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Affinity products for Linux

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1 hour ago, AffinityMakesMeSmile said:

One thing wrong here, and that is the comparison between iPad apps and desktop ditto, hold in mind that Affinity Photo and Affinity Designer on iPad holds almost 99,5% of all functionality from the desktop versions on Mac/Windows...

We eagerly awaiting Affinity Publisher on the iPad now, and, when this is released I can go 100% on my iPad Pro 12.9" 2020 edition...

Well, Affinity is an exception in my experience.

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Love Affinity photo on the iPad but photo lacks one important thing on the iPad. Brush size indicator when painting and erasing. For me that's a showstopper that made me go for Artstudio pro and Infinite Painter instead. Did they forget or is it by design? I will not go 100% iPad until that is fixed. Undo will kill my fingertips.

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In all seriousness, though. Can you open a Kickstarter for a Linux version, and actually see how many people would back it up? Cover the prices that it would take to make it, and we'll see how many people would back it up. If you don't want to go through the trouble of posting something, what's the legality for one of us to open it up, and only if it passes your threshold, only then we'd receive the money and pass it onto you?

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I don't think it will be easy to take a decision like that. @spidershu's idea is a good one but maybe it would be better to start with a poll knowing the answer to this question: how much money and time it would cost. Is there an actual study about this project? Is the company really interested in this project or it is comfortably numb rigth now.

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Posted (edited)

i have been using Mac computers since the MacPlus, but i am so ready to leave. i need design software as capable as photoshop, illustrator, and indesign, but i am sick of the downward spiral of apple hardware getting so expensive and limited (no upgrades on laptops). i am stuck with apple because adobe won't make design software for linux. basically same situation as @Framelynx on page 43.

somehow i saw "serif" mentioned somewhere, and i was so excited to check whether their products were available on linux, because then i could finally be free of apple (AND adobe) !! alas, no linux support.

i hate the concept of software subscription, and i agree with a post by @Metsys on page 45 that subscription software is a barrier to non-overprivileged communities. if affinity ran on linux, i would totally pay out of pocket for the alternative to apple hardware and adobe software, even though my academic institution gives me free adobe creative cloud access.

Edited by mikewong
because now i can do "@" right

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Posted (edited)

Wow, 46 pages :) Let's jump into that Linux frenzy ...

I am digital artist and developer for many years. I was trying to give Linux a try like 15 years ago. And for me it was a disaster because I wasn't nerd enough to get all the broken things working.

I switched back to Windows because it had all the tools available, which I needed. Especially tools for 3d stuff, which also were not available on Mac.

Now I am working on Ubuntu for 3 years and I would never go back. And I not considering myself a bigger nerd than any other guy working in the creative area.
I did not have any serious problem with Ubuntu since then and even if there is  something, you will find at least one answer to your problem in the net - easily.

The most important 3d applications are also available on Linux by now - Blender (of course), Substance Suite, Unity 3d, etc.

But what I actually want to say is that in my opinion open source software as Linux and Blender is obviously on its way to a wide audience. People and even big companies finally start to see what Open Source can do for them. And I am confident that it is just the beginning of a new paradigm in software development and licensing.
These old licensing models Adobe and Autodesk are using (because they were able to milk their consumers very successfully over the last decades because of a lack of alternatives) will not work anymore in a few years. Also the totally unrealistic license fees they charge are (finally) doomed.

(In my scope) Blender is maybe one of best examples. Like 10 years ago nobody took Blender seriously. And even over the last few years none of the companies I had to do with wanted to know anything about Blender. Suddenly last year it clicked and everybody wants to work with Blender. The majority of the big companies in the gaming industry are switching to Blender because they realized that they have the same or even better output by using this software instead of being slaved to giants like Autodesk or Adobe.

In a few years there will be a very successful Open Source (or at least reasonably priced) option in every area of mass market software (Affinity is a good example here). And since Open Source is deeply rooted in Linux, I am also bold enough to predict that there will also be a paradigm change in the field of operating systems towards Linux/Open Source.

Many are realizing that right now, and some are still holding onto the state of the art model of spending tons of money on mediocre and bloatware infested software.

So in the end I think it would be beneficial for any company at least not being ignorant about Linux since sooner or later you will have to develop for it anyway ;)
Serif does a really great job since they also kind of revolutionized the graphic art industry with reasonable pricing and impressive quality of product. I guess it's just a question of time until Serif realizes that there is no way around Linux.

