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On 6/3/2018 at 11:11 AM, SrPx said:

Yep, I was speaking about Gimp, as the right alternative loyal linux users should support... And is fresh news that they have finally implemented GEGL, indeed, very good news (I do want Gimp and Krita to succeed, both indeed, despite having decided for Affinity).  You people keep pointing to the  technical matter of porting the (dunno if C++ and .NET in the case of Windows) while that is not the main issue. It is all about the matter of the company having no interest in porting to Linux, for business reasons, human resource usage, expected income  from it, availability (and I guess, to move to the UK) of professionals with certain curriculum of 15 years coding graphic apps of the level of Affinity's, Xara, etc.  You speak about it as if porting it to some Linux format or library was all pending barrier left... ! (is a matter of reading comprehension, maybe...)

Have you opened at least once Affinity Designer or Affinity Photo ? have you seen how complex and complete are these applications ? No way porting all that is gonna be a task of "minimal effort", IMO.

Topic is technical - issue of gimp is legal mature - gimp slow grow because software patent battle was in some point obstructive for it development.

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1 minute ago, R C-R said:

Nope. The only things you have 'brought on' are a painful to read demonstration of your inability to use the English language to communicate anything clearly, & your woeful lack of understanding of how commercial software development actually works.

 Nope. The only thing that you show is the lack of you soft skills... My English is B+ or better. An I exacly know how comercial software development cycles work. You and your buddy's only can insolt people rather than have a something to say... Be a man and say something... ¦]

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Topic is technical - issue of gimp is legal mature - gimp slow grow because software patent battle was in some point obstructive for it development.

er...Nope ! I know a "someone" who told me about the issues in the Gimp evolution. He was quite in contact with the people developing there. I'm not going to say anything very specific,  but that which you mention is far from being the only issue (a legal issue stopping its growth...nope, not the case). The problem of Gimp which I only would consider as really important is its lacks as a professional tool for printed media (and certain UI/workflow problems, in general). Yet so, it can provide it in combination with Little CMS, but the workflow is more cumbersome than it should be, and the lack of control for these matters damages any design for print workflow too much. Another issue is , it's a bit of an slow UI (in terms of literal speed, and in workflow steps/clicks. And lacking some crucial features. Yet though, I believe they are going to change that) ; things are getting improved fast, lately.

The main problem is in their concept of what is important for professional work. IMO. Is just my opinion, arguable in the way you want. And about their internal problems with the code base, well, GEGL comes indeed to help countering the limits imposed by that code base (indeed, GEGL WOULD allow adding a CMYK mode, as far as I understood,  but the roadmap and FAQs seem not to be reflecting this possibility other than for an extreme future). So, indeed, the only "legal" issue I could see as avoiding growth in some area, could be perhaps adding pantone libraries support. But for a lot of us, just a mere CMYK mode, and an ok PDF/X export (yet pantones are very needed for a lot of branding works, but hey...) with the usual stuff would have sufficed till some extent... now, is far from a priority, if you read their faq about CMYK. That's the problem, in the consideration of the matter. And I fear that with other professional related needs, it can just happen the same, that is just a demonstration sample,  if with something this important, that's the official position. So, nothing really being a technical problem here (at least, not now with GEGL -sort of- working) Is about decisions. From the group. Like making a Linux port here, is a business decision. That they have told infinite times here that is a path not to be taken any time soon.

And nope, the topic is not technical, because is not a topic where it is asked -as far as I've understood- to anyone HOW (they have told you, Patrick, they have the know-how to make that. So, you keeping Linuxsplaning them how to do it is as telling them: " I don't believe you, you are not capable of doing so. Let me teach you programming and system admin". Rude, don't you think ? ) could be made a port of Affinity to Linux. Is a request to Serif to develop a port of its software to the Linux operating system. Now, that's a lot of programmers' hours, years, and so, salaries, resources, and PR : Money, MANY costs. This is a business related request. Just not made by an investor, with money on the table.

