Jump to content

Recommended Posts

-- Edited --- (by me, SrPx)


Affinity Designer and Affinity Photo licenses, Windows 7, i7  860 (2009) 2.8 GHz,  8 GB RAM, GTX 1050 2 GB, HD 7200 RPM.  Wacom Intuos 4 XL.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

-- Edited --- (by me, SrPx)


Affinity Designer and Affinity Photo licenses, Windows 7, i7  860 (2009) 2.8 GHz,  8 GB RAM, GTX 1050 2 GB, HD 7200 RPM.  Wacom Intuos 4 XL.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Leo Mikaelson said:

So why not give the linux professionals to actually have their say.

 

You have had you say. Who has stopped you? I have merely pointed out that (in my opinion) Linux is of no use to a professional, and  have clearly stated why. Yet you are trying to shut me up with insults, like "fool" and "troll". This is a debate forum about Affinity, it is not a Linux support or preaching website.

 

Anybody has the right to answer any statement you or any "Linux professional" makes with their point of view without being called a fool. If you disagree, state your case, not throw insults, I am very open minded and willing to change my mind about Linux being of use professionally, I am a Linux user too. and would love to ditch Windows and move to Linux. But after 10 years of using Linux, I just can't find any professional quality software to do what I want. Please prove me wrong!

 

I do photography and create training/instructional videos and occasionally websites, so would need a choice of professional quality photo editing software, green screen software, video production software and internet software. I am not interested in free, unsupported software and am willing to pay. In fact I prefer to pay. But unless Linux can do what it want, it is of no use to my profession(s).

 

You state "Linux professional" so why not you and tonyrh state your professions and how you use Linux for it. I would love to hear your say but can we avoid personal insults, like adults please? Calling someone a fool or a troll because they have a different opinion to you is trolling. Stating a different opinion is debate!

 

I am particularly interested in how graphic arts professionals, video producers and web site designers can use Linux.

 

p.s, What is wrong with geeks ? I'm a geek and proud of it. I am also a Linux user, so I am part of the Linux community too. Or do you think you are better than other Linux users ?


Windows PCs. Photo and Designer, latest non-beta versions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, SrPx said:

 

So, the professional matter...I reserve my right here to politely disagree ... ;)  Linux is professional for a big collection of areas, just not every area, and not mine, the single only reason why I am not in Linux. (before it would have been games, too. )

 

 

 

Fair enough.

 

By training, I mean a school of some sort.

 

In the UK there are  some "officially recognised) training courses, run by the government. The European Computer Driving Licence and City and Guilds. They mainly teach basic computing, Microsoft Office plus accounting software like Sage. They give recognised qualifications that anybody can use when applying for a job in any company. Any company can (and does) send staff there for training. It is all very professional. There is also a local college that teaches things like basic computing and Photoshop courses.

 

For a local business, that sort of back-up is needed to get staff trained. A small taxi company (for example) does not have the resources to learn or teach computing yet they need to do correspondence and accounts. They certainly don't want to become geeks who can install, learn and teach Linux to their employees.

 

You can also find dozens of local and national companies that will supply, install and maintain PC systems, often leased. Printing companies can find loads of suppliers and training for Mac systems and high end software. Mainly Adobe.

 

There is, as far as I know, absolutely none of the above for Linux. Or for that matter, Affinity software ;)


Windows PCs. Photo and Designer, latest non-beta versions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

-- Edited --- (by me, SrPx)


Affinity Designer and Affinity Photo licenses, Windows 7, i7  860 (2009) 2.8 GHz,  8 GB RAM, GTX 1050 2 GB, HD 7200 RPM.  Wacom Intuos 4 XL.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

-- Edited --- (by me, SrPx)


Affinity Designer and Affinity Photo licenses, Windows 7, i7  860 (2009) 2.8 GHz,  8 GB RAM, GTX 1050 2 GB, HD 7200 RPM.  Wacom Intuos 4 XL.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nobody these days should need to learn the OS. Other than basic mousing and filing. That to me is the biggest drawback. I remember the first time I loaded Linux, it asked me a few (simple) questions but I just did not know the answers then. With Windows it asked my name and country, which I knew ;)

 

For websites, I use Xara which is good for quick, visual websites, especially when they need to be responsive. Just drag and drop. I have started using Wordpress and Elementor but I have no interest in learning hand coding. I just don't do enough website stuff and can't learn everything.