Cheers,
GumboYaYa

Edited by GumboYaYa

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11 hours ago, Redsandro said:

Linus Tech Tips made a general comparison between Windows and the new Ubuntu 20.04 with a pretty fair pro's and con's list. Interesting watch.

 

 

Something has drawn my attention in that video: the number of complains from Linux side. I think that's because Linux users are used to report problems they meet more than other OSes users. Linux users have always had access to developers directly, so they've shared their experience openly, and they are usually listened to, their problems are solved. That, without needing to implement all that metering...

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@GumboYaYa @mikewong & @spidershu

Welcome to the Serif affinity forums :) and thanks for your thoughtful contributions. Just for clarity, Linux is not a part of our 1.x development plans, but we are not saying "never".


Patrick Connor
Serif Europe Ltd

Latest releases on each platform 

 

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I need to chime in here as a paying user of all 3 Affinity apps.

Microsoft has included Linux subsystem for programming. There is no reason why you can't make a Linux port. It will run in Windows 10.

That being said- The reason they are doing this is to eventually go to Linux core platform (Azure) in order to migrate everyone's PC' into a zombie'd dumb terminal to use "Windows as a service" much like how Office365 is (or was- now it is called Microsoft365---hmmmm......? I wonder why... maybe Windows will join that suite given that is why Windows Updates and Office Updates were separate and eventually became Microsoft Updates). This is the garbage that Adobe did which brought you guys business. I guarantee that I will not do this (rent Windows? get real). I will likely move to a Ubuntu distro when it ages (likely Ubuntu Studio). 

 

Now THAT being said- I've been using graphics software since I was about 7 or 8 on Commodore 64/128, Amiga 55+/1000/2000/3000 (68040), MacOS PowerPC/iMac/Modern variations/and Windows 3.1 all the way up. I'm talking ImageFX, DigiPaint3, DeluxePaintV, SuperPaint, FreeHand, Flash, Photoshop, Illustrator, CorelDraw!, PaintShopPro, and more. I can still use any and all of these even with emulation.

 

There is a user base and people do pay for software. Why is your claim to FREE only Linux users inaccurate? because I currently have access to every single thing they have for Windows now and I still paid for your entire suite. Like Krita, GIMP, OpenOffice, LibreOffice, and the like. People actually do buy paid versions of Krita- despite being free if only to get the easier auto updates. You aren't losing anything. All these "FREE" apps are already free for Windows, Linux, and many for Mac too. Yet here we are giving you business. Creating for Linux would actually open up MORE of a user base you aren't touching. Look at it that way. I can hack Adobe CS6 or even Creative Cloud Master Suites if I wanted to. I choose not to. Not making it for Linux removes your Linux user base and market. I already got Adobe Master Suite CS6 and Microsoft Office Pro to work via virtualization on Ubuntu with no performance lag at all. Trust me, if we wanted to, we could do this anywhere on any machine or even run on a simple virtual machine. Again, I chose to pay. Other's will too. don't miss out on that chunk of the pie chart, because Windows is going away and you'll be left behind in development. I guarantee you that if I can get Adobe's Suite to work on Linux, I can get yours to work too. I'd much rather pay you for native support than just getting getting the latest Windows version and virtualizing it again.

 

You appear to have the best user experience against Adobe and are a great product team. Don't take this as negative feedback. This is where the market is going. You WILL be making a LINUX port at some point, you won't have a choice (unless you want to go out of business). Microsoft is changing their OS... It's up to you- I suggest getting a head start.

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Eh, I severely doubt MS will attach Windows to a subscription model. It's one thing to charge a monthly fee to allow access to a piece of software designed to address a specific purpose, another thing entirely to charge people for basically the right to use their own computer. There's only so much people are willing to tolerate, and I'm sure MS is well aware of the fine line that separates Office365 from Windows.

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I also agree that Microsoft will not have a subscription-based operating system. That is not the reason why they made WSL (Windows Subsystem for Linux). Microsoft makes a TON of money the same way Amazon does: cloud computing. WSL exists to support software developers who work in Windows. Why? Because Linux dominates software development, and Microsoft understands that. Making a web app? Linux. Have a desktop or mobile app that connects to a server? Linux.

