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Affinity products for Linux

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@SrPx, usually, GIMP is much faster under Linux. Even startup is slower under Windows. It takes minutes ... I see my life passing... But under Linux is much better.

Yesterday, Hugin took endlessly to make a stitch of 12 images under Windows. A few minutes under Linux. It's obvious, those apps are Linux-based.

Lately, I've found that GIMP and Hugin are collaborating fine with Darktable and RawTherapee, or DCRaw, so one could chose what to use for RAW development. This is a dream come true!

6 hours ago, SrPx said:

Really... Much less trouble to buy a win10, it's dirty cheap, and double boot. I was so for years, and I really didn't need Linux for anything, was just for fun, no biggie.... Then get the entire Affinity suite (super cheap). I can see more issues to buy a Mac, due to pricing and stuff,  but linux people already have a pc (which anyway, is having now the greatest moment in hardware innovation and prices going down).

I live this way now, I am so tormented by the fact that I use VT-D under Linux and Windows can't boot with that enabled...

 

6 hours ago, SrPx said:

Again, for pro work, if really one is for the money, the efficient way is to have a partition with Windows, seriously. Shall one use Linux for absolutely everything else.

That's because there is no pro software support (in graphics and design field).

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I actually don't mind much the start up time of the app, as typically I'll use whatever the tool for very long sessions, rarely closing them (only when I need all the memory and resources for sth) . 2D vectors, raster or 3D, whatever I do, my sessions tend to be long, is not as if I were a coder that from time to time has to launch Gimp to create a placeholder icon for my code. The app (Gimp) in Windows runs very fast in my old rig (many times faster than Photopea). In every typical operation. Just like Blender, is very fast, high performance. And yep, I am aware about exact differences, with same hardware, in Win/Linux benchmarks in for example, Blender Cycles renders. But for usual workflows (I'm not rendering 24/7) is not that big that compensates for the lack of MANY graphic apps and utilities. Also, most apps of the kind use very alien libraries to the Windows OS, is  quite common the startup time (Blender and Wings3D load instantly , though). So, nope... the speed advantage might be real a synthetic one, in a normal day it doesn't matter, at least for an advanced freelancer. For a render farm or any kind of server, that's another story, obviously.  I can't trade pro software (not just of the types we're speaking about) for some wait time which is definitely insignificant in my everyday work.


Affinity Designer and Affinity Photo licenses, Windows 7, i7  860 (2009) 2.8 GHz,  8 GB RAM, GTX 1050 2 GB, HD 7200 RPM.  Wacom Intuos 4 XL.

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@SrPx, how long does it take for GIMP to start on your system?

Under Linux, on my old i7 920,  it takes 8 seconds. At most. On the same system, in Windows, it takes about 2 minutes.

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Affinity doesn't work under Wine, but has someone tried using Proton (Wine fork by Valve focusing on graphics), or Darling (MacOS compatibility layer) with Affinity for Mac?

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Other duopoly Microsoft/Apple application? when I see the news of a new graphic design application I thought that it will really make a difference, but I see that it is not like that.

I have a software development company and we must forcefully use Krita because all our teams use some distribution based on Debian for security reasons and unfortunately we can not buy Adobe licenses because Adobe does not support us. All that remains is to wait for another company that really offers a multiplatform application for design to appear.

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Duopoly? Nope, is just where there are more sells, typically. At least, fully tested and with solid numbers in this particular field. Obviously not considering how many servers are running Linux, or the IOT, or , the other several areas where Linux wins by physical K.O. Each field has its own world and characteristics, like: market, user base, OS adaptation to the particular profession workflows, drivers for the pro hardware devices of the field (typically brutally expensive hardware in graphics content creation, as to then find out there's no driver for sth so "rare" and "specific", u might say the vendors are the culprit for not providing a driver for Linux, and we enter in an endless circle (the chicken and the egg dilema), as the companies can't move to some place where they are not seeing currently demostrable profit possibilities.),  so, not having the needed  "ecosystem", like also even other graphic software apps, which often need to be the ones that currently the other companies and clients are actively using, due to native formats, other forms of compatibility, etc, etc.

(btw, convincing/seducing/constructive arguments are way more effective for whatever the target than a pseudo attack... )

Software development... Well, I have worked in a bunch of those, and also in video games ones, and the latter could make more use of pure painting programs (yet image editing is more heavily needed even in those), but the former typically need solely image editing tools, speaking about the raster tools. So...Why krita and not Gimp? (apart from people being scared / not savvy about its UI (any minimal serious 2 weeks of training ends with that issue, totally, with average brains )). Gimp is a pure image editing software with a lot of depth in it, while Krita (and I directly heard this from its authors, having a coffee) with all due respect, is NOT a tool for image editing (despite having some light image editing features, very limited, as becoming that kindda tool is not its purpose). Krita is for painting. Is not a Photoshop-like, so, obviously neither a tool like Affinity Photo or Gimp.  But Gimp is a fully fledged image editor in many senses. And open source, in the FOSS philosophy, unlike Affinity or Photopshop, which are not only commercial tools, but also closed source. The opposite to what the FOSS line is. People just have little clue of how actually powerful it (Gimp) is (3/4 of what happens with Inkscape, as well). I'm shocked to have to say this, defending Gimp as an effective tool and as a pure open source solution, to FOSS users, well, that's Linux users, by definition... or should be, but all the good habits are vanishing at the speed of light .... gasp.

Specially if a company is a software developer, as then the use cases would typically go from making icons, splash screens, banners, graphics for the company sites and any web apps, stuff for corporate image and print, etc, etc. All of which is pure image editing (Gimp) and graphic design ( a vectorial package then, like Inkscape  + Scribus), not painting, so not the task of a digital painting tool (as is Krita). Although if the "only option left to be considered", is Krita, that tells us that the need is in the raster tool, in this case, the solution sought is of the kind of Gimp/Affinity Photo/Photoshop. Newcomers (ie, "1 post") here don't know the mare magnum of requested features and stuff right now in the works, fronts opened (launching /polishing Publisher, maintaining versions of two (or three) apps in Win/Mac/iOS...and we can't even guess the iceberg tip of it)), so , some might very wrongly think after hearing a "thank you, but no thank you" that is just the company's desdain (while we even know now that some staff members actually like Linux). Or worse, that the company hasn't got a right to decide about its own money related risks to take... They are having the same intensive wave multiplied by a major factor in every single feature, professional niche, infinite variants of needs, performance and stability (both of which are the only ones I very personally (arguable, I admit it) would request now! ).

