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Affinity products for Linux


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1 hour ago, GuernseyMan said:

This is the problem. The Windows version just runs, the Linux version means you have to jump through hoops to get it running. I use Linux but this just puts average users off and any kind of commercial deployment becomes a nightmare.

Basically the software house says, "It's not our fault, a group of unnacountable people have made changes to some distros of Linux and broken it!"

I'd be happy to tinker around with this but a lot of people wouldn't/couldn't.

I don't like proprietary software or OSs but at least they're generally focussed and someone is accountable when it goes wrong. That's what professionals are after.

1. Pixeluvo works 100% well on Xorg, period.

2. The issue is those behind the Wayland project who are pressing ahead with that project without addressing multiple hundreds of outstanding bugs with applications and desktop environments that have been reported to them and that otherwise work perfectly well on Xorg on Linux. The Pixeluvo matter is only 0.01% or so of Wayland's issues so it is very unfair to in any way blame the developer concerned.

3. Just go to Google, type in "Wayland bugs" and see the resulting sh!tshow of results. Neither Microsoft nor Apple would get away with foisting something as bug-ridden as Wayland on their own customers and Linux users deserve better. That is where both the fault and blame lies.

 

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I didn't blame the developers, their statement is correct. It's an issue with the nature of open source projects once they get to a certain size. There are always vying factions.

The fact that you agree that Microsoft or Apple would not get away with this behaviour speaks volumes.

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1 hour ago, GuernseyMan said:

I didn't blame the developers, their statement is correct. It's an issue with the nature of open source projects once they get to a certain size. There are always vying factions.

The fact that you agree that Microsoft or Apple would not get away with this behaviour speaks volumes.

Again, that is being more than a little unfair to Linux in general. The issue here is that this particular set of developers is taking a cavalier attitude and releasing and promoting their new display protocol prematurely while it is unrefined and still not fit for purpose.

Ideally, l would like to see the Linux Foundation taking a greater role in the development of desktop Linux so that situations like this one are less likely to occur in future.

In the meantime, anyone looking for alternatives to Serif Europe and Adobe products can use the Alternativeto website to find Linux-friendly options and examples are presented below:

https://alternativeto.net/software/adobe-photoshop/?platform=linux

https://alternativeto.net/software/affinity-photo/?platform=linux

https://alternativeto.net/software/affinity-designer/?platform=linux

https://alternativeto.net/software/affinity-publisher/?platform=linux

 

 

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I'm not being unfair to Linux. Linux is a piece of software, just a tool to run other software. Don't anthropomorphise it. 

I pointed out that any given community, when it gets to a certain size, creates factions within that community. The "Wayland Project" is just a faction within the Linux community that wants their view to take precedence. The "Anti Wayland" group resists that.

Youve said as much yourself with your comment about the Linux Foundation taking a more active role in guiding and focussing development.

It's human nature, and always will be. Certainly not an insult and definitely not unfair.

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On 5/24/2022 at 2:41 PM, LondonSquirrel said:

This in a nutshell is THE problem for Linux. If I want to install a graphics app I might have to Google for Wayland bugs. That is not my problem. If Wayland becomes the standard for Linux then this app will not work.

If you're worried about things not working in Wayland, then just use Xorg. It's still a few years until Wayland becomes the exclusive standard, and any app that ends up not working on it probably won't have been updated for years by that point anyway.

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4 hours ago, Renzatic said:

If you're worried about things not working in Wayland, then just use Xorg. It's still a few years until Wayland becomes the exclusive standard, and any app that ends up not working on it probably won't have been updated for years by that point anyway.

Given the statistics being reported from Phoronix from only a few months ago, it's going to be quite some time before Wayland becomes mainstream:

Less Than 10% Of Firefox Users On Linux Are Running Wayland

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Firefox-Wayland-X11-Stats

I also like this comment taken from one of the senior commentators over on the Phoronix forums:

"You failed to read the fine print at the bottom of all the wayland promises over the past 12 years:
"It will improve your performance. Next year. Or the year after that. Or maybe the year after that. If you have the right hardware. And the right desktop. On certain tasks with certain apps. Maybe. Depends on the alignment of the stars and the moon, and if Jupiter is in the 2nd house"."

In other news, Nomacs is a good, basic image editor for Linux:

https://nomacs.org/

For image editors on Linux with more capabilities, there are other softwares such as...

https://photoflare.io/

https://apps.kde.org/en-gb/showfoto/

https://kornelix.net/fotoxx/fotoxx.html

fotoxx-021_orig.jpg

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None of this has convinced me that my primary OS should be Linux and, anecdotally, that goes for most of my friends.