The domination of Linux in software development is the other reason why I think Affinity should consider a Linux version (aside from giving creatives in marginalized groups an opportunity). Software development requires multi-disciplinary teams. Software developers work with visual designers. And the lines between all of these roles are starting to blur. That is the reason why we are using Figma to do UI design work instead of Affinity Designer. I used Adobe Illustrator for that type of work in the past (this was before Affinity Designer came into my life),  but Figma is something that developers can actually use. So we use Figma because it runs in all operating systems. But to be clear, just because Figma has "multiplayer technology", doesn't mean that Figma is not rubbish at a lot of stuff. Figma is the wrong tool for a lot of things I use it for. But I use it for those things because, again...it works in Linux, and I need to work in a team. Affinity Designer would be much better to use in those cases, but it's limited because of the OSes it can not run on.

The point I'd like to make is that—at this price point—software developers getting Affinity products is an impulse buy. It will allow people to buy it that wouldn't have purchased it otherwise. Allowing disadvantaged groups of people to be able to purchase the required equipment and software at a lower price point is another group of people who would not have purchased Affinity products otherwise.

It's about getting new customers that Adobe doesn't reach.

I do understand the complexities of creating software for multiple operating systems. I also understand that the codebase was probably not built for cross-platform development (hopefully that's a version 2 consideration). I'm sure there's a business strategy of making sure that Affinity products are matching people's needs first so that Affinity actually is an alternative to Adobe. And honestly, I can see why companies would not be interested in creating solutions for developers and minorities. But trust me, they have a loud voice. Once software business start caring about them, they'll get the word out.

Don't think that developers and minorities will be a big enough customer base to cover the cost of development? Consider that people do check to see what operating system software can run on before they buy it. Software that runs on all three operating systems communicates a mature well-written codebase. It lets me know that I'm not locked in, that I can switch operating systems in the future and still be able to edit my files. And it assures me that making this switch will have longevity, and that it's one less thing to worry about.


Graphic design, software development, and education for underestimated creatives. Squirrel Logic

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Why Linux holds potential:

1. Microsoft Office monopoly is a thing of the past and Google Drive is gaining more traction. Hence, less reasons to use Windows.

2. DaVinci has started to gain mind share among video-makers and they are also available on Linux.

3. More and more apps originated from the mobile world have their PWA counterparts making them OS-agnostic.

4. Google's push for Chrome OS may benefit Linux in general.

5. Microsoft has become more Linux-friendly nowadays (WSL2, Terminal, Chromium Edge, Azure, etc.)

6. Ubuntu has become much less hassle than ever before and continue to improve in that direction.

7. The 'new' professionals who traverse between front and back ends of software/web development.

It has been 15 years of using Adobe products and I've grown so comfortable and familiar with their products. Right now, I'm using Linux on VM for web development. If you make your software available on Linux, I'll jump into this Linux ship permanently and let go of the expensive Adobe subscription in a jiffy. Next, we need Sketch/Adobe XD alternative. Someone has ported Figma for Linux, I have yet to try. Overall, Linux is interesting and has potential.

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I think I cannot add any more than 2 previous big comments. I'm about the same, just missed the Commodore era (altho I worked in TVPaint/LW/Imagine on A3000. And on SGI Onyx2 in SI3.5 )))).

The only thing I'd say: now at times when Apple is going ARM and MS is going I don't know where, it would be at least safe to have a 3rd, non-vendor-locked option.
Which is Linux, looks like.
It's still far from the best, but in some circumstances I think it could be the lesser evil.

PS: could not imagine I'm gonna be Linux advocate...

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2 hours ago, Renzatic said:

Eh, I severely doubt MS will attach Windows to a subscription model. It's one thing to charge a monthly fee to allow access to a piece of software designed to address a specific purpose, another thing entirely to charge people for basically the right to use their own computer. There's only so much people are willing to tolerate, and I'm sure MS is well aware of the fine line that separates Office365 from Windows.

So.... they have been planning this for a long time and even brought it up. For several years, the direction has been wanting to make everything terminal based.

 

Stupid? Yeah... will it fly and actually happen? Well, that's up to the consumer. No one wanted Windows 10 for a while and they forced it anyway and cut short Win7 support despite earlier promises. Adobe deliberately allowed people to use amd hack their software for decades (like they didnt know how easy it was amd is), only to successfully make themselves so standard in the market, that they very much solidifies their place as THE standard for nearly everything. Windows has done the same. Not because they are good, but because of the investment in low cost and software support makes it difficult to ditch for most people. 

 

Is it possible to happen? Oh yeah. Wouldn't put it past them. Either way, a Linux port would work wonders given the wider architecture support across multiple platforms.

