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While not ideal, these changes that temporarily break software or your workflow tend to happen everywhere, not only in Linux. Apple on MacOS broke a lot of perfectly good programs with their yet another shift to different architecture and not supporting OpenGL anymore.
And Microsoft slowly makes Windows a nightmare for any serious professional work. Sure, the programs are running on it fine but the OS is spying on you, forces you to update even if it breaks things and MS can change anything with the next coming update. You never know what is going to happen. This is in my opinion a horrible working environment. It is not your computer anymore. A lot of people deal with it only because of software compatibility, there is no alternative for certain software or games.

Linux is definitely not perfect (and I myself criticize a lot of things about it) but this issue with Wayland is hardly a typical "problem with Linux". This is a problem with almost every OS or technology at one point.

What surprises me a bit is the hostility from quite a few users against the Linux port. I get it, if you don't use Linux you don't want Serif "wasting" money on the development. But I still think Linux port would be beneficial even for you in the long run. Windows is probably on its way to become full-on Software-As-A-Service with all of the bad things that it brings. Lots of users are here because they got fed up with Adobe's SAAS model. When and if Windows becomes exactly that, what are you going to do? Wouldn't you be glad for an Affinity Linux port (already being developed and ready to go)?

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On 5/27/2022 at 8:10 AM, raptor said:

While not ideal, these changes that temporarily break software or your workflow tend to happen everywhere, not only in Linux. Apple on MacOS broke a lot of perfectly good programs with their yet another shift to different architecture and not supporting OpenGL anymore.
And Microsoft slowly makes Windows a nightmare for any serious professional work. Sure, the programs are running on it fine but the OS is spying on you, forces you to update even if it breaks things and MS can change anything with the next coming update. You never know what is going to happen. This is in my opinion a horrible working environment. It is not your computer anymore. A lot of people deal with it only because of software compatibility, there is no alternative for certain software or games.

Linux is definitely not perfect (and I myself criticize a lot of things about it) but this issue with Wayland is hardly a typical "problem with Linux". This is a problem with almost every OS or technology at one point.

What surprises me a bit is the hostility from quite a few users against the Linux port. I get it, if you don't use Linux you don't want Serif "wasting" money on the development. But I still think Linux port would be beneficial even for you in the long run. Windows is probably on its way to become full-on Software-As-A-Service with all of the bad things that it brings. Lots of users are here because they got fed up with Adobe's SAAS model. When and if Windows becomes exactly that, what are you going to do? Wouldn't you be glad for an Affinity Linux port (already being developed and ready to go)?

Exactly, this is the reason I left using Windows as my primary Operating System for personal, my business use, and at work with my workstation. With Windows you don't own it anymore. Each edition pushes required online accounts more and more. They are actively adding and testing new ad locations on the Operating System. It's likely going to go to a subscription service at some point. I got tired of having to run debloaters to remove 2gbs of telemetry and ads used by ram and a variable amount on CPU usage. I work in IT as a day job and the amount of hours we spend removing all the bloat from our Windows Workstations creating custom images is staggering. Some of those return even if removed when you update the OS. It is an undisputed fact that Windows has become malware. It's no longer an opinion, its fact.

If Serif someday decides to support Linux I'd be overjoyed, If they don't support it... oh well, that's their call. I don't believe it is going to happen anytime soon either. I do believe you have correctly identified why there is so much toxic behavior about Serif supporting other operating systems on these forums. Users on the supported systems will shout down any suggestion for another platform to support other operating systems because they believe it will "waste money and support on it" and perceive it as a threat to Serif's resources.

I'm honestly not too concerned about it anymore. Open Source software is maturing especially Blender, Inkscape 1.2, Krita, etc. is proof of that. Also, Windows software through wine is getting better every week and while I will not use them for a few reasons, the Linux community figured out how to use Photoshop & Illustrator Adobe CC products on Linux awhile ago, so it's already here.