I have a distro running ATM, Mint as it happens, which I use to tinker around with for "fun".

However all my "real work" is still done on Windows. The software just works and I don't need to worry about what display protocol I'm using or needing to tweak Wine or any other esoteric settings. It also means that I can get support from the developers that I've paid good money to. Even if something works under Wine most Devs are of the opinion that you're on your own when something goes wrong.

People I know who run small businesses are generally not tech-minded. They're very good designers or architects or business consultants but just need an OS that works out of the box with the minimum of setup. They don't even want to decide on a distro as it's too much of a hard choice, especially as my Linux evangelist friends all recommend something different.

I also don't need to worry about a "particular set of developers" screwing things up for me.

Both OSs have their faults and their benefits. For work, at the moment, Windows is the lesser of two evils.😉

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Serif Affinity can choose to support or not to support the platform. Regardless of what is said here. Right now they have no plans to support it. I paid for all three on Windows. If was an option on Android or Linux I'd likely pay for it all again.

Wine communities may some day bring support to Linux. Affinity Photo is #2 on WineHQ as their most request app page.

You can swap back and forth on Wayland and X11 as a menu option once it's enabled from the login menu on most distros. 

Flatpaks and Snaps ship with their dependancies included. Distro doesn't really matter. Use Whatever tickles your fancy. I like Pop!_OS for desktops because it is the easiest out of the box setup and has fantastic Nvidia support out of the box.

Alternatives for Linux for Affinity Photo and Designer.

1) Inkscape - latest update version 1.2 has made it my primary vector program even on my windows desktop. Check and see if it meets your needs. In my opinion Inkscape is equal to Designer with some small pros and cons on both sets of software. Designer lacks trace, Inkscape has work arounds CYMK support.

2) Krita - was a fork of GIMP. Primarily painting app. With surprisingly decent photo editing tools likely left over from GIMP. Nondestructive and supports CYMK. Likely the best option with a good UI/UX experience. 

3) GIMP - has some great photo editing capabilities hampered with crap tier UI/UX experience. No nondestructive editing or CYMK support. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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While not ideal, these changes that temporarily break software or your workflow tend to happen everywhere, not only in Linux. Apple on MacOS broke a lot of perfectly good programs with their yet another shift to different architecture and not supporting OpenGL anymore.
And Microsoft slowly makes Windows a nightmare for any serious professional work. Sure, the programs are running on it fine but the OS is spying on you, forces you to update even if it breaks things and MS can change anything with the next coming update. You never know what is going to happen. This is in my opinion a horrible working environment. It is not your computer anymore. A lot of people deal with it only because of software compatibility, there is no alternative for certain software or games.

Linux is definitely not perfect (and I myself criticize a lot of things about it) but this issue with Wayland is hardly a typical "problem with Linux". This is a problem with almost every OS or technology at one point.

What surprises me a bit is the hostility from quite a few users against the Linux port. I get it, if you don't use Linux you don't want Serif "wasting" money on the development. But I still think Linux port would be beneficial even for you in the long run. Windows is probably on its way to become full-on Software-As-A-Service with all of the bad things that it brings. Lots of users are here because they got fed up with Adobe's SAAS model. When and if Windows becomes exactly that, what are you going to do? Wouldn't you be glad for an Affinity Linux port (already being developed and ready to go)?

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On 5/27/2022 at 8:10 AM, raptor said:

While not ideal, these changes that temporarily break software or your workflow tend to happen everywhere, not only in Linux. Apple on MacOS broke a lot of perfectly good programs with their yet another shift to different architecture and not supporting OpenGL anymore.
And Microsoft slowly makes Windows a nightmare for any serious professional work. Sure, the programs are running on it fine but the OS is spying on you, forces you to update even if it breaks things and MS can change anything with the next coming update. You never know what is going to happen. This is in my opinion a horrible working environment. It is not your computer anymore. A lot of people deal with it only because of software compatibility, there is no alternative for certain software or games.

Linux is definitely not perfect (and I myself criticize a lot of things about it) but this issue with Wayland is hardly a typical "problem with Linux". This is a problem with almost every OS or technology at one point.

What surprises me a bit is the hostility from quite a few users against the Linux port. I get it, if you don't use Linux you don't want Serif "wasting" money on the development. But I still think Linux port would be beneficial even for you in the long run. Windows is probably on its way to become full-on Software-As-A-Service with all of the bad things that it brings. Lots of users are here because they got fed up with Adobe's SAAS model. When and if Windows becomes exactly that, what are you going to do? Wouldn't you be glad for an Affinity Linux port (already being developed and ready to go)?