 

Hell, look at AmigaOS's grandchild, AmigaDE or AmigaAnywhere tech... write once, run anywhere ability. Maybe Affinity should consider that instead. Will run on all major processors and architectures and even as own OS or hosted on top of any OS. Just a thought. They'd only have to support one version amd keep it updated and all users from all walks of life can use it. no money lost.

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1 hour ago, JofreJKD said:

So.... they have been planning this for a long time and even brought it up. For several years, the direction has been wanting to make everything terminal based.

They're wanting to leverage the cloud for enterprise solutions, home office applications, and storage, which they've more or less already done, and are making a mint off of it.

Turning Windows itself into a sub based service would be incredibly stupid for a number of reasons. For one thing, it'd basically be Microsoft charging people what'll amount to a pointless middleman fee just to access their own paid services. It'd not only be an ongoing self imposed obstacle barring the way to their own line of products, but would be double dipping into their customer's wallets in the worst, most obviously greedy way. I doubt a majority of their user base would tolerate it, especially when there are so many compelling alternatives to choose in lieu of. 

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I just installed Ubuntu 20.04 on my both Mac machines that I do have. Windows and MacOS are over! Linux is the only feasible future we have!

Let me explain better. Apple is closing their ecosystem in a proprietary golden cage, where only Apple can DICTATE what will and what won't run on their systems. They do want to limit the user freedom as much as possible. I do have an external Nvidia eGPU that now I can't use on MacOS. I do also have a dedicated Nvidia graphic card on my MacBookPro that also I can't use-it anymore with the latest Catalina OS.

Microsoft, on the other hand have a somehow similar strategy, only that they are trying to play nicer (on the surface). Windows it is not a secure OS by any stretch of imagination. Maybe for this reason, or not, they are implementing the entire Linux subsystem in Windows (WSL) ?

On the other hand, Linux is the only option to be sure that you can use your Hardware and Software as long as you want. It is notorious that Linux is "reviving" old Windows sluggish machines.

After installing Ubuntu on my MAC machines, I can now finally be able to use again my Nvidia GPUs! I do also installed Steam and I can enjoy BETTER gaming performance that I do ever had on Mac or Windows!

However, the drawback of Linux for now is the support for professional content creation software like Affinity suite. For this reason I do raise my voice for support from Affinity side for their products on Linux.

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In recent years the OS market has changed a lot. Especially since the end of support for Windows 7, Linux is now an important alternative.

I can only speak for myself, but I do not want to and will not use Windows 10. MacOS is an alternative, but I don't like Apple hardware. Currently I use a Hackintosh. As Apple is now moving to their own ARM processors and therefore a Hackintosh will not be an alternative in the near future, I will have to decide between Linux and Apple hardware. Personally I would prefer to use Linux.

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On 6/20/2020 at 1:11 AM, JofreJKD said:

I need to chime in here as a paying user of all 3 Affinity apps.

Microsoft has included Linux subsystem for programming. There is no reason why you can't make a Linux port. It will run in Windows 10.

That being said- The reason they are doing this is to eventually go to Linux core platform (Azure) in order to migrate everyone's PC' into a zombie'd dumb terminal to use "Windows as a service" much like how Office365 is (or was- now it is called Microsoft365---hmmmm......? I wonder why... maybe Windows will join that suite given that is why Windows Updates and Office Updates were separate and eventually became Microsoft Updates). This is the garbage that Adobe did which brought you guys business. I guarantee that I will not do this (rent Windows? get real). I will likely move to a Ubuntu distro when it ages (likely Ubuntu Studio). 

 

Now THAT being said- I've been using graphics software since I was about 7 or 8 on Commodore 64/128, Amiga 55+/1000/2000/3000 (68040), MacOS PowerPC/iMac/Modern variations/and Windows 3.1 all the way up. I'm talking ImageFX, DigiPaint3, DeluxePaintV, SuperPaint, FreeHand, Flash, Photoshop, Illustrator, CorelDraw!, PaintShopPro, and more. I can still use any and all of these even with emulation.