Not willing to understand this, explained in so many ways, so clearly, leaves us to only a few possible conclusions : 1) The people asking has some cognitive problems. If so, I deeply apologize, and will explain anything needed, the times needed. in the little I can explain, as I am not from the company, I know the same than you do. 2) The people asking this think they will get what they exactly want by eroding everyone else patience : Not gonna happen. This would be even rude as well.  3) People is merely trolling to have some...laughs? but then, is just again some weak personality, low  intelligence case, and I'd refer again to 1), just obviously wouldn't waste a second more in explaining anything. 4) The ones asking have not even a grasp about what they are talking about, but they do think they know a lot, for an excess of arrogance. This seems too unbelievable, at least, till this almost comic extent. 5) people think crowdfunding is the solution to absolutely everything, no matter what. 6) Linux users think it's a moral debt (which this people think they can demand, even quite rudely at times) for any company of the whole world to make a Linux Port of their products. I started , at the beginning, thinking it was 6, then 5 and 2, but lately I believe is 1, 3 or 4. Or all of them,. Or some sort of weird combination.   


Affinity Designer and Affinity Photo licenses, Windows 7, i7  860 (2009) 2.8 GHz,  8 GB RAM, GTX 1050 2 GB, HD 7200 RPM.  Wacom Intuos 4 XL.

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2 hours ago, chiddekel said:

You and your buddy's only can insolt people rather than have a something to say...

You make this too easy. xD


Affinity Photo 1.7.3, Affinity Designer 1.7.3, Affinity Publisher 1.7.3; macOS High Sierra 10.13.6 iMac (27-inch, Late 2012); 2.9GHz i5 CPU; NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660M; 8GB RAM
Affinity Photo 1.7.3.155 & Affinity Designer 1.7.3.1 for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 13.1.2

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3 hours ago, R C-R said:

You make this too easy. xD

I know - this way I prove, that you concentrate on misspelled word rather than what that word mean... ¦]

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4 hours ago, SrPx said:

er...Nope ! I know a "someone" who told me about the issues in the Gimp evolution. He was quite in contact with the people developing there. I'm not going to say anything very specific,  but that which you mention is far from being the only issue (a legal issue stopping its growth...nope, not the case). The problem of Gimp which I only would consider as really important is its lacks as a professional tool for printed media (and certain UI/workflow problems, in general). Yet so, it can provide it in combination with Little CMS, but the workflow is more cumbersome than it should be, and the lack of control for these matters damages any design for print workflow too much. Another issue is , it's a bit of an slow UI (in terms of literal speed, and in workflow steps/clicks. And lacking some crucial features. Yet though, I believe they are going to change that) ; things are getting improved fast, lately.

The main problem is in their concept of what is important for professional work. IMO. Is just my opinion, arguable in the way you want. And about their internal problems with the code base, well, GEGL comes indeed to help countering the limits imposed by that code base (indeed, GEGL WOULD allow adding a CMYK mode, as far as I understood,  but the roadmap and FAQs seem not to be reflecting this possibility other than for an extreme future). So, indeed, the only "legal" issue I could see as avoiding growth in some area, could be perhaps adding pantone libraries support. But for a lot of us, just a mere CMYK mode, and an ok PDF/X export (yet pantones are very needed for a lot of branding works, but hey...) with the usual stuff would have sufficed till some extent... now, is far from a priority, if you read their faq about CMYK. That's the problem, in the consideration of the matter. And I fear that with other professional related needs, it can just happen the same, that is just a demonstration sample,  if with something this important, that's the official position. So, nothing really being a technical problem here (at least, not now with GEGL -sort of- working) Is about decisions. From the group. Like making a Linux port here, is a business decision. That they have told infinite times here that is a path not to be taken any time soon.

And nope, the topic is not technical, because is not a topic where it is asked -as far as I've understood- to anyone HOW (they have told you, Patrick, they have the know-how to make that. So, you keeping Linuxsplaning them how to do it is as telling them: " I don't believe you, you are not capable of doing so. Let me teach you programming and system admin". Rude, don't you think ? ) could be made a port of Affinity to Linux. Is a request to Serif to develop a port of its software to the Linux operating system. Now, that's a lot of programmers' hours, years, and so, salaries, resources, and PR : Money, MANY costs. This is a business related request. Just not made by an investor, with money on the table.