Exactly, this is the reason I left using Windows as my primary Operating System for personal, my business use, and at work with my workstation. With Windows you don't own it anymore. Each edition pushes required online accounts more and more. They are actively adding and testing new ad locations on the Operating System. It's likely going to go to a subscription service at some point. I got tired of having to run debloaters to remove 2gbs of telemetry and ads used by ram and a variable amount on CPU usage. I work in IT as a day job and the amount of hours we spend removing all the bloat from our Windows Workstations creating custom images is staggering. Some of those return even if removed when you update the OS. It is an undisputed fact that Windows has become malware. It's no longer an opinion, its fact.

If Serif someday decides to support Linux I'd be overjoyed, If they don't support it... oh well, that's their call. I don't believe it is going to happen anytime soon either. I do believe you have correctly identified why there is so much toxic behavior about Serif supporting other operating systems on these forums. Users on the supported systems will shout down any suggestion for another platform to support other operating systems because they believe it will "waste money and support on it" and perceive it as a threat to Serif's resources.

I'm honestly not too concerned about it anymore. Open Source software is maturing especially Blender, Inkscape 1.2, Krita, etc. is proof of that. Also, Windows software through wine is getting better every week and while I will not use them for a few reasons, the Linux community figured out how to use Photoshop & Illustrator Adobe CC products on Linux awhile ago, so it's already here.

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15 minutes ago, Kamei Kojirou said:

 the Linux community figured out how to use Photoshop & Illustrator Adobe CC products on Linux awhile ago, so it's already here.

You can use your Adobe CC subscription on Linux? I know it is not official from Adobe, does it break each time Adobe releases an update?

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1 hour ago, Kamei Kojirou said:

Exactly, this is the reason I left using Windows as my primary Operating System for personal, my business use, and at work with my workstation. With Windows you don't own it anymore. Each edition pushes required online accounts more and more. They are actively adding and testing new add locations on the Operating System. It's likely going to go to a subscription service at some point. I got tired of having to run debloaters to remove 2gbs of telemetry and ads used by ram and a variable amount on CPU usage. I work in IT as a day job and the amount of hours we spend removing all the bloat from our Windows Workstations creating custom images is staggering. Some of those return even if removed when you update the OS. It is an undisputed fact that Windows has become malware. It's no longer an opinion, its fact.

If Serif someday decides to support Linux I'd be overjoyed, If they don't support it... oh well, that's their call. I don't believe it is going to happen anytime soon either. I do believe you have correctly identified why there is so much toxic behavior about Serif supporting other operating systems on these forums. Users on the supported systems will shout down any suggestion for another platform to support other operating systems because they believe it will "waste money and support on it" and perceive it as a threat to Serif's resources.

I'm honestly not too concerned about it anymore. Open Source software is maturing especially Blender, Inkscape 1.2, Krita, etc. is proof of that. Also, Windows software through wine is getting better every week and while I will not use them for a few reasons, the Linux community figured out how to use Photoshop & Illustrator Adobe CC products on Linux awhile ago, so it's already here.

I'm not even sure that they are actively working on making their software compatible with Wine (although I would be only too happy to be corrected on that matter).

PhotoLine is up there with both Photoshop and Affinity Photo in terms of capability but it is much less well known. They don't make a specific Linux version but they do make sure it is compatible with Wine so that Linux users are not left out.

Tutorials are below:

http://www.russellcottrell.com/photo/PhotoLine/downloads/PhotoLineTutorial.pdf

http://www.russellcottrell.com/photo/PhotoLine/basic.htm

http://evrencomert.com/PhotoLine.htm

I must stress this again - PhotoLine on Wine for Linux users is not a competitor for any Serif Europe product precisely because Serif Europe does produce any software that is compatible with Linux or Wine.

PhotoLine_21.jpg

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1 hour ago, Kamei Kojirou said:

What surprises me a bit is the hostility from quite a few users against the Linux port. I get it, if you don't use Linux you don't want Serif "wasting" money on the development. But I still think Linux port would be beneficial even for you in the long run. Windows is probably on its way to become full-on Software-As-A-Service with all of the bad things that it brings. Lots of users are here because they got fed up with Adobe's SAAS model. When and if Windows becomes exactly that, what are you going to do? Wouldn't you be glad for an Affinity Linux port (already being developed and ready to go)?