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we can not buy Adobe licenses because Adobe does not support us. 

But... one can run PS CC on Wine. (ie, in WineHQ PS CC 2015 is in gold rating, 2018 Silver).  Isn't that enough ?


Affinity Designer and Affinity Photo licenses, Windows 7, i7  860 (2009) 2.8 GHz,  8 GB RAM, GTX 1050 2 GB, HD 7200 RPM.  Wacom Intuos 4 XL.

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Posted (edited)

Hi,

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But... one can run PS CC on Wine. (ie, in WineHQ PS CC 2015 is in gold rating, 2018 Silver).  Isn't that enough ?

Wine can not use GPU, the performance is very bad and unestable, i can not run Adobe CC over Wine, Playonlinux or Proton without crashes on big projects (400mb of size or more).

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Duopoly? Nope, is just where there are more sells, typically. At least, fully tested and with solid numbers in this particular field. Obviously not considering how many servers are running Linux, or the IOT, or , the other several areas where Linux wins by physical K.O. Each field has its own world and characteristics, like: market, user base, OS adaptation to the particular profession workflows, drivers for the pro hardware devices of the field (typically brutally expensive hardware in graphics content creation, as to then find out there's no driver for sth so "rare" and "specific", u might say the vendors are the culprit for not providing a driver for Linux, and we enter in an endless circle (the chicken and the egg dilema), as the companies can't move to some place where they are not seeing currently demostrable profit possibilities.),  so, not having the needed  "ecosystem", like also even other graphic software apps, which often need to be the ones that currently the other companies and clients are actively using, due to native formats, other forms of compatibility, etc, etc.

There are no graphics drivers ?, Nvidia provides drivers officially for quite some time, I think you've been in a very old time on what was GNU / Linux.

Today there is something so "strange" as Software and Hardware, for example Id Software has launched all its biggest Linux games in a completely native way without virtualization or software interpretation, for example Doom4, Other companies like the creators of Tekken 7 have given support for Linux environments and so I could mention many developers under the SteamOS distribution. It is enough to support gnome or kde and that's it.

If Linux is a sunken market, then why has Microsoft bet on it?, Google has not released its suites for Windows and Mac, but has tried to focus on online applications to maintain a livable coexistence with systems such as Linux.

But, let's talk about the desktop environment.

It is unfair (as I have said in the Adobe forums) to compare the entire world of the Desktop with possible users of a specific application, bearing in mind that not all desktop users are possible target users of a single product (commercially speaking ). Are 100% of Windows users a target audience? No, but this percentage that Windows uses and that if it can be a possible user is more than enough to invest. With Linux the situation is different since the vast majority of Linux users are people with computer skills, generally software developers, usually a software developer must also do layout and design. We could conclude that Linux has a lower quota of use of the desktop than Windows, but it does not mean that it has such a significant quota in the use of graphic design applications and software development.

But, let's talk about the business strategy.

The largest companies know, money is not everything, a great business also includes the satisfaction of your customers and potential customers, great ideas become big projects, ideas that are helpful to people. Infinity born from the idea of satisfying a need for designers or simply generating money because of something you have to live ?, Coarsely speaking you have to earn money, but the vision of a company can not be based on obtaining money but on how to help your customers. For this reason Lightworks, Skype and many others not only offer solutions for Mac and go far beyond what they can sell, for example the contributions made by Google to society through its technologies.

A closed company that says it will not support a number of people because it does not leave money is because it has serious problems of direction, vision and mission.

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Software development... Well, I have worked in a bunch of those, and also in video games ones, and the latter could make more use of pure painting programs (yet image editing is more heavily needed even in those), but the former typically need solely image editing tools, speaking about the raster tools. So...Why krita and not Gimp?

Do you confess that Kitra and Gimp can replace Infinity Photo?. Krita is a better alternative (You can use multiple layers, vectorize, apply the same styles of Photoshop on the layers, even use the same tecturas, the layout of tools are inspired by photoshop, the filters are not only similar but are placed in the same order, etc. By copyright issues it can not be the same as photoshop but it is the best alternative that exists) but it is still very unstable, it is difficult to work with complex layers. I think Adobe Photoshop and Infinity Photo are better software and would save me a lot of time in design, besides having better support. That he wants it for Linux does not mean that it should be free.

Gimp is an editor of images and not of vectors, for which, to perform a complex work as a flyer composed of images and vectors without losing quality when resizing is impossible. We both know that Krita and Gimp are not a replacement for Infinity, although it's not worth continuing to argue.

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Specially if a company is a software developer, as then the use cases would typically go from making icons, splash screens, banners, graphics for the company sites and any web apps, stuff for corporate image and print, etc, etc

Clearly you are not a software developer and you are not involved, but I do, I have more than 20 years of experience in different softwares and graphic design companies and I can correctly say that you are wrong.

A company that creates software not only creates software. Commercially speaking, a company must be scalable, that is, it must have more than one business area, it can not put everything in one hand. Many companies that develop software or freelancers must create the website, make their layout, flyers, corporate image, promotional videos, etc. Generally, software development companies are also producers, marketing, market research, implementation of technologies, etc. All these companies and freelances are closing their doors on their faces because "it does not leave enough money".

If Infinity photo were available for Linux, what would change is that companies would no longer need desktop computers with linux and designers with mac, this would eliminate the great cost of having to buy a mac computer. That's why I say:

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Duopoly? Nope, is just where there are more sells, typically

Yepe, it's a duopoly, but you may not know it or you do not want to know.

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here don't know the mare magnum of requested features and stuff right now in the works, fronts opened (launching /polishing Publisher, maintaining versions of two (or three) apps in Win/Mac/iOS...and we can't even guess the iceberg tip of it))

Publisher is like the song that nobody listens to from a musical group that became famous for a single song. Let's talk about graphic design editors.

Thanks for the patience to read.