Not willing to understand this, explained in so many ways, so clearly, leaves us to only a few possible conclusions : 1) The people asking has some cognitive problems. If so, I deeply apologize, and will explain anything needed, the times needed. in the little I can explain, as I am not from the company, I know the same than you do. 2) The people asking this think they will get what they exactly want by eroding everyone else patience : Not gonna happen. This would be even rude as well.  3) People is merely trolling to have some...laughs? but then, is just again some weak personality, low  intelligence case, and I'd refer again to 1), just obviously wouldn't waste a second more in explaining anything. 4) The ones asking have not even a grasp about what they are talking about, but they do think they know a lot, for an excess of arrogance. This seems too unbelievable, at least, till this almost comic extent. 5) people think crowdfunding is the solution to absolutely everything, no matter what. 6) Linux users think it's a moral debt (which this people think they can demand, even quite rudely at times) for any company of the whole world to make a Linux Port of their products. I started , at the beginning, thinking it was 6, then 5 and 2, but lately I believe is 1, 3 or 4. Or all of them,. Or some sort of weird combination.   

I know person who use Gimp with plug-ins/addons for Professional in DTP service.  And yes there was CMYK support included.

Gimp has PDB - list of available procedures in Gimpie. The good news is that the browser works interactively. So it gives a lot of space to experiment.

For write a macro with it, you need a  simple text editor, and the syntax is pure Python

The python has ctypes module, so you can use the same in system shared c/c++ shared object file and extract it symbols to variable and use it function directly from shared object file ( the Linux equivalent of *.dll)

That power of gimp can be use for rapid extend functionaly of it. And no - GEGL Is not only library on whole Linux world

In project is use for example - Cairo vector graphics library..

And thanks to gimp python powers of c types module - you can use any compiled library and add it support to gimp.

So this is lite bit about gimp.

As far i know - all tools and libs are in place to make Linux version of Affinity suite work without wine app.

 

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In this topic I look for missing parts of Linux based aproche. I think work smart not harder. This is community of Pro?¿? on this forum... But in real is people making Neverending story's about system rather than Professional aproche to learn work and resolver problem by code ¦]

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1 hour ago, chiddekel said:

I know person who use Gimp with plug-ins/addons for Professional in DTP service.  And yes there was CMYK support included.

 

No. Gimp itself does NOT support CMYK,  Through a plugin (I think you are referring to Separate+) it can export and soft proof, but that's not a very complete workflow.  Eons away from even Krita (this is said by a bunch of members from both communities, they know CMYK mode has been left aside in Gimp, also in Inkscape. While in Krita and Scribus they have cared at least a bit about it). In Krita you can edit directly a image in CMYK mode. And of course, A.Photo , Photoshop, Xara, etc, do have a much more extensive support of CMYK, without needing to resort to an external plugin, which in any case is mostly a export/soft proof plugin.  GEGL is not the only library in Linux (when I said that?? )  but its integration in Gimp comes to help removing some very long term limitations which existence even Gimp community admits. But don't get me wrong : I like Gimp and I wish that it would evolve. But it  is not on par with commercial DTP software in Mac or Windows, yet, IMO. Indeed, what I said is that you all linux passionate users (geez, if Gimp were that advanced, none of you would be here...) should be helping Gimp development (they have very few coders, surely could use some help. Have you asked them to let you help there?), instead of coming to a closed source company asking for getting into some strange adventure... What surprises me more is that you are completely sure that the company should be interested in porting to Linux, no matter what. Kind of considering doing so a sort of moral debt to Linux or an obligation of some sort, is strange....


Affinity Designer and Affinity Photo licenses, Windows 7, i7  860 (2009) 2.8 GHz,  8 GB RAM, GTX 1050 2 GB, HD 7200 RPM.  Wacom Intuos 4 XL.

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It is legal case. Not all features can be put in Gimp - if of course talking about main baseline. That way is created the plugin registry repository - user on own risk install graphics plugins. Gimp development is base on how to reimplement mostly patented solution and avoid that patented code put in gimp - in short the same features but new implementations.

 

The most important case about that the patent is the case - round about 10 years early than Photoshop - resynthesizer plugin was in Gimp. The name in Photoshop Content Aware

http://logarithmic.net/pfh/resynthesizer

 

 

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4 hours ago, chiddekel said:

Most of all look for problem, instead look for solution.

What problem?  Most users of the Affinity products are totally unconcerned that there isn't a Linux version and Serif have made it very, very clear that they don't want to produce one.  Looking for a solution to a problem that doesn't exist is beyond futile!

4 hours ago, chiddekel said:

But in real is people making Neverending story's about system rather than Professional aproche to learn work and resolver problem by code ¦]

Seriously!!??  You still think that you're going to generate the demand and make the development and support cost effective by coding?


