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Affinity products for Linux

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In real scenarios collaborating with people, companies, clients, there are often technical issues.  The compatibility with files in Office comes very fast to my mind. And of course, this would happen -it happens- also between competing apps for the same Operating System, but we are talking here about the "pack" of things you need to replace in homes and companies, to grab part of the Windows (which,btw, have been seeing new numbers, the other day...its spread in the world is absolutely massive, like it or not... :| ) or Mac market. You need to "sell" it to the average user, and I say so as I had my times when I was trying to have everybody at least giving it a chance. People don't loose time in giving opportunities to software, that I'm convinced about... Most of the issues are not Linux to blame, certainly.  Drivers... if your latest cam or mouse does not come from the vendor with a Linux driver, there you have one going back to Windows... Of course, we all know there are workarounds, and that today this does not happen that much....But the thing is that a lot of manufacturers just are fine to produce the mac and windows driver (or just Windows. In some very rare case mac-only) , they often forget about Linux. Of course, then there comes the always hard working community and provides one somehow.... Or when an excel page with whatever the latest bell and whistles feature/inserted object included in MS Office 2024, it happens to obviously not load in Libre Office (I DO use Libre Office in my Windows, as I prefer it and is free ), they cringe with an exclamation and, again, another case of Linux uninstall. Or simply they are used to windows files and folders system, even the smallest details can get an average joe user lost...trust me, I've been tech support, and they get stuck in matters one could never imagine. Again, this is neither Linux's fault, they came late to the party, so the others have the cake, and the cake is the UI standards. If they'd have gone for replicating a little bit those manners and usage, we'd have different numbers just with this thing alone.  All I am saying is that this is what happens in reality, we should have that as a starting point... Then again, I consider most professionals a bit of geeks, so for them that is rarely the real issue....  but you'd be surprised how allergic to system stuff are some of my most talented company colleagues. yeah, they might be beasts with 3DS Max, PS, even get the handle to every bit of Zbrush and Substance Painter, which are over complicated and dense apps... But maybe due to that: They focus all their available time in the actual graphic applications, and the OS must not get in the way... Is not my philosophy, as unless you go the spending way -best machine possible, best everything- a bit of optimizing can give you even a +30% in performance in your work. 

 

Let's say it differently, using kind of an hypothesis :

 

Imagine... Linux were, in UI, file handling, hardware real compatibility (drivers available), etc, very similar to what people have learnt. That they'd feel, for example, like if they were handling their Mac.  Not only that, that they were offered, for free or low cost, graphic and office applications 99% compatible with Mac/Windows counterparts.  Do you really believe the situation would be the same? Offering an at least "similar" experience, and (real) compatibility with their work files ,etc, a ton of them would not have jumped into the wagon ? I'm pretty sure they would have. And Windows people, much more, as is less tied to a type of machine, and PC machines tend to be able to be mounted and purchased kind of cheaper (speaking always about the masses, not that ppl knowing their stuff can do whatever too, in Mac's world).


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24 minutes ago, Echoa said:

Back in the late 80s/early 90s is when the "Mac is for designers" idea even starte

 

Actually, I remember that well in 1987 or 1988. I was working for a print shop and was sent to see a customer about a job.

 

I met my first Mac. Up to then all our artwork was done using film typesetting and pasting artwork. Litho film cameras and Drum scanners the size of a room.

 

The guy gave me a demonstration and I was impressed. Not long after Imagesetters. 

 

What a revolution I witnessed.9_9 I remember whole sections of the industry disappearing forever. In fact some people learning a trade were redundant before they finished learning.


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8 minutes ago, toltec said:

 

Actually, I remember that well in 1987 or 1988. I was working for a print shop and was sent to see a customer about a job.

 

I met my first Mac. Up to then all our artwork was done using film typesetting and pasting artwork. Litho film cameras and Drum scanners the size of a room.

 

The guy gave me a demonstration and I was impressed. Not long after Imagesetters. 

 

What a revolution I witnessed.9_9 I remember whole sections of the industry disappearing forever. In fact some people learning a trade were redundant before they finished learning.