 

As for your other point. books or online training courses (videos) are no good. It must be a physical course with a teacher and an exam to get a certificate to be of any use when job seeking. I did take the City and Guilds course and a lot of people there needed one-on-one help and wanted that gilt edged certificate.

 

I have helped a few people (including family) with Linux systems. For home users who just want to browse or write the odd letter it is the best choice IMHO. 

 

 


Windows PCs. Photo and Designer, latest non-beta versions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When the troll find out that his bank, hospital, email provider and the vast majority of websites he use everyday run software "written by amateurs" he'll experience an existential crisis! :D

Also, did he really mention the european-computer-driving-license scam to support his flawed arguments? This is getting epic...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, tonyrh said:

When the troll find out that his bank, hospital, email provider and the vast majority of websites he use everyday run software "written by amateurs" he'll experience an existential crisis! :D

 

He knows Linux is "written by amateurs", that's what open source software like Linux is all about, isn't it ? Amateurs and enthusiasts. Whereas Windows and MacOS is written by professionals. In that they are professional software writers and get paid. Professionals!

 

The thing he is interested to know about is professional use, i.e. what your profession is and what professional Linux software you use ? A simple and polite question. No insults, no calling you names.

 

You have insulted Apple Mac users, are you now insulting all the people who studied hard to learn the ECDL and take the exam? I would point out that Apple Macs are, and have been, used by high end professionals for decades, the ECDL is taken by professionals. Usually office workers who use it for getting a job. Or do you have contempt for everyone who does not use Linux ?

 

Again, what professional Linux qualifications do you have or are you an amateur using software written by amateurs ? This was my original point, Linux is not for professionals. Prove me wrong !

 

P.S. Try reading one of SrPx's posts. He knows about Linux and he makes some very interesting and intelligent points.

 


Windows PCs. Photo and Designer, latest non-beta versions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/20/2017 at 10:01 PM, toltec said:

 

He knows Linux is "written by amateurs", that's what open source software like Linux is all about, isn't it ? Amateurs and enthusiasts. Whereas Windows and MacOS is written by professionals. In that they are professional software writers and get paid. Professionals!

You are so uninformed it's not even funny, Are you really saying that, for example, Red Hat ($2.4B in revenues in 2016... btw the B stands for billions) is unprofessional? This kid...

On 11/20/2017 at 10:01 PM, toltec said:

 

The thing he is interested to know about is professional use, i.e. what your profession is and what professional Linux software you use ? A simple and polite question. No insults, no calling you names.

I work as a web developer. You don't even realize that, just to name a few, Bank of England, Youtube, Facebook, Wikipedia, Twitter, Linkedin all run Linux... and don't let me start on the smartphone market: over 80% of all the smartphones on the planet run a Linux kernel. I don't expect you know what a kernel is, but google.com (btw it runs on Linux too!) is your friend. Also, check your modem/router: 99% it's running Linux...

On 11/20/2017 at 10:01 PM, toltec said:

You have insulted Apple Mac users, are you now insulting all the people who studied hard to learn the ECDL and take the exam? I would point out that Apple Macs are, and have been, used by high end professionals for decades, the ECDL is taken by professionals. Usually office workers who use it for getting a job. Or do you have contempt for everyone who does not use Linux ?

If you had to "study hard to learn the ECDL" I honestly feel sorry for you.

On 11/20/2017 at 10:01 PM, toltec said:

Again, what professional Linux qualifications do you have or are you an amateur using software written by amateurs ? This was my original point, Linux is not for professionals. Prove me wrong !

Funny that you ask... I actually have a Red Hat Certification! If you found the ECDL "hard", a RH certification must look like an impossible challenge to you.

If you don't mind looking like an idiot, you should really tell Google, Facebook and so on that they are running their businesses on an OS not meant for professionals! It should provide a good laugh to them :D

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am a Linux enthusiast myself, and yeah, the development of Linux (the Kernel, that is) is supported by really big names:

https://www.linuxfoundation.org/membership/

And Red Hat is a major supporter of GNOME (a Desktop Environment), but the focus is more to suit their needs as a business (that's why the Fedora Project even exists, to test and polish features that will be integrated in RHLE). So, I don't know if that's enough to make a Linux Distribution suitable as a Graphic Design environment (I know that rendering farms are a strong point of Linux as well, but here we are talking about Image editing rather than 3D modeling).