AP user, running Win10

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3 minutes ago, Patrick Connor said:

trying

Very! :D

 


Alfred online2long.gif
Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 1.7.3.481 • Windows 10 Home (4th gen Core i3 CPU)
Affinity Photo for iPad 1.7.3.155 • Designer for iPad 1.7.3.1 • iPadOS 13.2.2 (iPad Air 2)

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Just now, Patrick Connor said:

This feels very close to trolling

The same thought had occurred to me.


AP user, running Win10

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3 minutes ago, IanSG said:

What problem?

Could it be the inability to understand and/or willingness to ignore what the first 10 or so pages of this discussion have already beaten to death? :35_thinking:


Affinity Photo 1.7.3, Affinity Designer 1.7.3, Affinity Publisher 1.7.3; macOS High Sierra 10.13.6 iMac (27-inch, Late 2012); 2.9GHz i5 CPU; NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660M; 8GB RAM
Affinity Photo 1.7.3.155 & Affinity Designer 1.7.3.1 for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 13.1.2

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3 hours ago, IanSG said:

What problem?  Most users of the Affinity products are totally unconcerned that there isn't a Linux version and Serif have made it very, very clear that they don't want to produce one.  Looking for a solution to a problem that doesn't exist is beyond futile!

Seriously!!??  You still think that you're going to generate the demand and make the development and support cost effective by coding?

Yes xD

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3 hours ago, Patrick Connor said:

IanSG, thanks but I think we let this go. This feels very close to trolling as he is just not listening, I mean you got to admire his trying, but not his approach.

 

8 hours ago, SrPx said:

No. Gimp itself does NOT support CMYK,  Through a plugin (I think you are referring to Separate+) it can export and soft proof, but that's not a very complete workflow.  Eons away from even Krita (this is said by a bunch of members from both communities, they know CMYK mode has been left aside in Gimp, also in Inkscape. While in Krita and Scribus they have cared at least a bit about it). In Krita you can edit directly a image in CMYK mode. And of course, A.Photo , Photoshop, Xara, etc, do have a much more extensive support of CMYK, without needing to resort to an external plugin, which in any case is mostly a export/soft proof plugin.  GEGL is not the only library in Linux (when I said that?? )  but its integration in Gimp comes to help removing some very long term limitations which existence even Gimp community admits. But don't get me wrong : I like Gimp and I wish that it would evolve. But it  is not on par with commercial DTP software in Mac or Windows, yet, IMO. Indeed, what I said is that you all linux passionate users (geez, if Gimp were that advanced, none of you would be here...) should be helping Gimp development (they have very few coders, surely could use some help. Have you asked them to let you help there?), instead of coming to a closed source company asking for getting into some strange adventure... What surprises me more is that you are completely sure that the company should be interested in porting to Linux, no matter what. Kind of considering doing so a sort of moral debt to Linux or an obligation of some sort, is strange....

YES - gimp support CMYK. 
 

 

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One is technology boundaries in our mind, the second of it [technology] is implementation.
Gimp has less limits if any,  that were described by several trolls on this forum.

The gimp was only mentioned here because it makes for many by the hands of few. 

Code of it and plugins are open so can be base to product better solution in gimp and or other products.

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36 minutes ago, chiddekel said:

CMYK it's a space of color:
big_color-matching-lab.jpg

Thank you! I didn't know....


Affinity Designer and Affinity Photo licenses, Windows 7, i7  860 (2009) 2.8 GHz,  8 GB RAM, GTX 1050 2 GB, HD 7200 RPM.  Wacom Intuos 4 XL.

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1 hour ago, chiddekel said:

1721863820_Zrzutekranuz2018-06-0517-12-59.png.d27858dae70c542e2fdcb57e38772cae.png

Oh, please. Don't be one of those. You see some CMYK sliders  and then u conclude there IS cmyk support ???? Then.. Inkscape is FULLY CMYK supporting, following that scientific rule of yours... And while has some steps towards it, and color management, it is not.
Nope, is not really supported. I'm gonna use official sources, and VERY current (2018). Keep tuned to the next post.


Affinity Designer and Affinity Photo licenses, Windows 7, i7  860 (2009) 2.8 GHz,  8 GB RAM, GTX 1050 2 GB, HD 7200 RPM.  Wacom Intuos 4 XL.

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