I think a lot of users wouldn't care. If they did care then Adobe wouldn't be successful with CC subscriptions, Microsoft would still be selling Office in a box with disks and Autodesk couldn't command the eye-watering yearly extortion that they charge.

At the moment I'm about 50:50 Linux/Windows. In the future I will probably migrate to Linux more and more if I don't like where Windows heads but, at the moment, it's still a useful tool for me. If anyone (who isn't particularly tech savvy) asked me which operating system to use "right now" I would struggle to recommend Linux, unless they had someone on this forum to do tech support for them!

I've seen a lot of forum discussions "Windows vs Linux" and it always gets to the same point. The Windows guys are always idiots who "don't know any better" and the Linux users are portrayed as just nerds who spend all their time messing around with the OS and not actually doing anything. The truth is usually somewhere in the middle.

It is very disingenuous to suggest that someone has chosen an operating system because they are just stupid or don't know any better. Most people make a decision about what they want out of their computer based on their personal needs.

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Most people don't use windows because it's good, they use it because it's the default on most computers when they buy them and that is the only reason software developers develop for windows first. It has the marketshare because microsoft has the money to make it the default. Anything else is basically Apple.

This is *slowly* changing now as Razer, Dell, Minisforum and system76 sell computers with linux on, albeit very few (apart from system76 which is the apple of linux). I'm 100% on linux now as a 3D artist and you know what the #1 issue is? it's lack of a decent photo editor. It's not that linux is bad. it's not unfriendly to users, it's not a bad UX. Applications work fine on linux *when they're developed for linux* and thankfully a lot of the time even if it wasn't developed for linux it may still work (like world machine for example, no linux version yet runs perfectly on linux).

I think Valve are doing a great job also, they're going all in on gaming on linux and it's bringing more and more people to linux with the steamdeck. The thing linux needs the most is for people to just use it.

Anyways photopea is pretty decent on linux and it now has a flatpak (which is effectively a web app but still awesome)image.thumb.png.2366a05fdbc655e06a5e84698c85b01e.png

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18 hours ago, MattyWS said:

Most people don't use windows because it's good, they use it because it's the default on most computers when they buy them and that is the only reason software developers develop for windows first. It has the marketshare because microsoft has the money to make it the default. Anything else is basically Apple.

This is *slowly* changing now as Razer, Dell, Minisforum and system76 sell computers with linux on, albeit very few (apart from system76 which is the apple of linux). I'm 100% on linux now as a 3D artist and you know what the #1 issue is? it's lack of a decent photo editor. It's not that linux is bad. it's not unfriendly to users, it's not a bad UX. Applications work fine on linux *when they're developed for linux* and thankfully a lot of the time even if it wasn't developed for linux it may still work (like world machine for example, no linux version yet runs perfectly on linux).

I think Valve are doing a great job also, they're going all in on gaming on linux and it's bringing more and more people to linux with the steamdeck. The thing linux needs the most is for people to just use it.

Anyways photopea is pretty decent on linux and it now has a flatpak (which is effectively a web app but still awesome)image.thumb.png.2366a05fdbc655e06a5e84698c85b01e.png

Agreed on most counts. As far as Apple and System76 goes, You take the bad parts about Apple and throw them in the dumpster and you have System76(No hardware restrictions, you can change anything about it, install the software on anything you want, etc.) That being said I might be biased, I use Pop!_OS, love it, and recommend it to everyone.

Photopea is a great option for simple projects, It has performance issues the more complicated it gets, if you don't use a tablet with pressure support as part of your workflow,  and there is no perpetual license of the software without ads, without a subscription.

For my use case at least, I think Krita is the best photo editor on Linux. Which is hilarious because they don't claim to be one, but they are a fork of GIMP, so their is at least an older GIMP instance under the hood without the majority UI/UX issues of GIMP with better UI/UX, CYMK, non-destructive work, effect layers etc.  I think Krita is comparable to Affinity Photo, with a better painting experience, but the photo editing tools aren't well advertised and almost as good, the UI/UX is slightly worse because photo editing isn't the forefront, and their font tool has a weird popup interface to place text.

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Linux is stuck really.  People do not develop significant amounts of professional applications for the average desktop user and so less people are inclined to leap to Linux and so less people develop significant amounts of professional applications for the average desktop user and round and round it goes.  Unless big players get on board, it is doomed to stay this way as a niche OS until the second coming.