Valve is working to make a SteamOS a reality too, so that's a huge impulse to Linux as well, but as far as I know, they have problems with Graphic Cards drivers.

Best regards!


You'll never know what you can do until you get it up as high as you can go!   

AMD FX 8350 :: Radeon HD 7870 :: Windows 10 ::  http://mithferion.deviantart.com/

Oxygen Icons :: Free Quality Fonts :: Public Domain Pictures :: iOS 11 Design Resources :: iOS App Icon Template :: The Secret of High Quality Art

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, tonyrh said:

You are so uninformed it's not even funny, Are you really saying that, for example, Red Hat ($2.4B in revenues in 2016... btw the B stands for billions) is unprofessional? This kid...

I work as a web developer. You don't even realize that, just to name a few, Bank of England, Youtube, Facebook, Wikipedia, Twitter, Linkedin all run Linux... and don't let me start on the smartphone market: over 80% of all the smartphones on the planet run a Linux kernel. I don't expect you know what a kernel is, but google.com (btw it runs on Linux too!) is your friend. Also, check your modem/router: 99% it's running Linux...

If you had to "study hard to learn the ECDL" I honestly feel sorry for you.

Funny that you ask... I actually have a Red Hat Certification! If you found the ECDL "hard", a RH certification must look like an impossible challenge to you.

If you don't mind looking like an idiot, you should really tell Google, Facebook and so on that they are running their businesses on an OS not meant for professionals! It should provide a good laugh to them :D

 

 

Fair enough, but it is all internet stuff, we all know the web mostly runs on Linux. So does my fridge. Big deal!  Plenty of people make money out of writing games, like Angry Birds. What percentage of worldwide Mac or PC software revenue do you think $2.48 billion is ;) ?

 

And you might be Red Hat certified, but what about the dozens of other distros? Like Mint, Fedora, Cimmaron, Suse, Ubuntu etc etc. 

 

What about professional computer users, which has always been my point. Printers, graphic artists, designers, taxi drivers, office workers, builders, decorators candlestick makers, etc. What use is Red Hat or Angry Birds to (MOST OF) the real world? Professional computer users (internet aside) don't care about the OS, they care about what the computer does for them. Like accounting or maybe Photo editing. With Linux users, it all seems to be about the OS, not what the computer can actually do. They want to use a computer not play with it. The real world is not all about the internet.

 

I bet nearly all these professional tradespeople have a PC (or possibly a Mac) and run Word, Excel and Sage or, for that matter, Affinity Photo or Designer :D None of which they could do with any Linux distro. There are simply thousands of different professions, yet (apart from internet stuff) how many professions could actually use Linux ? Apart from the lack of professional quality software, their staff all need training which is where Linux falls flat on it's face. The local college teaches MS Office, Sage and Photoshop. It doesn't have a single Linux machine (AFAIK) or offer a single course.

 

I started using Linux over ten years ago but it has gone nowhere. No advance in professional software or professional training or professional support. Or none that I have seen. I wish it had.

 

FYI. I did not take the ECDL but I will tell all those professional people who did that you think they are stupid and that you are better than them because you are qualified on one of the many Linux distros,

 

 


Windows PCs. Photo and Designer, latest non-beta versions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

-- Edited --- (by me, SrPx)


Affinity Designer and Affinity Photo licenses, Windows 7, i7  860 (2009) 2.8 GHz,  8 GB RAM, GTX 1050 2 GB, HD 7200 RPM.  Wacom Intuos 4 XL.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

-- Edited --- (by me, SrPx)


Affinity Designer and Affinity Photo licenses, Windows 7, i7  860 (2009) 2.8 GHz,  8 GB RAM, GTX 1050 2 GB, HD 7200 RPM.  Wacom Intuos 4 XL.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Haha ...

