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Affinity products for Linux


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56 minutes ago, Old Bruce said:

All you Linux fans here in this topic have a vision for a product, namely a graphics suite. What is stopping you? Lots of talk about crowdfunding for Affinity, why not go crowdfund for a brand new Graphics Suite Foundation and Institute and then make something better?

the same thing stopping most people from beginning a huge undertaking really, talking for myself at least I'm more than willing to admit programming anything close to something like gimp, let alone photoshop, is beyond my skillset, I do not have money and I'm not business savvy to startup a company but more than anything, I don't have the time for such a project. :) If I have time and money to start a business though, there are so many ideas I'd love to see through to fruition. Alas, everyone has ideas but like me, not everyone has the money, time or know-how. The most I've ever done (not including the stuff I work on for a living like sea of thieves, star citizen and a few lego games) is publish my own solo game on steam and that took what felt like a *lot* of time and effort for one person, and it's not even a complicated game. heck it's actually extremely basic but even something so basic is a large undertaking. :D

it would be a dream come true if the Blender Institute took on a Gimp fork but that will never happen lol

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2 hours ago, Old Bruce said:

For no discernible reason Gimp became MySpace and Blender became facebook

No, there's a good reason. The developers actually spent a good amount of time improving Blender, and keep to a regular release schedule, always offering features people want, and are comparable to the competition.

GIMP? Well, GIMP doesn't really do that. Their devs are planning on some nice new features, but we probably won't see them for another 4 to 6 years.

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I've been using affinity designer for 2 years (I have both Windows and macOS versions) and I still don't understand why they don't help people using affinity on linux.

Either by lutris or by linux. Since they don't want to make a version of linux because it's no use running using these tools.

I'm against having to create a virtual machine for this or having dual boot.

Anyway, there's no shortage of people to use affinity in linux!

It's sad to see here on this forum people making fun of anyone who wants to use linux!

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20 hours ago, j0e.org said:

Affinity missed his change.

Adobe is now filling the place: https://www.theverge.com/2022/6/14/23162580/photoshop-web-free-freemium-version-adobe

As you should understand this version of Photoshop will be a tryout. Less functionality as the abo version. 

If a Linux version of Photoshop & Co. were such a big fish, Adobe would have thrown out the fishhook long ago. But it makes no sense to develop for a few hundred users and then become a niche product on this platform. In the case of the Affinity programmes, Serif would have to multiply the purchase price to absorb the costs.

Don't come to me now with open source programmes, here free programmers work for free. Serif, like many of you starving people, has to earn money.

 

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On 6/19/2022 at 8:02 AM, Komatös said:

As you should understand this version of Photoshop will be a tryout. Less functionality as the abo version. 

If a Linux version of Photoshop & Co. were such a big fish, Adobe would have thrown out the fishhook long ago. But it makes no sense to develop for a few hundred users and then become a niche product on this platform. In the case of the Affinity programmes, Serif would have to multiply the purchase price to absorb the costs.

Don't come to me now with open source programmes, here free programmers work for free. Serif, like many of you starving people, has to earn money.

 

in all fairness, the number of linux users is in the several billions (that were able to be counted, which is quite difficult to count when linux typically doen't track users). How many of those people need a photo editor I dont know but it'd be unfair to say there's only a few hundred.

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On 6/16/2022 at 3:21 AM, msdobrescu said:

Anyway, following this topic over time, I must say that I see here posters that are obviously paid to discourage

You really think someone is paying people to think that Affinity on Linux is not a great idea for Serif? I don't think people really care all that much about Linux and certainly not enough to pay people to try and hold it back. No conspiracies here.... or have I just been paid to say this? Your will never know! Ok you will, I have not been paid. 

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3 hours ago, MattyWS said:

in all fairness, the number of linux users is in the several billions (that were able to be counted, which is quite difficult to count when linux typically doen't track users). How many of those people need a photo editor I dont know but it'd be unfair to say there's only a few hundred.

According to that you think almost half the world is using Linux? Not so, at least not directly as one is using a Mac or Windows computer. From your link:

"Around 1.69% of all home desktop computers were using Linux, as of July 2020. In July 2019, the percentage was 1.65% while in July 2010, the adoption rate was only 0.77%."

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20 minutes ago, wonderings said:

You really think someone is paying people to think that Affinity on Linux is not a great idea for Serif? I don't think people really care all that much about Linux and certainly not enough to pay people to try and hold it back. No conspiracies here.... or have I just been paid to say this? Your will never know! Ok you will, I have not been paid. 