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15 minutes ago, Kamei Kojirou said:

 the Linux community figured out how to use Photoshop & Illustrator Adobe CC products on Linux awhile ago, so it's already here.

You can use your Adobe CC subscription on Linux? I know it is not official from Adobe, does it break each time Adobe releases an update?

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4 minutes ago, wonderings said:

You can use your Adobe CC subscription on Linux? I know it is not official from Adobe, does it break each time Adobe releases an update?

I have no idea. I have seen others use it with good performance and that's all I know about it.

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1 hour ago, Kamei Kojirou said:

Exactly, this is the reason I left using Windows as my primary Operating System for personal, my business use, and at work with my workstation. With Windows you don't own it anymore. Each edition pushes required online accounts more and more. They are actively adding and testing new add locations on the Operating System. It's likely going to go to a subscription service at some point. I got tired of having to run debloaters to remove 2gbs of telemetry and ads used by ram and a variable amount on CPU usage. I work in IT as a day job and the amount of hours we spend removing all the bloat from our Windows Workstations creating custom images is staggering. Some of those return even if removed when you update the OS. It is an undisputed fact that Windows has become malware. It's no longer an opinion, its fact.

If Serif someday decides to support Linux I'd be overjoyed, If they don't support it... oh well, that's their call. I don't believe it is going to happen anytime soon either. I do believe you have correctly identified why there is so much toxic behavior about Serif supporting other operating systems on these forums. Users on the supported systems will shout down any suggestion for another platform to support other operating systems because they believe it will "waste money and support on it" and perceive it as a threat to Serif's resources.

I'm honestly not too concerned about it anymore. Open Source software is maturing especially Blender, Inkscape 1.2, Krita, etc. is proof of that. Also, Windows software through wine is getting better every week and while I will not use them for a few reasons, the Linux community figured out how to use Photoshop & Illustrator Adobe CC products on Linux awhile ago, so it's already here.

I'm not even sure that they are actively working on making their software compatible with Wine (although I would be only too happy to be corrected on that matter).

PhotoLine is up there with both Photoshop and Affinity Photo in terms of capability but it is much less well known. They don't make a specific Linux version but they do make sure it is compatible with Wine so that Linux users are not left out.

Tutorials are below:

http://www.russellcottrell.com/photo/PhotoLine/downloads/PhotoLineTutorial.pdf

http://www.russellcottrell.com/photo/PhotoLine/basic.htm

http://evrencomert.com/PhotoLine.htm

I must stress this again - PhotoLine on Wine for Linux users is not a competitor for any Serif Europe product precisely because Serif Europe does produce any software that is compatible with Linux or Wine.

PhotoLine_21.jpg

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1 hour ago, Kamei Kojirou said:

What surprises me a bit is the hostility from quite a few users against the Linux port. I get it, if you don't use Linux you don't want Serif "wasting" money on the development. But I still think Linux port would be beneficial even for you in the long run. Windows is probably on its way to become full-on Software-As-A-Service with all of the bad things that it brings. Lots of users are here because they got fed up with Adobe's SAAS model. When and if Windows becomes exactly that, what are you going to do? Wouldn't you be glad for an Affinity Linux port (already being developed and ready to go)?

I think a lot of users wouldn't care. If they did care then Adobe wouldn't be successful with CC subscriptions, Microsoft would still be selling Office in a box with disks and Autodesk couldn't command the eye-watering yearly extortion that they charge.

At the moment I'm about 50:50 Linux/Windows. In the future I will probably migrate to Linux more and more if I don't like where Windows heads but, at the moment, it's still a useful tool for me. If anyone (who isn't particularly tech savvy) asked me which operating system to use "right now" I would struggle to recommend Linux, unless they had someone on this forum to do tech support for them!