Edited by WHK102

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6 hours ago, WHK102 said:

Wine can not use GPU, the performance is very bad and unestable, i can not run Adobe CC over Wine, Playonlinux or Proton without crashes on big projects (400mb of size or more).

Oh, I heard from some people being able to do so, that's a bit shocking....

6 hours ago, WHK102 said:

There are no graphics drivers ?, Nvidia provides drivers officially for quite some time, I think you've been in a very old time on what was GNU / Linux.

Obviously I was not referring to just a mainstream graphic card. That's too standard. There's not for my hardware color calibrator, for example (I don't need it as I don't use Linux anymore ( I used it for longer than all the linux users friends I have) , I looked it up for curiosity the other day. I've read in almost everywhere that happens with a bunch of scanning hardware, plotters, pro monitors, etc.  Pro devices are asked by fewer people than say, your regular GTX card, so it happens to be more a case of  (often extreme) luck. You can opt by not believing me in that, and then I cannot add anything more.... But no issue.

6 hours ago, WHK102 said:

Today there is something so "strange" as Software and Hardware, for example Id Software has launched all its biggest Linux games

In my professional needs, games do not constitute any of my problems or concerns. Not even for my game developer friends ( I worked in those places for long, and also as a freelancer for games) who code in whatever platform and then export. They only care in the maximum sells markets, whatever it are them at each moment. Like a 99% of them are Windows based, and this means devs from all tiers ( a pair working in AAA titles, some working in mid size studios (Unity), others which Iost track of, but they were already in the AAA thing. Aaaall Windows. But these are devrs, not gamers. if you'd play as a job, ie in competitions, etc (that people play games like 8 hours per day, as minimum), then I'd see the relevance.

The only way I could seriously care about games is if I was a pro gamer and earned money with it, which isn't the case. So it doesn't affect me in anything in which platform people play games. Not me, and not to other friends of the several fields I've touched.

6 hours ago, WHK102 said:

If Linux is a sunken market, then why has Microsoft bet on it?,

Ok, please.... let's be at least slightly accurate. I have not said anything like that. Plus that would be a broad (and so, lacking  all precision) statement. Indeed it was explicit in my paragraph : I was implying how BIG is the thing IS in servers, IOT devices, science, a large part of the film industry, etc. And I would have NEVER used the word sunken for Linux (remember, I was a Linux heavy user. I still like it). Microsoft bet on it is WIDLY criticized in the Linux community. Some call it the bear's (or the cobra's) hug. If anything, I wouldn't be happy of that happening. Almost every time MS does that (to apps, tools, etc, which were competing with some of its interests) is to assimilate, absorb, stagnate it and finally eliminate (including -till then- independent members of organizations in a paid seat goes a long way, too). Probably now is a case of it simply is easier for them for IOT and other devices, they need that tiny and solid kernel in the things they know it will do better for them (which is... lol... far from adopting it in a positive way. Be wary.... ). Let's not be candid with MS....

Plus, that's not what I was talking about. I was being specific about the graphics creation market, the professionals for graphic content creation (illustrators, graphic designers, etc) I was being very careful to not do a broad statement about the entire market of an entire OS (that'd be an almost impossible to make estimation). We all know in many system related, programming, network stuff and other areas linux is quite relevant, in some king. So, this was far from being the point I was describing. Is about DTP pros, people working in design for print, illustration, may types of design, and etc, which is a large part of the target users of Affinity. I wouldn't dare to doubt the size, power, reach and strength of Canonical , Red Hat, etc. And again, the term sunk or anything equivalent, never in my mind. If anything, Linux is evolving.

I am not sure if you did read my lines carefully (in general, for all what I am reading below...)

6 hours ago, WHK102 said:

Google has not released its suites for Windows and Mac, but has tried to focus on online applications to maintain a livable coexistence with systems such as Linux.

Or because in a way Google is competing in certain areas with Win and Mac OS. But you can make Linux the focus of it, too.

6 hours ago, WHK102 said:

It is unfair (as I have said in the Adobe forums) to compare the entire world of the Desktop with possible users of a specific application, bearing in mind that not all desktop users are possible target users of a single product (commercially speaking ). Are 100% of Windows users a target audience? No, but this percentage that Windows uses and that if it can be a possible user is more than enough to invest. With Linux the situation is different since the vast majority of Linux users are people with computer skills, generally software developers, usually a software developer must also do layout and design. We could conclude that Linux has a lower quota of use of the desktop than Windows, but it does not mean that it has such a significant quota in the use of graphic design applications and software development.

I'm not fully able to see your point in that paragraph, got me lost a bit , there. So... you are a software developer. I get that you are a programmer who has to make some design works, due to the actual workflow, correct me if  that's not the case. I can tell you the 99% of graphic designers, illustrators, game artists, 3D generalists ( and I have worked in all those profiles, professionally, been paid a salary (and always praised for, hehe) for that...and even more hats... SEO, web development and design, etc...) I DO handle graphic content creation software more hours a day, and deeper, with more depth and complexity than the usual programmer. At least in what is using the tool to produce graphics. If you think the opposite of that, then dig about the matter better in some reliable sources (not necessarily googling it). It's a thing too obvious, but you can dig info about it.

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We could conclude that Linux has a lower quota of use of the desktop than Windows, but it does not mean that it has such a significant quota in the use of graphic design applications and software development.

Windows-only in every single game studio I've put my foot on (and yep, I know quite use Macs, too) , worked for a year or the like (it varies a lot), and at software devs (BTW, in a particular one of those, not long ago, 7 years in one, as the sole person to produce ALL graphic content of all sorts, LOL. I know a thing or two, please trust me). In my latest one we had linux machines, windows machines, and macs. But was a very special case as was mostly all about virtualization and the cloud. Even if a large percentage of users were artists in Linux (they're not), still a nice % of very little is ...little. And I can tell you, the % of graphic artists in Linux is way lower than you seem to think it is. It has a heavy majority of programmers and system/network people. And nope, please, do not tell me the typical (we're speaking about stats, here, not special isolated cases) coder does know better to handle professionally the Adobe suite. There will be some rare instances,  by pure logic, but wont be the average. Is just specialization and how stats work. Even if some of us artists are jacks of all trades and in some very rare cases, some coders do count on pro skills on graphics.  This in any platform, in all the many souls I've known in the several places.