Quote

He knows Linux is "written by amateurs", that's what open source software like Linux is all about, isn't it ? Amateurs and enthusiasts. Whereas Windows and MacOS is written by professionals. In that they are professional software writers and get paid. Professionals!

OMG, according to that logic all other open source stuff like GNU software (GCC, GDB, Emacs and thousand other things), LCC, VI(M), Apple Swift, MS C#, MS VSC, 3/4 of GIT/GitHub, Ant, Mercury, JUnit ... and so on ... are then all amateurish too. Even parts which come along with MacOS then (compilers, debuggers, make tools, some libraries, sys tools etc.) and not to forget also the half part of the libraries which do come along with the Affinity products then. Since a bunch of these things in their actual more modern state, have been developed under Linux or Free-/OpenBSD here.

Damn, it's all just bloody amateurish software ... LOL :D


☛ Affinity Designer 1.7.0 ◆ Affinity Photo 1.7.0 ◆ OSX El Capitan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, v_kyr said:

Haha ...

OMG, according to that logic all other open source stuff like GNU software (GCC, GDB, Emacs and thousand other things), LCC, VI(M), Apple Swift, MS C#, MS VSC, 3/4 of GIT/GitHub, Ant, Mercury, JUnit ... and so on ... are then all amateurish too. Even parts which come along with MacOS then (compilers, debuggers, make tools, some libraries, sys tools etc.) and not to forget also the half part of the libraries which do come along with the Affinity products then. Since a bunch of these things in their actual more modern state, have been developed under Linux or Free-/OpenBSD here.

Damn, it's all just bloody amateurish software ... LOL :D

 

Your logic is illogical. ;) It is "bloody amateur", not "bloody amateurish". There is a big difference between amateur, amateurish and professional. There is especially, a huge difference between the meaning and use of the words "amateur" and "amateurish"

 

Allow me to include a free English lesson for your benefit :D

 

Dictionary---

 

Amateur

"a person who engages in a pursuit, especially a sport, on an unpaid basis"

(I believe this would include most Linux software writers, who gets paid for free software?)

Being an amateur can be good, Olympic gold medals are won by amateurs!

 

Amateurish

"done in an unskilful or inept way"

(nothing good about being amateurish)

 

Professional

"engaged in a specified activity as one's main paid occupation rather than as an amateur"

(this would include professional software writers like, Microsoft, Apple and Serif)

 

Compared to many Linux products, I would frequently say Microsoft software is amateurish, even if it is written by professionals. However, professional products are accountable, if it doesn't work you can get your money back. The software is subject to consumer laws. If it is advertised falsely, the vendors can be prosecuted. Linux is (mostly) an amateur (not "amateurish") product that is not accountable. If Linux screws up your machine and you lose everything, who can you blame ?  If a free Linux product harvests all your personal data and sends it to Russia or North Korea, who do you prosecute? And how much free (amateur) public domain software has stolen data ?

 

I know it is probably very hard but Microsoft has been prosecuted.

https://www.computerworld.com/article/3089071/microsoft-windows/customer-wins-10k-judgement-from-microsoft-over-unauthorized-windows-10-upgrade.html

 

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/03/24/microsoft_windows_10_update/

 

That is why I, as a professional, prefer to pay for software, bought from established professional software companies, like Serif and Microsoft. I genuinely find it hard to understand why any professional cannot see the difference between using professional products compared to using amateur products. Professionals are subject to laws (like data protection) too. If I use Microsoft Access on a Windows 10 machine with Bitdefender Anti-virus. If all my customer's data is stolen, as long as everything is up to date, I have done my best and would not be prosecuted for negligence. If I use a free Linux product on a free distro without a professional anti-virus, I probably would.

 

There are frequently huge data breaches (recently Uber) are they all running on Linux servers and systems? Nothing is perfect. At least for a smaller company using acceptable professional software, there is a "get out" clause. And many will be using their computer to store customer records. So Linux has no place in their busness. IMO

 

Try explaining that to your customers. If you are using the latest Microsoft software with anti-virus, they probably wont blame you. But if you say you were using free software, without anti-virus to protect their vital data . . . . Then there is Marketing. "we am using free software", compared to "We use the latest high quality commercial software to provide you with the very best" or "I am using a cheap compact camera" compared to "I use the very latest Nikon DSLR". If you look cheap, your customers will think you are cheap. I know that is unfair, but that is reality.