I certainly hope so! I see no reason to insist that much against a Linux version from a private entity.

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4 minutes ago, wonderings said:

According to that you think almost half the world is using Linux? Not so, at least not directly as one is using a Mac or Windows computer. From your link:

"Around 1.69% of all home desktop computers were using Linux, as of July 2020. In July 2019, the percentage was 1.65% while in July 2010, the adoption rate was only 0.77%."

yes, one way or another you would likely have used linux be it chromeOS, Android, maybe you have cloud storage which is likely linux so it's used in the billions though obviously desktop users would be less. I can probably do some basic maths here just out of curiosity, if 250,000,000 computers are sold each year and about only 2% of those are going to linux users thats 5,000,000 linux users a year. Even if just 1% of that userbase wanted to use affinity photo (not including the rest of the suit) thats 50,000 sales a year, which would be at least £2,500,000 at £50 a sale each year. high numbers for 1% of the linux userbase. Maybe my numbers are wrong as they're really just estimates, which is why I mentioned if only 1% were interested because at least then it'd be fair if I overestimated the userbase. :)

Regardless, still more than a few hundred people like the guy above mentioned. I think it's only fair Linux get some credit as it's used world wide by a lot of people, even if it's only a small percentage of the global PC market.

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9 minutes ago, msdobrescu said:

I certainly hope so! I see no reason to insist that much against a Linux version from a private entity.

I don't think anyone is saying flat out no just because it is Linux, everything I read is reasons it does not make sense for Serif to develop for Linux. I don't think it is a good move for Serif, but think having more options for the consumer is not a bad thing. So yes Affinity for Linux would be great, just does not make a lot of sense for the company.

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1 minute ago, wonderings said:

I don't think anyone is saying flat out no just because it is Linux, everything I read is reasons it does not make sense for Serif to develop for Linux. I don't think it is a good move for Serif, but think having more options for the consumer is not a bad thing. So yes Affinity for Linux would be great, just does not make a lot of sense for the company.

Same thing.

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2 hours ago, MattyWS said:

I can probably do some basic maths here just out of curiosity,

How many of the quarter billion computers sold were replacement machines? Ditto for the five million that would be Linux. 

Mac Pro (Late 2013) Mac OS 12.7.4 
Affinity Designer 2.4.0 | Affinity Photo 2.4.0 | Affinity Publisher 2.4.0 | Beta versions as they appear.

I have never mastered color management, period, so I cannot help with that.

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23 hours ago, MattyWS said:

yes, one way or another you would likely have used linux be it chromeOS, Android, maybe you have cloud storage which is likely linux so it's used in the billions though obviously desktop users would be less. I can probably do some basic maths here just out of curiosity, if 250,000,000 computers are sold each year and about only 2% of those are going to linux users thats 5,000,000 linux users a year. Even if just 1% of that userbase wanted to use affinity photo (not including the rest of the suit) thats 50,000 sales a year, which would be at least £2,500,000 at £50 a sale each year. high numbers for 1% of the linux userbase. Maybe my numbers are wrong as they're really just estimates, which is why I mentioned if only 1% were interested because at least then it'd be fair if I overestimated the userbase. :)

Regardless, still more than a few hundred people like the guy above mentioned. I think it's only fair Linux get some credit as it's used world wide by a lot of people, even if it's only a small percentage of the global PC market.

Yes lots of devices are using Linux at it's base, but that is not really a Linux user that matters when talking about how big the Linux community is. I believe The Amazon Echo devices using Linux at it's core, so if we go by that then I have 8 or 9 Linux devices in my house. Linux yes, but not Linux desktop which is what developers care about. I have a feeling Affinity will never be coming to smart speakers, as great as it would be to verbally give instructions on how to design or setup forms. 

Some big "ifs" there when trying to break down numbers and say even 1% would buy a version of the Affinity apps. But let's say that they do sell 50,000 Linux versions a year for £2,500,000. That is not just pure profit of 2 and a half million. You have developers, support, advertising and everything else in the back end to promote and support Affinity on Linux. You start eating away at the 2.5 million pretty quickly when you are paying full time staff. Then the question is the growth, will there really be 50,000 new sales every year from Linux? It is a gamble and if it does not hit those numbers and is drastically lower you are now still paying to support Linux while making even less. I think the potential for return has to be much higher than 2.5 million. 

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8 hours ago, wonderings said:

Yes lots of devices are using Linux at it's base, but that is not really a Linux user that matters when talking about how big the Linux community is. I believe The Amazon Echo devices using Linux at it's core, so if we go by that then I have 8 or 9 Linux devices in my house. Linux yes, but not Linux desktop which is what developers care about. I have a feeling Affinity will never be coming to smart speakers, as great as it would be to verbally give instructions on how to design or setup forms. 