6 hours ago, WHK102 said:

The largest companies know, money is not everything, a great business also includes the satisfaction of your customers and potential customers,

I agree on the former (potential is a word full of risk, that is measured with care). Reason why they care about their current users (so, Win, Mac and iPad users). Is what pays the bills, salaries, electricity, renting, large marketing costs, etc, etc. This company have no clients in Linux, and seems wont for some time. Yeah, it could get them. The problem is that it is a risk, and it seems that in their estimation, right now (they have stated very clearly is a "for now", not a "never". Some people don't really get it) is that is too much of a risk, financially speaking. I'm guessing that if Canonical or Red Hat would put a bunch of money on the table (not some 500k, KS level) they'd might think it twice (or might not even need to think it). But for some reasons, seems those companies are not moving a single finger in that direction... Don't you find it strange ?

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Infinity born from the idea of satisfying 

Affinity. Although I hope it lasts "to infinity and beyond". Toy Story movies should have, too. Sigh.

6 hours ago, WHK102 said:

Coarsely speaking you have to earn money, but the vision of a company can not be based on obtaining money

The first step is that it generates money. You can have a vision for it, yeah, but the main thing is that it generates money as people need it for their families, and if they don't get their salary paid, they 'd go to where the grass is greener. Indeed, is pretty hard to retain the really good ones. And that's only one of the huge and many costs for a company.  And I can see how they pursuit a line of doing things different. I sense a entire philosophy of work and care. It doesn't have to be in your OS of choice to yet satisfy their vision. It might not be on Linux, and yet be innovative. Indeed, what really counts is the art and design you can do with the apps, not the OS where you install them. At least, from an artist POV, and also from a very practical and realistic  POV.

6 hours ago, WHK102 said:

for example the contributions made by Google to society through its technologies.

Microsoft makes many contributions of that and other kind (good sums of money), too. And so does Apple.  And BTW, with all the news we're hearing just this month, I hope you don't see Google like a all-what-is-good company..... (or maybe you haven't heard the news.... they're kindda scary.... )

6 hours ago, WHK102 said:

A closed company that says it will not support a number of people because it does not leave money is because it has serious problems of direction, vision and mission.

Absolutely not. Most companies do serve targeted clients (all the big data fuss, and privacy regulations are indeed 'cause the key now is to target specific niches of consumers). A portion (and which is it, how it breathes, etc) of them interested in their type of products. IE, canonical does not produce (or not massively, that I know of) Windows and Mac applications. And that's definitely leaving out "a number of people". But to focus on the main thing in that point, nope, it does not work so : A company focus in its specific users, consumers or buyers, call them however.  Not in the entire world. (well, maybe Coca-cola and Pepsi did in its day, but we're talking about a very specific niche : graphic content creation tools, and even static content,(ie, no video) and neither 3D.  Pretty specific. I can tell you my sister, who works in kind of laws and accountancy stuff, is certainly not interested in Affinity Photo)

6 hours ago, WHK102 said:

Do you confess

I confess that this brought a sincere smile to my face. It's a bit too dramatic expression for the context, but oki, I'll read....

6 hours ago, WHK102 said:

Kitra and Gimp can replace Infinity Photo?.

Indeed, that's completely impossible. I don't know about Serif making Infinity Photo... maybe it's a version with a number like the π number, with infinite digits ? 

Er ...sorry for the joke, is not meant badly (just the second instance of it deserved a pun...shows me you ...might (can't say for sure).... have not even downloaded and tested the trial, or have not read much about it. As the main word of the suite is not familiar to you enough, yet). 

Oki, replying a bit seriously, not exactly replace, no. Affinity Photo is clearly superior. But I have worked doing very serious work with Gimp and Inkscape. So, nope, is not a theory. I KNOW it. It has great lacks, of course,  but you can come with great workarounds. I did. For years, when they were worse than today.

Krita is a digital painting tool. Words from the author, while having a coffee. I'm not inventing anything, trust me. 

It by it self does NOT replace Photo in anyway. Not even replaces Gimp, as it does NOT have the image edit features that Gimp has. Simply as that. What I was saying is that you can, with effort (and zero cost in money) make a nice combo with the two, krita and Gimp, and do a lot of pro level work (with limitations). But using each for its best use. (Gimp image editing and some design, Krita for painting or drawing).

And I have not only used them professionally, I have seen real AMAZING wonders, very high end level, done with Gimp (image edit, photo editing) and Inskcape (vectors, design) created by others. So, the proof is not only in me. But they're hard UIs to learn and people today is really lazy.

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(You can use multiple layers, vectorize, apply the same styles of Photoshop on the layers, even use the same tecturas, the layout of tools are inspired by photoshop,

And??  That's just scratching the surface. That's not as key as you think it is, for the complexity of advanced workflows.  There's a ton of features in Gimp not present in Krita, which are absolutely essential for pro work ( at the same time, a lot of stuff in AP, not present in Gimp). The fancy modern stuff is nice for a wow effect, but it gets short pretty soon. Again, it's apples to oranges. You are comparing a digital painting tool with a quite versatile image editor (Gimp). Are you sure you have used both deeply, in professional projects, for long time?  It's just that it surprises me to no end that you are putting both in the same pile. No offense, tho.

6 hours ago, WHK102 said:

By copyright issues it can not be the same as photoshop but it is the best alternative that exists

WOW. Do you know that the actual Krita creator (or one of them) does NOT agree with that statement and that is tired to repeat that krita is NOT the kind of tool that Photoshop is? (by any stretch... apples to oranges, again). And please, tell me you don't seriously think that the copyright issues (and I believe you might refer here to not setting the exact same layout design, and the same names for some color profiles, the pantones and etc. If that's all the difference you actually see, it would explain a ton of things. In image editing (and all what Photoshop , that immense work horse does) it's like comparing the moon (now that is trendy again) to a huge galaxy. Just have a look at the image menu, for example. Seriously, if you have worked professionally with graphics you'd know ( So, I suppose you know)... I mean, my only hope is that you actually haven't really tested much any of these tools, and then all would make sense.

