, well they should charge more IMO.

[Renzatic]

On 6/24/2022 at 3:36 AM, Komatös said:

And yet Photoshop is and remains a desktop application for Windows or macOS. And wine is just an emulator that doesn't even come close to the performance of a native application.

WINE Is Not an Emulator! It's even says so in the name!

Though WINE is fairly performant compared to their Windows counterpart. You usually get native, or 99% native performance out of applications running through it. On rare occasions, you actually get better performance.

[Snapseed]

On 6/20/2022 at 10:15 AM, MattyWS said:

in all fairness, the number of linux users is in the several billions (that were able to be counted, which is quite difficult to count when linux typically doen't track users). How many of those people need a photo editor I dont know but it'd be unfair to say there's only a few hundred.

This is where there is an unfortunate Catch 22 situation. I have heard this so many times, "I'd like to move over to Linux but I need X, Y, and Z software to do my work" where X is Affinity Photo/Adobe Photoshop, Y is Affinity Designer/Adobe Illustrator and Z is Affinity Publisher/Adobe InDesign and even just working well with Wine would meet the needs of those people.

On 6/23/2022 at 6:48 PM, walt.farrell said:

I would be happy for it to run on Linux, under Wine, if the Wine community can make it happen.

 

 

There is also another route to take if Linux users have some spare time to help out.

CodeWeavers are now looking for what they call BetterTesters to submit user reports about the performance of their favourite games and applications (in this case the three Affinity applications) on the latest release beta development versions of CrossOver (commercial Wine).

More details can be found here:

https://www.codeweavers.com/bettertester

[LondonSquirrel]

1 hour ago, Snapseed said:

just working well with Wine

The number of Wine users (on Linux) is even less than the number of Linux users. 

[msdobrescu]

2 minutes ago, LondonSquirrel said:

The number of Wine users (on Linux) is even less than the number of Linux users. 

The number of Affinity or Adobe users is less than Windows + MacOS + Android users, probably as much.

[Komatös]

The fact is that the number of Linux users who would use Serif or Adobe products is so small that it is not worth developing for this platform. And you can howl like coyotes in Arizona. None of the software houses that offer programmes for image processing and creation develop for Linux. Just ask OnOne or another developer what a Linux version looks like. They will tell you the same thing.

[msdobrescu]

Actually I don't need Affinity products anymore as I can use equivalents already. I was just pointing to another failed logic.

[chiddekel]

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