Some big "ifs" there when trying to break down numbers and say even 1% would buy a version of the Affinity apps. But let's say that they do sell 50,000 Linux versions a year for £2,500,000. That is not just pure profit of 2 and a half million. You have developers, support, advertising and everything else in the back end to promote and support Affinity on Linux. You start eating away at the 2.5 million pretty quickly when you are paying full time staff. Then the question is the growth, will there really be 50,000 new sales every year from Linux? It is a gamble and if it does not hit those numbers and is drastically lower you are now still paying to support Linux while making even less. I think the potential for return has to be much higher than 2.5 million. 

Agreed, it's very hard to pin down how many linux desktop users there are and it's hard to pin down how much of a profit Serif would get. Though the amount of support is similar to every other platform (though if anything you'd get more bug reports from linux users). Doesn't seem to be an issue for other software developers that have Linux versions so I don't know why it'd be a problem specifically for Serif. In the end it costs money to develop software for any platform so it's up to serif what platforms they develop for, it's not up to me and it's not my problem either way. I'd prefer they made their software platform agnostic but it's Serifs project so eh.

It's pretty bizarre that Linux is only really missing a good photo editor, most other kinds of software is pretty much accounted for at least for me, as my job ranges from VFX to 3D art and 2D art which is a wide and vague range that you could probably just call the entire creative industry. Film, Games, Music, Software Development.. but not Photography? Why is that I wonder (genuinely, im not trying to make a point I am really curious why this gap exists).

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On 6/20/2022 at 2:46 PM, MattyWS said:

Even if just 1% of that userbase wanted to use affinity photo (not including the rest of the suit) thats 50,000 sales a year

You have a mistake in your calculations again - wanting to use and buy is not the same. The license for Affinity applications is lifetime, so I can upgrade my desktop several times, but I still use the same license.

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54 minutes ago, Pšenda said:

You have a mistake in your calculations again - wanting to use and buy is not the same. The license for Affinity applications is lifetime, so I can upgrade my desktop several times, but I still use the same license.

I have two Macs. I have Affinity on both of them. That's six installs, but three purchases. I am looking at a new iMac. That would make it 9 installs, but still three purchases.

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16 hours ago, MattyWS said:

Agreed, it's very hard to pin down how many linux desktop users there are and it's hard to pin down how much of a profit Serif would get. Though the amount of support is similar to every other platform (though if anything you'd get more bug reports from linux users). Doesn't seem to be an issue for other software developers that have Linux versions so I don't know why it'd be a problem specifically for Serif. In the end it costs money to develop software for any platform so it's up to serif what platforms they develop for, it's not up to me and it's not my problem either way. I'd prefer they made their software platform agnostic but it's Serifs project so eh.

It's pretty bizarre that Linux is only really missing a good photo editor, most other kinds of software is pretty much accounted for at least for me, as my job ranges from VFX to 3D art and 2D art which is a wide and vague range that you could probably just call the entire creative industry. Film, Games, Music, Software Development.. but not Photography? Why is that I wonder (genuinely, im not trying to make a point I am really curious why this gap exists).

No 2 companies are alike, so saying others do it so why can't Serif is not all that valid. Who knows what they are like internally, expanding into new OS territory would mean new staff and no issues to confront for questionable gains.

I know Adobe looked into Linux some years ago, did some internal study and in the end opted out of developing for Linux. I personally think this speaks volumes (at least for the time, though I don't think there has been significant growth to change much now) as Adobe is a company with the money and the means to go into Linux. Serif is a mom and pop shop in comparison, both in staffing and revenue. If Adobe found it would not yield significant returns (my assumption) then I would say that probably goes for Serif as well, Serif who has less money to burn and less staff to take on the headaches that would come with a new OS.

 

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5 hours ago, Pšenda said:

You have a mistake in your calculations again - wanting to use and buy is not the same. The license for Affinity applications is lifetime, so I can upgrade my desktop several times, but I still use the same license.

True it's certainly an unknown variable. Though thats kinda true about every OS and it's really a fault of Serif if thats an issue for them. I don't want Serif to go all subscription model on us though so I guess worst case is Serif have paid upgrades to whole number versions (affinity photo 2 comes out and it's a £50 purchase to get the new version until Affinity photo 3, however you can still use the old versions since you paid for the lifetime license). Or do what most software do and limit the seats on the license so people with 3 macs will have to pay for extra seats if they want to use affinity photo across all their macs...