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 I think Adobe Photoshop and Infinity Photo are better software and would save me a lot of time in design, besides having better support.

[ Affinitrysh ]

Sorry.....   :o 

Actually, I agree with you there. It'd be a vast improve in anyone's workflow to swap Inkscape and Gimp with Photo and Designer , or susbtitute Krita with photo instead of Krita (mostly as is another kind of tool and for software development needs, is typically more convenient a set of tools like Afinity's suite) . But you say better than Krita, while the comparison would be fair by saying better than with Gimp and Inskcape, as are the comparable ones (and more capable than 90% of people think). And yes, currently (maybe for ever) , Affinity is by far the better combo. And yes, I believe you would gain a lot with having it. If you are a professional, 135 bucks for a Win 10 is peanuts, any other cost is bigger in pro work. So, buy that, make a dual boot, and install there your Affinity apps. Or, again, IMO, not a considerable expending, to have a second computer, ie , for graphics, with a Win 10, and mount a small network in your studio or place. I had it both ways (with a multiboot with many linux distros and a pair of Windows, for years), but also several PCs in the place, with a samba server or more comfy solutions. Easy peasy, and very functional. You have so all the gamma of relevant software to load and use, and you don't need to "reboot", just share the files by your network. And most relevant apps for pros work which are on the Mac, tend to be as well on Windows, and viceversa, so just with that set up, you have it all.  Serif has said it wont produce a Linux version for any time soon, so, that's a practical approach, IMO. And in pro workflows, I'm missing my second and third machines, it's always amazing to have sth rendering on the background (3D or video) , and that is totally cross platform, as my loved Blender works in everything, so does Davinci.

Oh, you actually say Affinity Photo and Photoshop would save you time (I guess is just a typo, as getting the two, is quite redundant. I suppose you meant Affinity Designer and Affinity Photo).

6 hours ago, WHK102 said:

Gimp is an editor of images and not of vectors, for which, to perform a complex work as a flyer composed of images and vectors without losing quality when resizing is impossible.

Of course ! In FOSS apps that's the role of Inkscape (as an example). A fully vector based app.  You can do a flyer as well in raster, in large resolution and then reducing to many formats.  But is not the proper thing to do in most design work.  Even so, you might have not worked at companies where there's a very low interest on purchasing software. I have, and it's a nightmare. Forced to do design work ONLY with raster tools. First years only with Gimp, then with PS. It stretches your flexibility like nothing else, lol.

6 hours ago, WHK102 said:

We both know that Krita and Gimp are not a replacement for Infinity, although it's not worth continuing to argue.

It would be an infinite debate, yes.

6 hours ago, WHK102 said:

Clearly you are not a software developer and you are not involved, but I do, I have more than 20 years of experience in different softwares and graphic design companies and I can correctly say that you are wrong.

Man, that was funny. I have worked for 25 years at 10 very different companies. 4 video games studios, 3 software developers (but one of them a veeeery long period in years), advertising agencies and web design firms, and I have been indeed the entire graphic department on my own at several places. Meaning, all the print works (including corporate image and etc) , the design in concept, graphics creation (entirely me, not a single person in a mid size company  knowing how to even launch Gimp, PS or MS Paint to save their lives) , gfx chopping and web code of all the companies' sites and portals (yeah, just try to imagine the amount of work, together with ALL the print stuff, a large part of the SEO, acting also as a sort of community manager and even tech support). 

But somehow (again, I say this entertained, not angry) you somehow mention, state,  that I have not been involved in certain businesses where I have worked almost all my professional life... well.

6 hours ago, WHK102 said:

A company that creates software not only creates software

I should know !  lol.... Of course the internal workflows are way more varied, I did not say anything in that line.. 

Quote

Many companies that develop software or freelancers must create the website, make their layout, flyers, corporate image, promotional videos, etc.

I was the sole person in charge of that during almost a decade in my last company. And way many more tasks. And that was only one of the companies. There's experience in 9 more. 

I mean, I'm not upset ! Just amazed for the assumptions (but entertained, in a good way. I mean, I'm having pure, healthy fun, gotta say).

Seriously, how did you extract the conclusion that because I was making a random selection of usual tasks, that was AAAALL. :D. I cannot even remember the overwhelming variety of areas I needed to MASTER (not just dabble with). 

I'm not trying to tell you I'm a genius. Just a friendly advice : Don't underestimate the skills  (I don't take offense, tho) of another worker if you don't know (well, not even if you would) his/her experience ( I did not, and do not know yours , so , I don't make any statement or assumption about it, it'd be crazy... But I'm seeing you don't realize which is the context in my case... maybe not even after my post. And there wont be much to do about it (not that it really matters).

But I digress (forced by what I've read, I gotta say). The main point I was making is that, today, in Linux, you can go a long way for the tasks you need to do (for software development companies or  many other types)  with Gimp, Inskcape, Scribus, and Krita is a good helper if you need to PAINT.  May you need the help of Little CMS (or just exporting to Scribus) for a CMYK "friendly" (being ironic here)  workflow. IMO, that's carrying  the love for the OS beyond what is important for a graphic professional, which should be the graphic result of the piece. Not the OS or... Like is neither the color of a hammer or screwdriver. You mind if your client is happy with the roof you've fixed or the car you repaired, and so that you can pay your bills that month. (that's pro work).

6 hours ago, WHK102 said:

All these companies and freelances are closing their doors on their faces because "it does not leave enough money".

Every entity, company or organization in this cruel world's main worry is getting income. That's companies' main motto.  It is way more upsetting that entire families with even toddlers are pulled to the cold street for not having enough money to pay a rent. Or that plagues that the 1st world could very easily terminate in areas of Africa, are still kicking due to the almost unconcerned first world. I reserve all my share of anger for injustice for those cases. I don't have "infinite" energy as to be also upset about every software company that doesn't go in line with my sovereign will. 

6 hours ago, WHK102 said:

Yepe, it's a duopoly, but you may not know it or you do not want to know.

They fight each other  (and historically have, at times fiercely) enough to not consider them a duo in anything....

6 hours ago, WHK102 said:

Publisher is like the song that nobody listens to from a musical group that became famous for a single song. Let's talk about graphic design editors.