 

sorry to go off topic

 

cant say im old enough to remember any of that myself (not the 87/88 stuff but the 89 onward was alive, but not exactly old enough im about to be 29). I have been privileged to witness the huge swing in how computers and electronics are used in many different areas and it has been interesting to say the least. Kids these days never saved things to floppy (or even know what it is) and dont remember a time without smart phones. The pace of computers and technology over the past 30yrs has been amazing, so much so my younger siblings hardly remember the likes of dial up and computers sub 1ghz. Had a teen ask me why his ethernet cable wouldnt fit, turns out it was a dialup modem he was trying to plug into lol

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18 minutes ago, Echoa said:

Unix by definition is the family of OS derivative of the original ATT Bell labs, with OSx (iOS in turn) being considered the Unix with the largest install base, you can look into it if you like or believe it's not true I don't care.

Even among those who were there from the beginning at Bell Labs do not all agree on how much 'family resemblance' there is among the various systems that are POSIX or SUS compliant.

 

BTW, not only have I 'looked into this,' I met some of those AT&T crazies (& believe me, the term fits!) back around 1983, when they were celebrating the breakup of the Bell System that allowed AT&T to commercialize Unix & caused the rift with the academic community.

 

Bottom line: don't believe everything you read on the Internet about this. All is not as it seems to be.

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I saw the other day a TV show where they put kids to guess how to make work one of those tape playback machines. No clue...The girl got angry as no one had told her the tape had to be inside, lol...

And that machine made my childhood(teen age, mostly) so different, as used it for loading Spectrum games, connected to a regular CRT TV (first one in B/W, lol).  Indeed the only "computer" that had seen before the Spectrum were the arcade machines in pubs. We were not even in the euro, yet. The kids now have born with technology, are being handled tablets at the age of 3 (kind of not sure personally about if this is a great thing...). Till 15 that I had no personal computers (but went to friends' houses who had, hehe. Indeed could make a sort of coded game with friends). Then came the monochrome XT computers (glorious green and purple), then the AT, I still have my old 286. Can't get ride of it somehow...That thing already allowed to create graphics pretty well (what we today could only qualify as pixel art, of course. I did not know that around 20 years later I'd be doing again that sort of art for a phone company...I dreamed about it, tho.)

 

It was my teen years...My childhood's toys were a bit less technology related :

canicas.jpg.f24deeed2cd249d2e15574c73214d989.jpgtrompo.jpg.ab65d470cdbbd87119e9db62a8f990e3.jpg

 

Kids today don't know what they are missing.... 9_9

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32 minutes ago, Echoa said:

The pace of computers and technology over the past 30yrs has been amazing, so much so my younger siblings hardly remember the likes of dial up and computers sub 1ghz. Had a teen ask me why his ethernet cable wouldnt fit, turns out it was a dialup modem he was trying to plug into lol

One version of what these days is known as a 'meme' that has been posted all over the Internet:

CrbVrMDWcAALWTX.jpg.d65f234dca7fa5edca5894a8e04ff53d.jpg

:)


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Lol! Didn't know this one....

And even he did not show him a 5,25" ...


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32 minutes ago, R C-R said:

One version of what these days is known as a 'meme' that has been posted all over the Internet:

CrbVrMDWcAALWTX.jpg.d65f234dca7fa5edca5894a8e04ff53d.jpg

:)

 

i used 5.25" floppys in my class in grade school with an apple II to play games, then at home 3.5in floppys for saving pictures and music, used zip drives later on because they had "SO MUCH STORAGE" before fairly quickly moving to CDs/DVDs

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7 hours ago, Echoa said:

i used 5.25" floppys in my class in grade school with an apple II to play games, then at home 3.5in floppys for saving pictures and music, used zip drives later on because they had "SO MUCH STORAGE" before fairly quickly moving to CDs/DVDs

I still have a functioning (!!) USB Zip drive & about a dozen 100 MB zip disks. I bought it for my sister to use with her circa 2000 'old world' CRT iMac so I could send her files via 'sneaker-net.' At the time, I was using one of the SCSI Zip drives with my Macs, along with an early 90mm magneto-optical drive that took 230 MB disks. That MO drive cost $1000 & the cartridges were around $30 each!