I've seen a lot of forum discussions "Windows vs Linux" and it always gets to the same point. The Windows guys are always idiots who "don't know any better" and the Linux users are portrayed as just nerds who spend all their time messing around with the OS and not actually doing anything. The truth is usually somewhere in the middle.

It is very disingenuous to suggest that someone has chosen an operating system because they are just stupid or don't know any better. Most people make a decision about what they want out of their computer based on their personal needs.

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Most people don't use windows because it's good, they use it because it's the default on most computers when they buy them and that is the only reason software developers develop for windows first. It has the marketshare because microsoft has the money to make it the default. Anything else is basically Apple.

This is *slowly* changing now as Razer, Dell, Minisforum and system76 sell computers with linux on, albeit very few (apart from system76 which is the apple of linux). I'm 100% on linux now as a 3D artist and you know what the #1 issue is? it's lack of a decent photo editor. It's not that linux is bad. it's not unfriendly to users, it's not a bad UX. Applications work fine on linux *when they're developed for linux* and thankfully a lot of the time even if it wasn't developed for linux it may still work (like world machine for example, no linux version yet runs perfectly on linux).

I think Valve are doing a great job also, they're going all in on gaming on linux and it's bringing more and more people to linux with the steamdeck. The thing linux needs the most is for people to just use it.

Anyways photopea is pretty decent on linux and it now has a flatpak (which is effectively a web app but still awesome)image.thumb.png.2366a05fdbc655e06a5e84698c85b01e.png

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18 hours ago, MattyWS said:

Most people don't use windows because it's good, they use it because it's the default on most computers when they buy them and that is the only reason software developers develop for windows first. It has the marketshare because microsoft has the money to make it the default. Anything else is basically Apple.

This is *slowly* changing now as Razer, Dell, Minisforum and system76 sell computers with linux on, albeit very few (apart from system76 which is the apple of linux). I'm 100% on linux now as a 3D artist and you know what the #1 issue is? it's lack of a decent photo editor. It's not that linux is bad. it's not unfriendly to users, it's not a bad UX. Applications work fine on linux *when they're developed for linux* and thankfully a lot of the time even if it wasn't developed for linux it may still work (like world machine for example, no linux version yet runs perfectly on linux).

I think Valve are doing a great job also, they're going all in on gaming on linux and it's bringing more and more people to linux with the steamdeck. The thing linux needs the most is for people to just use it.

Anyways photopea is pretty decent on linux and it now has a flatpak (which is effectively a web app but still awesome)image.thumb.png.2366a05fdbc655e06a5e84698c85b01e.png

Agreed on most counts. As far as Apple and System76 goes, You take the bad parts about Apple and throw them in the dumpster and you have System76(No hardware restrictions, you can change anything about it, install the software on anything you want, etc.) That being said I might be biased, I use Pop!_OS, love it, and recommend it to everyone.

Photopea is a great option for simple projects, It has performance issues the more complicated it gets, if you don't use a tablet with pressure support as part of your workflow,  and there is no perpetual license of the software without ads, without a subscription.

For my use case at least, I think Krita is the best photo editor on Linux. Which is hilarious because they don't claim to be one, but they are a fork of GIMP, so their is at least an older GIMP instance under the hood without the majority UI/UX issues of GIMP with better UI/UX, CYMK, non-destructive work, effect layers etc.  I think Krita is comparable to Affinity Photo, with a better painting experience, but the photo editing tools aren't well advertised and almost as good, the UI/UX is slightly worse because photo editing isn't the forefront, and their font tool has a weird popup interface to place text.

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Linux is stuck really.  People do not develop significant amounts of professional applications for the average desktop user and so less people are inclined to leap to Linux and so less people develop significant amounts of professional applications for the average desktop user and round and round it goes.  Unless big players get on board, it is doomed to stay this way as a niche OS until the second coming.