Nobody? Or you, particularly ? There are tons of pro users very interested on it. And is the perfect third wheel. A DTP suite tends to get the 3 : the graphic designer, the raster editor, and a publishing software. Adobe cloud was not always this dense, and since always we had mostly our Freehand (then Illustrator), Photoshop, and Quark (or the arcane Page Maker, or now InDesign, and the several others). Is not a "song that nobody listens to", is an absolutely essential kind of tool, supporting all what is editing and publishing. Is (be it ID, Quark, or whatever...hopefully in some years, Publisher) what they ask in every advertising agency as a super freaking must, is what yes or yes is installed in every printing company.... ahem. Publishing moves gazillions of money and business activity.

6 hours ago, WHK102 said:

Thanks for the patience to read.

No problem ! :) 

I'm patient, and it was entertaining.


Affinity Designer and Affinity Photo licenses, Windows 7, i7  860 (2009) 2.8 GHz,  8 GB RAM, GTX 1050 2 GB, HD 7200 RPM.  Wacom Intuos 4 XL.

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I am not sure if you did read my lines carefully (in general, for all what I am reading below...) 

Excuse me, I try my best to try to understand as much as I can. I do not understand English, I only speak Spanish and I am making a great effort to use the Google translator and filter the writing errors that are possible for me.

I have seen a very clear intention on your part to try to refute (with justification or not) most of the issues, but you are not impartial with respect to the existing editors, you are not able to assume where you are not right and then rebut. I understand that it will be difficult to find a point of flexibility where we can reach a mutual agreement. I do not know if you work for Afinity or you are a purist of the brand, but it is difficult to show our views and this can also cause confusion in people who have the ability to make decisions in the company and read your messages.

With respect to the use of GPU on Wine, it is possible to perform a passthrough, but this requires that my operating system can not use the screen or that it has more than one screen and more than one graphics card. It costs less money to buy a Windows license. I do not think it is a comfortable, official or recommended alternative.

Redhat will clearly never take a step to create a graphic design editor because it is not their vision or mission, Redhat is focused on servers and productivity in the management and administration of systems, it is like saying that a butcher shop softwares. Canonical is a bad example, they have very bad taste for design and do not give importance to the experience of the end user, to my point of view canonical is a company badly organized in many ways with a mentality of a grandfather of 90 years, so that you will hardly ever see that Canonical is dedicated to creating a graphic editor or more robust applications, they are very busy solving bugs and giving support with hardware compatibility, selling support, etc. Canonical never had a clear vision in this regard. I use ubuntu for convenience but in user environment I prefer Mac, although in tools and versatility I prefer gnu / linux, the problem is that there is nothing really useful like Photoshop or Afinity Photo for gnu / linux and I hope you understand me, but that causes a lot of frustration

Quote

The first step is that it generates money. You can have a vision for it, yeah, but the main thing is that it generates money as people need it for their families, and if they don't get their salary paid, they 'd go to where the grass is greener. Indeed, is pretty hard to retain the really good ones. And that's only one of the huge and many costs for a company.

Quote

But to focus on the main thing in that point, nope, it does not work so : A company focus in its specific users, consumers or buyers, call them however.  Not in the entire world.

I do not agree with your fracas, anyway we both know that what you explain is not an absolute truth, your words I take it as a personal point of view only.

My point of view is completely different from yours, a company must not only ensure to generate money as a main cause, I know that your workers need money and its owner too. A company must be based on principles, a company without a user can not exist, just as a government without people can not exist, a company is not a virus or a tumor, it must be a medicine that helps the body that we are all of us, giving a value added to the community through its services. For example, a bank must exist to maintain the economic stability of a country, but it also has tools that facilitate its use for people, through mobile applications, virtual executives, etc. Clearly there is a commercial competition, but I also believe that we should not be blind to people and believe that the world revolves around money. Large companies that have this mentality have grown enormously as has Go Outdoors, Virgin and the like.

My opinion is not based on what I believe simply, but also on facts, studies and advice. I am not saying that your arguments are not based on studies, but I do say that my argument can be as valid as yours, although I must admit that under my arguments the business models work better.

It is impressive to recognize that it is necessary to reach this point trying to argue commercial points of view to try to explain the need to have a technical tool.

If the creator of Krita has stressed that his software is not a replacement for Photoshop it is because he clearly wants to avoid lawsuits, I have used Krita and Photoshop and it is largely a brazen but legal copy.

Quote

They fight each other  (and historically have, at times fiercely) enough to not consider them a duo in anything.... 

Or that looks like legal issues.

Quote

But somehow (again, I say this entertained, not angry) you somehow mention, state,  that I have not been involved in certain businesses where I have worked almost all my professional life... well. 

Sorry, but for your comments, it did not look like it.

With regard to the use of color profiles, I give you every reason.

Quote

Nobody? Or you, particularly?

I mean the total number of users that we publish. If 100000000 use your graphic editor but 10000 use the other software, it does not mean that it has few users (I guess it happens in a similar way when trying to compare the possible users of graphic editors between windows and linux. If linux has a low percentage of users this does not mean that the numerical quantity is low.).

In the other topics that you mention, they are redundant topics that we already argued and would be in an infinite loop.

I can conclude personally:

If you were working in my company I would hire you as a programmer and not for the business area definitely.

I think your arguments in several points are valid, but in others, no, anyway your arguments, whether they have a real basis or not, are not official, which is why I prefer a "good debate", but not to understand what the company in charge of Afinity really thinks about it. Even they may have a mentality totally contrary to yours, so, try to continue to refute your views would be like doing it with the person sitting next to me, we would only have conclusions but without any progress.

It would be interesting, as once happened in the Adobe forum, that we could see the response of a person who can give an answer in an official way (or as close as possible to the official) about whether someday they will have intentions or not to launch your products for the Linux environment.

I feel that somehow, all of us who have debated in this thread have lost time. I do not mean that the points of view discussed here are not valid, but we have been discussing an important issue only among ourselves without knowing the company's point of view, so even if we have millions of answers, the company can simply observe comfortably without pronouncing about it.

I have also concluded that my comments about a blind company without vision does not necessarily apply to this since we do not know how to think. This opens a gap in the possibility that some day we may see some application for Linux.