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Normal for those who growed up in that earlier times. - On the NeXT computers we had first those 3½-inch drives for "extra-high density" ("ED") 2880 KB floppies, the disks were bloody expensive those days. Thus people often manipulated common 720 KB double-sided double-density MFM disks by burning an extra ED index hole into those, in order to reformat those with higher capacity (though cheap media here had data losts and wasn't able to give you the ED capacity).

Can't remember on how many ED floppies the OS was distributed, but it might have been some six to eight or so. Those who had a Cube with an MO drive of course used that instead, though that one was slow in read/write compared with nowadays solutions.

nextcube.jpg.032c420cadef5c57f3eeaa2c40667220.jpg

Later they introduced CDs and the OS was then distributed on CDs, so you had to have the external CD-ROM drive.

next_cdrom.jpg.0da268837cb7306aef418b8deac9141c.jpg


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Did the NeXT computers require a SCSI interface for connections to MO, CD, & similar 'high capacity' external drives like pre-USB Macs did? If they were anything like those Macs, just configuring a SCSI daisy chain that worked reliably with several devices was a challenge that younger folk should be thankful they never had to deal with. Because I had several devices that used different connectors, I had to contend with a variety of 25 & 50 pin cables, adaptors, & terminators; make sure there were no conflicts with device numbers; & do all the other stuff old timers probably remember all too well to keep the chain working & happy.


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The NeXTcube had enough internal space for connecting SCSI devices and the NeXT MO drives (Sony manufactured here, as the CD-ROM and ED floppy drive too) inside. The Cube had a case slot and opening for those and thus these were primary an accessory for the Cube. Though the NeXT computers also had an external SCSI-II connector ( a MicroD 50-pin connector with thumbclips, also known as Mini 50 or Micro DB50) for daisy chain connection of SCSI-devices here. - When placed in an fitting external SCSI-enclosure such drives like MOs, HDDs etc. were also usable on a NeXTstation (pizza box) which of course had much less internal free space here. - Generally the mass storage devices for NeXTcomputers had to be SCSI-devices.

Another tricky made and first very hard to get as replacement and expensive part was the NeXTstation switching power supply, which was just slightly longer but thinner as a common packet of cigarettes. That one was too originally made by Sony for NeXT. - The NeXTlaser printer was a special one from Canon (as far as I recall) made for NeXT, which had it's own special connector, here the NeXTcomputer itself did the postscript rendering due to it's outstanding Display Postscript capabilities, so the laserprinter itself didn't had any clues about postscript and was much NeXTcomputer dependent (not usable otherwhere) for printing.


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1 hour ago, R C-R said:

 just configuring a SCSI daisy chain that worked reliably with several devices was a challenge that younger folk should be thankful they never had to deal with. Because I had several devices that used different connectors, I had to contend with a variety of 25 & 50 pin cables, adaptors, & terminators; make sure there were no conflicts with device numbers; & do all the other stuff old timers probably remember all too well to keep the chain working & happy.

 

Oh gawd, I remember it like it was yesterday. 

 

Thanks for bringing that up and making me feel old >:(

 

The word Syquest still makes me shiver.


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5 hours ago, R C-R said:

USB Zip drive & about a dozen 100 MB zip disks.

 

[ Wow, one of the most interesting off-topics I can remember of in these forums... ;)  (keep it coming, plz...! ) ]

iomega drives for PC...that's all I remember....but I believe that was much later. The ones you mention, only the rich guy in the village had it...(family not really healthy, lol, just that his father was really up to purchasing every latest bit of tech for him and his freaking lucky son...he invited me always just to brag (mostly his 128k Spectrum, while I had the 48k, rubber keys), but I didn't give a [censored] if he'd let me use those jewels every afternoon) . The rest of us were re-using diskettes till they were fully wrecked. I had literally tons...The magazines used to come with those filled with tons of utilities. 