Base Unit: I5 (4th gen.), 16GB Ram, 512GB SSD (Boot), 4TB HDD, GT730 (Graphics), Colour Calibrated Monitor and Printer (Courtesy of X-Rite Hardware) - Running Windows 10

Laptop: I5 (8th Gen), 16GB Ram, 256GB NVME (Boot), 256GB SSD, Intel 620 Graphics, Colour calibrated screen(Courtesy of X-Rite Hardware) - Dual boot system (Ubuntu 22.04 (KDE) and Windows 10).
 

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5 minutes ago, cyberlizard said:

People do not develop significant amounts of professional applications for the average desktop user

They used to for the above-average user. SGI was good for high end graphics, and Sun was good for mid-end graphics, both at a price. Then along came Windows, and that part of the desktop UNIX market moved almost entirely. NT 3.51 and NT4 were not particularly good, they were every bit as unreliable and unstable as UNIX was reliable and stable. When Windows 2000 came out it was a game changer. There were a few hold outs for a time, but it became clear. Windows + Intel was cheaper than UNIX + non-Intel.

What a lot of Linux people do not understand is, it is not coming back. The desktop Linux market has hovered around 1% for 20 years. It has barely shifted in that time. There is nothing that Linux on the desktop offers that makes me say "I want that". I'm not a Windows user these days and there are things about it that make me say "I do not want that" such as telemetry and phoning home with who knows what data.

When I use UNIX on the desktop I know that it is as a niche thing. 

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On 5/29/2022 at 6:35 PM, Kamei Kojirou said:

Agreed on most counts. As far as Apple and System76 goes, You take the bad parts about Apple and throw them in the dumpster and you have System76(No hardware restrictions, you can change anything about it, install the software on anything you want, etc.) That being said I might be biased, I use Pop!_OS, love it, and recommend it to everyone.

Photopea is a great option for simple projects, It has performance issues the more complicated it gets, if you don't use a tablet with pressure support as part of your workflow,  and there is no perpetual license of the software without ads, without a subscription.

For my use case at least, I think Krita is the best photo editor on Linux. Which is hilarious because they don't claim to be one, but they are a fork of GIMP, so their is at least an older GIMP instance under the hood without the majority UI/UX issues of GIMP with better UI/UX, CYMK, non-destructive work, effect layers etc.  I think Krita is comparable to Affinity Photo, with a better painting experience, but the photo editing tools aren't well advertised and almost as good, the UI/UX is slightly worse because photo editing isn't the forefront, and their font tool has a weird popup interface to place text.

As someone once said about Krita over at Digital Photography Review, "It is photoeditor hidden in paint application..."

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4105149

In terms of equivalents to Affinity Publisher, there are some alternatives on Linux, the most widely known of which is Scribus:

https://www.scribus.net/

However, it is not the only one and PageStream is one alternative although it does have an old school interface:

https://pagestream.org/

Lucidpress is an online equivalent so it is available to Linux users:

https://www.lucidpress.com/pages/

The alternative that has impressed me the most though is VivaDesigner that has a Linux version:

https://www.viva.us/en/products/desktop-publishing/vivadesigner-desktop-version

viva-designer.png

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Since 15 years I try to switch my primary OS to Linux. Every time limited by a good Design Suite, GPU performance and Games. GPU Acceleration came with driver support. The breakthrough in games came with Steam using reliable GPU Acceleration. Now my design workflow is the last limiting part.

I know, that there are multiple solutions for different parts of my profession, but none of them is streamlined enough. If you would publish your Software on Linux, I could finally hop my complete workflow to Debian. I would buy your app again, even though I have already bought every application from Serif for my Windows, and MacOS Machines.

Maybe you could test if there would be a suitable marked for Serif, by developing just one app for Linux. Starting progressive with only the limited core functionality as a beta demo.

I am a freelance graphic designer from Germany, and studied visual communication.

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4 hours ago, dhdus said:

Since 15 years I try to switch my primary OS to Linux. Every time limited by a good Design Suite, GPU performance and Games. GPU Acceleration came with driver support. The breakthrough in games came with Steam using reliable GPU Acceleration. Now my design workflow is the last limiting part.