I hope that over time we can see a real solution for Gnu / Linux users. I hope that this race for money does not end up affecting people negatively (more than what they have already done). I do not want to say that the commercial world has not created great things, but just as it has created them, it has also destroyed them.

Science, art, philosophy, bases of many civilizations, not everything in life or in the growth of the human being is translated into money.

As long as I live, I will try to believe that it is still possible.

 

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I do not understand English, I only speak Spanish 

Habérmelo dicho, quillo ! 

Luego te contesto, que acabo de poner un mega post y tengo cosas que hacer....

Quote

It would be interesting, as once happened in the Adobe forum, that we could see the response of a person who can give an answer in an official way (or as close as possible to the official) about whether someday they will have intentions or not to launch your products for the Linux environment.

Edit : Just a fast answer. If your main motivation is to seek a company statement about  this, if you read this thread, or the other about this that is often bumped, they have replied to it many times ( I even compiled a post with all their replies, saying mostly the same) . Is a bad moment for me now, but I will put you the link to that post where all those staff statements are collected (linked)

But in very few words, as a summary :

The company has stated that they are not denying to do a linux port some day. It is just that they are not interested to do so with the current situation and state of things related to Linux and what would mean producing and maintaining a version for it. Meaning, basically, they don't say "no". they just say "not now". Although it also sounds, remembering all the answers, as neither any time soon. (unless some drastic change would happen in the Linux scene, or anything related to it) 

Not solely due to what they see in the Linux scene as a market for their specific products , but the complex situation of it in relation to their actual resources that would be needed to divert, their small staff, etc. And it being a financial risk for a small company.

I hope to have been as objective and correct to what they have responded as possible. It takes me some time to dig for my post with direct links to all their answers. I'll do it tomorrow or later. Well, not in the case that some staff replies. But it'd be a bit redundant, as this thread is full of their (repeated) reply.

Que no es que digan que no la quieran hacer nunca, pero que por ahora no. Que no se dan las condiciones, son una empresa mediana-pequeña, no tienen los recursos de una gran corporación, ni una plantilla enorme de programadores. Pero que nos suena a que caso de que sí, iría para largo, no hay la menor señal de que pretendan hacerla, de momento.

 


Affinity Designer and Affinity Photo licenses, Windows 7, i7  860 (2009) 2.8 GHz,  8 GB RAM, GTX 1050 2 GB, HD 7200 RPM.  Wacom Intuos 4 XL.

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Affinity Designer and Affinity Photo licenses, Windows 7, i7  860 (2009) 2.8 GHz,  8 GB RAM, GTX 1050 2 GB, HD 7200 RPM.  Wacom Intuos 4 XL.

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Posted (edited)

Hello, I have asked the official email if they have plans for Linux and they have answered me no.

I leave a copy of the email in Spanish:

Quote
Hola, muy buenas tardes, me gustaría obtener una respuesta oficial por parte de la compañía sobre el siguiente tema:
Sería interesante que la comunidad de Linux conozca las intenciones reales de la compañía para no continuar divagando sobre la posibilidad de la existencia de algún producto para Linux o no y evitar confusiones y discusiones.
 
He ingresado al sitio WEB en español y he visto la sección de "contacto", pero en ningún lugar estipulan si solo contestan correos redactados en inglés o no, por lo cual asumí que si el sitio estaba traducido al español y que a demás en la página de contacto no decía nada, era porque me pueden responder en el mismo idioma.
 
Muchas gracias.

Response:

Quote

Hola yhojann

Gracias por tu email.

Actualmente no tenemos planes de llevar nuestras aplicaciones a Linux, lo siento.

Hay varios empleados de Serif que se han declarado como tales en esa misma publicación del foro.

Saludos cordiales,

Steven

Ok, I think it is not worth continuing this debate, it has been very clear to me the intentions of the company in every way, it is a matter of seeing that they do not even deign to tell me what the mission or vision of the company is. Thanks for the time.

Edited by WHK102

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On 7/19/2019 at 10:27 PM, WHK102 said:

Hello, I have asked the official email if they have plans for Linux and they have answered me no.

I leave a copy of the email in Spanish:

Response:

Ok, I think it is not worth continuing this debate, it has been very clear to me the intentions of the company in every way, it is a matter of seeing that they do not even deign to tell me what the mission or vision of the company is. Thanks for the time. 

BOOM!

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I doubt anyone of importance will read this but I'd like to chime in and say I use GNU Linux nearly exclusively. I'm not a developer and if anything the install process was easier than windows. I just use it for video editing and "normal" computer usage. I do my photo editing in photoshops webapp and draw vectors in inkscape. I'd drop inkscape and photoshop in an instant for affinity, so just know there is a customer base.

Also to those that seem to be bashing the idea, it's a good idea for more platforms to be supported. AFAIK no pro image software has tried to sell itself on GNU Linux so it is a tricky thing to compare I get, but I can't really see it being a net loss for the company, compiling wouldn't be too hard because it is afterall the same hardware. I mean if davinci can do it I believe in affinity!

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On 7/24/2019 at 1:59 PM, ( ・ิω・ิ) said:

if davinci can do it

Resolve has been Linux-based for a long time because of their big 5-figure price tag control surface.  The fact that they have now separated the control surface from the Linux software version is not nearly as big of a change as updating something that doesn't already run on Linux to now do so.

 

Also, I would estimate that Linux is dwarfed compared to the other two major platforms among the customer base Serif is shooting for, compared to a smaller overall market base for a program like Resolve, where the proportional installed base for Linux is almost certainly going to be much more strongly represented.

 

I don't disagree that it would be nice to have a Linux version of the Affinity products available, but I don't believe Resolve represents a useful comparison.

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On 10/1/2017 at 5:32 AM, corsseir said:

Linux is more popular on the desktop than macOS now - https://netmarketshare.com/ -> Desktop Trend (6.91%). NetMarketShare is a company which is sponsored by Microsoft, so I believe that their data is reliable enough. Taking statistics into account, what would be your response about Linux version of Affinity Photo and Designer?