 

Which brings me to a very interesting point which is sth were I believe we've changed for worse... Shareware developers were a much common thing, then. Bedroom coders that could do an entire game or app alone with no help, commercialize and do very nice money a month, without being inside a company. This fact still was somehow just like that many years later. It saw its old days with the re-birth of the concept with shareware games, indie games not so long ago, maybe 10 to 15 years ago (ie, popcap games, etc). Those times , and specially those much older times, of the floppy discs and later the CDs (not DVDs) , I was often even directly contacted by one or another of those to make the graphics of their entire game or app...man, do I wish it was yet like that. By then I did not have the full expertise in game graphics as to embrace one of those projects (could have but I didn't know I could), nor professional experience and a mountain of other things. Today is all about closed companies with much more barriers (still, other windows have opened, equally interesting, but that's be a huge off topic inside another huge off topic, like those Russian dolls, lol...) . A floppy disk, and later a CD (in magazines, no internet, of course...), would come with tons of utilities. There was a bit of a collectionist (er, hoarder) in me, I had to store all those, that I was almost sure I'd never need, but hey...

 

 

3 hours ago, v_kyr said:

Thus people often manipulated common 720 KB double-sided double-density MFM disks by burning an extra ED index hole into those, in order to reformat those with higher capacity (though cheap media here had data losts and wasn't able to give you the ED capacity).

 

^^This ! I still remember doing that (feeling terribly guilty), lol...And...there was an utility.... argh....can't remember the name....it allowed formating up to 2M (2 millions) of bytes in a floppy disk...I never knew how it did it, for me was just pure magic... but the utility had to be sort of loaded into memory first. The only on-topic (vaguely)  thing I'll say is that a friend of mine used to use this utility at my old PC for being able to put in a floppy disk all files needed to do sort of a "virtual ram disk" (I think it loaded the kernel there), and to be able to do an installation (loaded later with a bunch of floppy disks, asked for sequentially) of the first linux distros we could access at the time (my first touch with Linux). I remember this friend recommending me to use Red Hat "as was easier", instead of an Slackware which would have been quite harder for the inexperienced linux user.

 

3 hours ago, v_kyr said:

Later they introduced CDs and the OS was then distributed on CDs, so you had to have the external CD-ROM drive.

 

I believe I keep a 2x from those times... A hardware freak told me once those readers were much more reliable than the newer ones, they could read from more diverse burners, and were of more solid construction. My hoarding of utilities skyrocketed by then, indeed, just a bit later started to get those free old versions (in magazines) apps from Serif ;) (Draw, PP, etc) 

 

2 hours ago, R C-R said:

just configuring a SCSI daisy chain that worked reliably with several devices was a challenge that younger folk should be thankful they never had to deal with

 

Well, I knew that this was mostly one of the Mac advantages. At some point -I believe was later in time- they were known to be built with scsi by default (I only heard rumors, never had a mac at home). And the times when a Mac was tremendously more effective in handling large chunks of data for image editing for print, or for video editing, besides a lot of factors, due to the average speed stability of the scsi drives and controllers compared with the peaks and valleys of our IDE drives (not so good for video operations).

 

Thing is, I lasted crazy years (is a constant in me, it seems) with a too old machine, a 286, adding ram, tricking the base ram and systems loaders etc (but a ton of apps would require a 386, 386DX, 486, etc) , and then did a huge jump (money allowed it) to an editing machine, for video and other high end stuff, not sure if was '91 or '94. I purchased a crazily expensive Ultra Wide Scsi II controller and even more expensive scsi II disc (deluxe, thing, it had a 5 years warranty, lol). And yeah, that thing was super sweet to work with. And an old pentium, lol... Even bought one of those tape recorders for backup!  To be sincere I was a bit fooled by a supposed "friend" who sold it to me, used more money than needed for what I planned to do, but I was only young one with no professional experience. It costed what today would have been 3k euros... lol, I could have gone with a regular IDE and no backup. 

 

Even with the SCSI disk and controller and a powerful processor, quite some ram for the times, I could compare editing a huge print file (same file later continued editing with a mac), and definitely a mac showed to be ridiculously faster and smoother in editing it... but to be fair, I never knew the real specs (and by the time, I'd be a bit lost if knowing, as knew a bit less than now about hardware). But it was quite a proof that *by then*, macs were no contest the machines for that, as my machine was quite at top of what you could get in PC world... Right now it all depends IMO in what you put into each machine, and how you configure it (and later, how you use it ! ).