 

Most people see Linux as free stuff, for geeks. It needs a big facelift before it will be taken seriously by "normal" people. Linux has an image problem.

 

Obviously, people who employ full time software engineers or pay for and use products like Red Hat and employ certified engineers are in the "professional" category. But that is very niche.


Windows PCs. Photo and Designer, latest non-beta versions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Man that was funny and made my day! - And yes I already know all that blabla and fun breaking usual meanings.  

Quote

An amateur ( French , from latin amator 'lover') is a person who, unlike a professional , practices hobbies without making a profession or receiving money for their performance. An amateur is a layman ( Greek λαός laós , people 'about λαϊκός laikós , belonging to the people' and church Latin laicus , the (ecclesiastical) layman ) and for his work is not formally trained, unlike the specialist ("trained in the field ").

The term says little about the expertise of amateurs, which can have quite a professional level. By contrast, the term "amateurish" is used pejoratively in the sense of "not on a professional level" . For this reason, the term " semi-professionalism " is often used to describe a performance that is practiced as an amateur but nevertheless as a professional one.

However, fact is one can't generalize these things here, even if some people might try to do so or explain it for the IT-world in that odd way. A lot of software and code here (in the Linux domain) is very professionally developed and even written by professionals. And it doesn't matter if they (the developers) have been paid for that intellectual coding work in some sense or not here. A peace of software or code for solving a specific problem domain can be identified by itself to be good, brilliant or just crap. On the other side there are also a bunch of so called commercial professional software writers which produced more buggy stuff and crap than anything valuable else here. - Thus it always depends!

 

 


☛ Affinity Designer 1.7.0 ◆ Affinity Photo 1.7.0 ◆ OSX El Capitan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, v_kyr said:

semi-professionalism

 

 

Is that a similar term to semi-pregnant or semi-dead ;)


Windows PCs. Photo and Designer, latest non-beta versions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, v_kyr said:

It's another therm for the half of something, like half-truths or half-hearted. ;)

 

So who do you know has has ever been half pregnant ?

 

I do know a few who could be considered semi-dead though :D

 

In fact, looking in the mirror this morning before coffee was a bit scary.


Windows PCs. Photo and Designer, latest non-beta versions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No all programmers working on "Linux" do it for free (be that the Kernel itself, a Desktop Environment or any other of the many tools that make a "Linux Distribution"). Many of them get paid fromm said enterprises and make a fantastic job. So... that would make its Development "half-ameteur and hal professional", I guess.

Anyway, for 2D Graphics and Professional Printing like what the Affinity Suite has to offer, any Linux Distribution is far from the rock-solid foundation it needs to be (Inkscape, GIMP can serve well for Web Graphics, that's true).

That might change in the future but not now; the Krita team is doing a very good job and there are professionals that use it, like this one. So, there is hope.

Best regards!


You'll never know what you can do until you get it up as high as you can go!   

AMD FX 8350 :: Radeon HD 7870 :: Windows 10 ::  http://mithferion.deviantart.com/

Oxygen Icons :: Free Quality Fonts :: Public Domain Pictures :: iOS 11 Design Resources :: iOS App Icon Template :: The Secret of High Quality Art

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, SrPx said:

Edits : Typos, grammar, and some words changed so to make it look like at least some weird English dialect (and a bit less close to pure Klingon). But not changing the sense. In my defense, I was virtually asleep....

 

Is that semi-asleep or half-asleep?  


Windows PCs. Photo and Designer, latest non-beta versions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

LOL. Good one.  :D 

(And yep, I should have written just fully asleep. As I was, indeed...)


Affinity Designer and Affinity Photo licenses, Windows 7, i7  860 (2009) 2.8 GHz,  8 GB RAM, GTX 1050 2 GB, HD 7200 RPM.  Wacom Intuos 4 XL.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So his "local college" is teaching people how to use MS Office... it's a special-needs-college or what? Isn't a college supposed to provide a pretty high level of education? Down here are called universities, maybe I'm mixing things up? Or maybe he meant "local kindergarten"?

His comment "it's just web stuff" made me spit out my coffee... he should switch "professional" career to "professional" comedy!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×