Screenshot from 2017-10-01 14-42-27.png

I'm a huge fan of Linux. I run the Debian-based MX Linux as my daily driver on my laptop. I'd LOVE to have the Affinity Suite available to me on Linux. :)

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I switched to Manjaro Linux from Windows a year ago because I was fed up that on windows my i7 laptop's fan was constantly running with full speed even if I only browsed the web.

With linux it's a hole different ballgame. I use all sorts of CAD/3D Printing/Programming/Web Editing/Video Editing software and they all fly. As if I had a band new computer.
There is no performance degradation over time and being able to finally have full control over my notebook (I decide when I update, etc.) makes productive work much easier.

I spent a lot of time on different (Linux) forums and to me it's clear that the amount of people switching to Linux is massively increasing every day. 
There are so many desktop options (I use Deepin) that everyone finds his/her favorite and as more and more software is ported to Linux, the above red slice will increase very fast.

And here comes Affinity Photo. Although Gimp and Krita are fine tools but I use Photoshop at work and Affinity Photo would be the perfect tool for photo editing at home.
As there are more and more professionals use Linux, it is no longer a nerd OS and so there will be more and more people willing to pay for software on Linux.
 

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Posted (edited)

Blender 2.80 and Black Magic DaVinci Resolve and Lightworks brought me to this thread. 

As part of a Linux workflow it would be a brilliant Unique Selling Point for Affinity to work on a build for Linux. 

Apple GPU support is fraught with issues. Like Support for NVIDIA cards

Windows 10 is a good system using NTFS but crashes (and updates) way too much for a modern pro workflow 

Having at least Affinity Photo available on Linux would compliment the pro video / 3D workflow nicely.

Personally I would buy a separate licence for Affinity Photo on Linux if it were available

Edited by Andy Marsh

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On 8/9/2019 at 9:06 PM, Steve_K said:

As there are more and more professionals use Linux, it is no longer a nerd OS and so there will be more and more people willing to pay for software on Linux.

 

This is true. Red Hat Enterprise Linux was purchased for billions of dollars for a good reason!

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5 hours ago, Pipeliner said:

This is true. Red Hat Enterprise Linux was purchased for billions of dollars for a good reason!

Not just RHEL though, the whole company and it's entire, open source portfolio. 34 Billion for basically software support services.

But think about the companies that do run RHEL, and the opportunity for Volume Licenses for modern Design/Photo software that does run on that platform would be amazing as well as the consumer level that is starved for the applications.

Affinity is a Windows shop at it's core though, and looking at it's history, I'm not sure it has the resources to support that kind of development effort.

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4 hours ago, LucasKA said:

Not just RHEL though, the whole company and it's entire, open source portfolio. 34 Billion for basically software support services.

I mean...moving that kind of money, how is it that the initiative, budget, investment, can't come from there instead of all money and risk to be taken to be expected to come from a much, much smaller company ? While, by all means, the main one winning here would be Linux. Serif does not need the risk ( by all data, seems is doing pretty well), that has been made clear at this point . And I know is absolutely another business area (server/cloud/network/systems vs graphics creation) , but wouldn't the whole group of companies (is not only Red Hat) be already caring for this lack, if caring for the whole ecosystem of an OS ? I mean, clearly they have the resources (even in the sense of proposing something _really_ serious and sustainable to Serif). And I think it is even their duty, is in their main interest that Linux would win (or compete at same level in most areas) as a platform. And that apps ecosystem growth is much more difficult to happen if not attacking the seriously weak areas. Yeah, it does not affect their business area directly, but,IMO, yep in the big picture (no pun intended)...

I start thinking on how at certain older times Apple even improved its CPUs (pre intel) to get better performance in Adobe PS, or how MS, while Windows already didn't need it, as there were several pro apps for graphics by then, had studios coding several apps for graphics, or, in other cases, acquired companies  that weren't doing so well, to get the apps more into Windows environment instead of ending bankrupt (true that sunk others on purpose, but the OS had WAY enough graphics apps). And this is directly from the OS makers, but in the linux scenario, the big money is in the companies related with the cloud, servers, services for companies and etc. These are imo the ones that need to be making an effort, jointed or at least by one of the biggest, to get something to compete with at least the most basic Adobe (and Affinity, Corel, etc) apps, or, putting the needed -large- budget for encouraging these companies in risking it in a yet to be proved market for them. I mean, the ball is in their court, the way I see it. Unless they don't really care about the community and the OS they benefit from. But I would like to think is not the case. I'd be to think even Canonical has the resources for this. And what a thing to add to Ubuntu, by default... or, at least, be the heroes providing the funds for it, even as a closed source solution, eternally ported thanks to their continued investment (even if Serif making it). And once again, Serif might not feel in the mood for it. Is 200% their call, and have exactly ZERO obligation to do it. If anything, the only path is to convince/seduce them, rather than putting pressure of certain kind (bad pressure can indeed bring negative feelings about the idea for association: we're all humans).

4 hours ago, LucasKA said:

Affinity is a Windows shop at it's core though, and looking at it's history, I'm not sure it has the resources to support that kind of development effort.

I might be completely wrong in this (surely I am) , but I had always the impression that Affinity was first made in Mac OS, then ported to Windows. While the legacy products previous to Affinity, were Windows based. Again, I've never actually checked solid info about that.

Quote

I'm not sure it has the resources to support that kind of development effort.

This is my guess, too. Or they have them, barely, but see a huge potential risk, if going that route without any backing investment from some entity or company.(quite larger than the so mentioned KS, which was, and definitely is now, a really small number).

 

Edit: It seems I might not be wrong, after all, according to Wikipedia. "Affinity Designer began as a vector graphics editor solely for macOS". And as far as I can recall, then came the Windows version, then Photo came after it, also for Mac, then came the Windows version of it (no idea when the iOS versions came up, as I'm guilty of not dedicating any bit of attention span to the entire iOS platform).


Affinity Designer and Affinity Photo licenses, Windows 7, i7  860 (2009) 2.8 GHz,  8 GB RAM, GTX 1050 2 GB, HD 7200 RPM.  Wacom Intuos 4 XL.

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The strange thing is, that MacOS and Linux has much more common than MacOS and Windows. So it would not be such a huge task to port Affinity products to Linux after all. (At least not as huge as if only a Windows version would exist.)

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