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19 hours ago, wonderings said:

No 2 companies are alike, so saying others do it so why can't Serif is not all that valid.

 

I disagree.. every company has to consider the pros and cons of platforms and how much money they need to spend on staffing. We've established Linux is used by a lot of the creative industry as well so I think it's fair to compare other companies that make creative softwares to this company that also makes creative softwares and just because Adobe does or doesn't do something doesn't mean anything more or less for Serif.

 

You say adobe don't develop for linux so why should serif? Well Adobe also specialize in 3D, game development, film production, music etc etc so if Serif are copying them then maybe they should waste money on making software like that too, right? Either they copy Adobe or they don't I don't think you can have it both ways. This may just be a difference in opinion but Serif have said they don't want to be compared to Adobe. I mean if we're going there then why even use Affinity products at all if Adobe exists? Serif *need* to do things differently to Adobe to stand out otherwise they may as well not exist.

The numbers of professionals who use Affinity Photo compared to Photoshop are probably on par with the numbers of people who use Windows or Linux. May as well expand into a new platform where Adobe doesn't exist. :P

Anyways this really comes down to opinions in the end. Other companies have thrived while making a Linux version of their software I don't think it will kill Serif, but ultimately it's their choice and heck, Serif already make choices that are extreme opposites of what I'd consider good (no good alpha/channel editing? No real support for channel packing?
Basic stuff people need that serif claim no one needs and so they don't want to include it). Nothing I or anyone can do other than voice their wants and needs and it's on the whim of serif to decide to listen or not.

I dont think I or anyone else needs to convince the forum users here if Linux is a good idea. You guys are entitled to like Windows or Mac and nothing else but it's still super weird how passionate some people are about hating Linux for no gain.

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On 6/20/2022 at 5:46 AM, MattyWS said:

Even if just 1% of that userbase wanted to use affinity photo (not including the rest of the suit) thats 50,000 sales a year,

 

20 minutes ago, MattyWS said:

True it's certainly an unknown variable. Though thats kinda true about every OS and it's really a fault of Serif if thats an issue for them. I don't want Serif to go all subscription model on us though so I guess worst case is Serif have paid upgrades to whole number versions (affinity photo 2 comes out and it's a £50 purchase to get the new version until Affinity photo 3, however you can still use the old versions since you paid for the lifetime license). Or do what most software do and limit the seats on the license so people with 3 macs will have to pay for extra seats if they want to use affinity photo across all their macs...

You have still not addressed the mistake you make in your calculations. Five million new Linux boxes are not all new users. Some of those are replacement machines. You would need to know how many, is if just one percent or is it half of the machines. Don't guess and make assumptions without using error bars. So it is 49,999 or 25,000. Perhaps only 2,500 new sales for the five million machines. 

Mac Pro (Late 2013) Mac OS 12.7.4 
Affinity Designer 2.4.0 | Affinity Photo 2.4.0 | Affinity Publisher 2.4.0 | Beta versions as they appear.

I have never mastered color management, period, so I cannot help with that.

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And the bill has another fundamental flaw. None of the assumed 50,000 Linux users will purchase new programmes every year. Serif, however, depends on getting new customers. And in the desktop segment, these are mainly Windows and Mac users. 

AMD Ryzen 7 5700X | INTEL Arc A770 LE 16 GB  | 32 GB DDR4 3200MHz | Windows 11 Pro 23H2 (22631.3296)
AMD A10-9600P | dGPU R7 M340 (2 GB)  | 8 GB DDR4 2133 MHz | Windows 10 Home 22H2 (1945.3803) 

Affinity Suite V 2.4 & Beta 2.(latest)
Better translations with: https://www.deepl.com/translator  
Interested in a robust (selfhosted) PDF Solution? Have a look at Stirling PDF

Life is too short to have meaningless discussions!

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16 minutes ago, MattyWS said:

Serif already make choices that are extreme opposites of what I'd consider good (no good alpha/channel editing? No real support for channel packing? Basic stuff people need that serif claim no one needs and so they don't want to include it).

And again there is the solution of gathering like minded individuals and make a far superior graphics suite for Linux. Yammering on about how a not very good piece of software should be ported to Linux seems like a bad idea. Make something better.

Mac Pro (Late 2013) Mac OS 12.7.4 
Affinity Designer 2.4.0 | Affinity Photo 2.4.0 | Affinity Publisher 2.4.0 | Beta versions as they appear.

I have never mastered color management, period, so I cannot help with that.

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