 

There is a user base and people do pay for software. Why is your claim to FREE only Linux users inaccurate? because I currently have access to every single thing they have for Windows now and I still paid for your entire suite. Like Krita, GIMP, OpenOffice, LibreOffice, and the like. People actually do buy paid versions of Krita- despite being free if only to get the easier auto updates. You aren't losing anything. All these "FREE" apps are already free for Windows, Linux, and many for Mac too. Yet here we are giving you business. Creating for Linux would actually open up MORE of a user base you aren't touching. Look at it that way. I can hack Adobe CS6 or even Creative Cloud Master Suites if I wanted to. I choose not to. Not making it for Linux removes your Linux user base and market. I already got Adobe Master Suite CS6 and Microsoft Office Pro to work via virtualization on Ubuntu with no performance lag at all. Trust me, if we wanted to, we could do this anywhere on any machine or even run on a simple virtual machine. Again, I chose to pay. Other's will too. don't miss out on that chunk of the pie chart, because Windows is going away and you'll be left behind in development. I guarantee you that if I can get Adobe's Suite to work on Linux, I can get yours to work too. I'd much rather pay you for native support than just getting getting the latest Windows version and virtualizing it again.

 

You appear to have the best user experience against Adobe and are a great product team. Don't take this as negative feedback. This is where the market is going. You WILL be making a LINUX port at some point, you won't have a choice (unless you want to go out of business). Microsoft is changing their OS... It's up to you- I suggest getting a head start.

Nothing indicate that Serif Labs is intrested in Linux (at least for now), BUT, something says me that Serif maybe will release Android versions of their apps in a near future (2021?)...

Just now Affinity Publisher for iPad have highest priorities, but, the global pandemy have certainly delayed it’s releasedate - perhaps it was ment to be released today on the opening ceremony of Apples WWDC congress?

sure, no one is absolutely sure that Linux versions of Affinity Suite will not be developed, but, I’m not sure that they will have support on FIVE different platforms in the future...

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On 6/21/2020 at 4:35 AM, Dacicusan said:

I just installed Ubuntu 20.04 on my both Mac machines that I do have. Windows and MacOS are over! Linux is the only feasible future we have!

Let me explain better. Apple is closing their ecosystem in a proprietary golden cage, where only Apple can DICTATE what will and what won't run on their systems. They do want to limit the user freedom as much as possible. I do have an external Nvidia eGPU that now I can't use on MacOS. I do also have a dedicated Nvidia graphic card on my MacBookPro that also I can't use-it anymore with the latest Catalina OS.

Microsoft, on the other hand have a somehow similar strategy, only that they are trying to play nicer (on the surface). Windows it is not a secure OS by any stretch of imagination. Maybe for this reason, or not, they are implementing the entire Linux subsystem in Windows (WSL) ?

On the other hand, Linux is the only option to be sure that you can use your Hardware and Software as long as you want. It is notorious that Linux is "reviving" old Windows sluggish machines.

After installing Ubuntu on my MAC machines, I can now finally be able to use again my Nvidia GPUs! I do also installed Steam and I can enjoy BETTER gaming performance that I do ever had on Mac or Windows!

However, the drawback of Linux for now is the support for professional content creation software like Affinity suite. For this reason I do raise my voice for support from Affinity side for their products on Linux.

Well... not so fast... through WINE, I was able to get Photoshop and Illustrator CS6 to run just fine. Why not this too?

Although, yes, I'd rather native support. Easier.

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I would be totally happy to prepay for a copy of the Affinity suite on Linux before you even begin to transition it. I'm sure others here and beyond would happily do the same to show their commitment. There is a market for this and that market would dramatically increase once the word has got out. I mean a decent, well designed creative suite on Linux, now that's what I call FREEDOM, freedom from an OS that most people dislike or an OS that locks you down to their hardware (ARM <> Hackintosh) while bullying small independent developers. Come on Affinity.serif open your eyes and embrace the Linux community, we are all here waiting to start a OS revolution, a mass migration, please be part of it and give us the creative tools we desperately need so we can begin.... Please.

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On 6/17/2020 at 12:41 AM, Injiniero said:

I don't think it will be easy to take a decision like that. @spidershu's idea is a good one but maybe it would be better to start with a poll knowing the answer to this question: how much money and time it would cost. Is there an actual study about this project? Is the company really interested in this project or it is comfortably numb rigth now.

Polls are not a good measure compared to asking people to actually put down money. You get a lot of false positives when asking, "Would you buy this?". People want to be positive and do want things to be successful. Kickstarter is a good way to gauge who is willing to actually pay, and if it doesn't hit the development funding needs, the project loses only that campaign prep time.
 

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I'd 1000% buy Affinity for Linux. I hope they or Adobe do it soon. It will launch the platform like never before should one of the big DTP companies support it.

 

So much untapped potential

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