 


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Serif should be worried... it seems it has attracted a bunch of old timers with its Affinity, lol...

 

Quote

Thanks for bringing that up and making me feel old >:(

 

I don't feel old, I feel experienced... ! C'mon it has its advantages, too !  :D:D:D 

Plus, I look much younger than I am in the mirror... :D  (surely is just the way I look at it...!  :D )

 


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1 hour ago, SrPx said:

Plus, I look much younger than I am in the mirror... :D  (surely is just the way I look at it...!  :D )

 

 

I have noticed these days that mirrors are pretty awful. They just don;t make them like they used to. Something to do with China I'm told.

I know that in China, mirrors don't work very well. They always cut the top of my head off :o

 

Or maybe that's a a sign of getting old ? :S


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First: China is improving in all of its products... just look how the Cintiq alternatives are starting to be real threats for the brand ...Second (and mostly) : It's the point of view.  :D 


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Les Chinois sont capables à la fois de bien et de mal.

Ils savent s'adapter au marché.

En fabriquant des produits qui répondent aux exigences des clients, ils peuvent fabriquer à des prix très bas sur demande.

Mais c'est inévitablement au mépris de la qualité.

Si le client exige un produit de qualité, il en est parfaitement capable. 

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11 minutes ago, Wikinger said:

Les Chinois sont capables à la fois de bien et de mal.

Ils savent s'adapter au marché.

En fabriquant des produits qui répondent aux exigences des clients, ils peuvent fabriquer à des prix très bas sur demande.

Mais c'est inévitablement au mépris de la qualité.

Si le client exige un produit de qualité, il en est parfaitement capable. 

 

Indeed, I've been told that in their internal market they have brands of very premium quality. They typically export tho lower cost products/brands. Surely this way is a good business compensating the large costs of shipping, which tend to be huge. I have VERY positive experiences in 3D printing small plastic figures for games. Better said, models which I made very recently, sent as 3D prints (in a kind of plastic) to serve as a sort of visual guide, and with that and my 3D files they generated very top quality mold injection produced miniatures. Even more, it was a first for me to create a basic set of assembling parts to be 3D printed, and this Chinese company made it with such accuracy that all copies later on did assemble perfectly. Given the material tolerances in plastics, and how can vary stuff from one copy to another, this is quite hard to get, and they got it perfect. Have some other less optimal experiences with color accuracy in cardboard/paper color printed illustrations, but this happened with a number of POD printers all around the world, too. (now I have my club of favorites, hehe) . Not gonna say names, I don't want to favor anyone, neither damage others. But their (the Chinese companies I've interacted with) capability of reach everywhere, ability to produce large volumes, etc, make them a formidable actor in production. (my 2c)

 

 


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2 hours ago, Fleegle said:

So, what was the topic of this thread about again...?

Futility?

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Great thread!     

 

A single killer app could get a lot of people to use linux.       

 

Like  Apache for servers.

 

Or like the visicalc spreadsheet when PCs first came out. 

 

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1 minute ago, walts.photo said:

Great thread!     

 

A single killer app could get a lot of people to use linux.       

 

Like  Apache for servers.

 

Or like the visicalc spreadsheet when PCs first came out. 

 

Well perhaps... if the Affinity range was not already on Windows and Mac, but surely less so if is cross platform and linux.

 

The main argument is that people who have linux now want this app, but much less so that people will move to linux because of this app. There are those here who are keen to stop using Windows or Mac which they only use for a few apps like Affinity, but they already have linux. So given our starting point of support for Mac OS & Windows & iPad I'm less convinced "a single killer app (Affinity) could get a lot of people to use Linux" if we supported it too. It's much more reasonable to believe the other reasoned arguments that Affinity would be a success on Linux with those people already using that OS.

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Some news:

Quote

 

The Wine team is proud to announce that the stable release Wine 3.0 is now available.

This release represents a year of development effort and over 6,000 individual changes. It contains a large number of improvements that are listed in the release notes. The main highlights are:

  • Direct3D 10 and 11 support.

 

 

For anyone who wants to give it a try.xD

Best regards.

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