I know, that there are multiple solutions for different parts of my profession, but none of them is streamlined enough. If you would publish your Software on Linux, I could finally hop my complete workflow to Debian. I would buy your app again, even though I have already bought every application from Serif for my Windows, and MacOS Machines.

Maybe you could test if there would be a suitable marked for Serif, by developing just one app for Linux. Starting progressive with only the limited core functionality as a beta demo.

I am a freelance graphic designer from Germany, and studied visual communication.

There is a way round that and l hope that you have at least 16GB of RAM. What you could do is run the Affinity applications on macOS or Windows inside a virtual machine within Debian Linux.

I have enclosed examples below and there are plenty of tutorials on how to do this on Youtube. Good luck!

Links:

https://www.linuxuprising.com/2021/03/install-macos-big-sur-or-catalina-in.html

https://betterprogramming.pub/how-to-run-macos-inside-a-virtual-machine-on-linux-4d6ce7cd493e?gi=b749de128495

https://itsfoss.com/install-windows-10-virtualbox-linux/

 

 

 

 

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19 hours ago, dhdus said:

Maybe you could test if there would be a suitable marked for Serif, by developing just one app for Linux. Starting progressive with only the limited core functionality as a beta demo.

The customers are just not there. Not anywhere near enough. Companies that have tried have been bitten. Corel, WordPerfect, Borland, ...

Linux's place is on the server. On the desktop it is insignificant.

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40 minutes ago, LondonSquirrel said:

The customers are just not there. Not anywhere near enough. Companies that have tried have been bitten. Corel, WordPerfect, Borland, ...

To be fair, when they made the attempt, Linux was still fairly janky, and required a degree in computer science to install.

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45 minutes ago, LondonSquirrel said:

The customers are just not there. Not anywhere near enough. Companies that have tried have been bitten. Corel, WordPerfect, Borland, ...

Linux's place is on the server. On the desktop it is insignificant.

To be fair, Corel's AfterShot is still available for Linux

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3 hours ago, LondonSquirrel said:

The customers are just not there. Not anywhere near enough. Companies that have tried have been bitten. Corel, WordPerfect, Borland, ...

Linux's place is on the server. On the desktop it is insignificant.

I have to ask this. Do you do anything other than malignant, toxic negativity? After all, you are not obliged or required by law to post in this thread.

1 hour ago, Renzatic said:

Why they can't just provide an .rpm or .flatpak is beyond me. Hell, that's what the Substance Suite does. You can install it in just two clicks.

To be fair, Corel does provide both .deb and .rpm files for AfterShot Pro 3. Go to the link below, click on the green Download Trial bar and the files will appear.

https://www.aftershotpro.com/en/free-trials/

I have successfully used Alien in the past to convert between .deb/.rpm files and it worked just fine.

I have also used AfterShot Pro and I think it's a very good alternative to Adobe's perma-rental Lightroom. I should add that we have plenty of choice on Linux when it comes to RAW editing/cataloguing software including, but not limited to, LightZone, Darktable, RawTherapee, ART, etc.

AfterSP3.jpg

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1 hour ago, Snapseed said:

you are not obliged or required by law to post in this thread.

Neither are you.

This thread started out almost 5 years ago with false information about the number of Linux users. Nothing has changed in those 5 years. Linux is still where it was.

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7 minutes ago, LondonSquirrel said:

Neither are you.

This thread started out almost 5 years ago with false information about the number of Linux users. Nothing has changed in those 5 years. Linux is still where it was.

Actually we came here to ask for a Linux version. It's our right to ask. You are here just to discourage those people. Linux has advanced in those 5 years, although it was just reliable then as it is now. You may say what you want, this won't change the facts.

A question: why nVidia open-sourced its drivers? Try imagine the implications of this.

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