Base Unit: I5 (10th gen.), 6 cores, 12 threads, 24GB Ram, 256GB SSD (Boot), 1TB HDD, Intel 630 (Graphics), Colour Calibrated Monitor and Printer (Courtesy of X-Rite Hardware) - Running MacOS Monterey

Laptop: I5 (6th Gen), 8GB Ram, 128GB nvme, Intel 520 Graphics, Colour calibrated screen(Courtesy of X-Rite Hardware) - Running MacOS Monterey.

Server: i5 (4th Gen). 16GB Ram, nVidia GT 730 (Graphics), 500GB SSD (Boot), 2TB & 1TB HDD (General storage), Running MacOS Catalina
 

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5 minutes ago, cyberlizard said:

People do not develop significant amounts of professional applications for the average desktop user

They used to for the above-average user. SGI was good for high end graphics, and Sun was good for mid-end graphics, both at a price. Then along came Windows, and that part of the desktop UNIX market moved almost entirely. NT 3.51 and NT4 were not particularly good, they were every bit as unreliable and unstable as UNIX was reliable and stable. When Windows 2000 came out it was a game changer. There were a few hold outs for a time, but it became clear. Windows + Intel was cheaper than UNIX + non-Intel.

What a lot of Linux people do not understand is, it is not coming back. The desktop Linux market has hovered around 1% for 20 years. It has barely shifted in that time. There is nothing that Linux on the desktop offers that makes me say "I want that". I'm not a Windows user these days and there are things about it that make me say "I do not want that" such as telemetry and phoning home with who knows what data.

When I use UNIX on the desktop I know that it is as a niche thing. 

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On 5/29/2022 at 6:35 PM, Kamei Kojirou said:

Agreed on most counts. As far as Apple and System76 goes, You take the bad parts about Apple and throw them in the dumpster and you have System76(No hardware restrictions, you can change anything about it, install the software on anything you want, etc.) That being said I might be biased, I use Pop!_OS, love it, and recommend it to everyone.

Photopea is a great option for simple projects, It has performance issues the more complicated it gets, if you don't use a tablet with pressure support as part of your workflow,  and there is no perpetual license of the software without ads, without a subscription.

For my use case at least, I think Krita is the best photo editor on Linux. Which is hilarious because they don't claim to be one, but they are a fork of GIMP, so their is at least an older GIMP instance under the hood without the majority UI/UX issues of GIMP with better UI/UX, CYMK, non-destructive work, effect layers etc.  I think Krita is comparable to Affinity Photo, with a better painting experience, but the photo editing tools aren't well advertised and almost as good, the UI/UX is slightly worse because photo editing isn't the forefront, and their font tool has a weird popup interface to place text.

As someone once said about Krita over at Digital Photography Review, "It is photoeditor hidden in paint application..."

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4105149

In terms of equivalents to Affinity Publisher, there are some alternatives on Linux, the most widely known of which is Scribus:

https://www.scribus.net/

However, it is not the only one and PageStream is one alternative although it does have an old school interface:

https://pagestream.org/

Lucidpress is an online equivalent so it is available to Linux users:

https://www.lucidpress.com/pages/

The alternative that has impressed me the most though is VivaDesigner that has a Linux version:

https://www.viva.us/en/products/desktop-publishing/vivadesigner-desktop-version

viva-designer.png

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Since 15 years I try to switch my primary OS to Linux. Every time limited by a good Design Suite, GPU performance and Games. GPU Acceleration came with driver support. The breakthrough in games came with Steam using reliable GPU Acceleration. Now my design workflow is the last limiting part.

I know, that there are multiple solutions for different parts of my profession, but none of them is streamlined enough. If you would publish your Software on Linux, I could finally hop my complete workflow to Debian. I would buy your app again, even though I have already bought every application from Serif for my Windows, and MacOS Machines.

Maybe you could test if there would be a suitable marked for Serif, by developing just one app for Linux. Starting progressive with only the limited core functionality as a beta demo.

I am a freelance graphic designer from Germany, and studied visual communication.

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4 hours ago, dhdus said:

Since 15 years I try to switch my primary OS to Linux. Every time limited by a good Design Suite, GPU performance and Games. GPU Acceleration came with driver support. The breakthrough in games came with Steam using reliable GPU Acceleration. Now my design workflow is the last limiting part.

I know, that there are multiple solutions for different parts of my profession, but none of them is streamlined enough. If you would publish your Software on Linux, I could finally hop my complete workflow to Debian. I would buy your app again, even though I have already bought every application from Serif for my Windows, and MacOS Machines.

Maybe you could test if there would be a suitable marked for Serif, by developing just one app for Linux. Starting progressive with only the limited core functionality as a beta demo.

I am a freelance graphic designer from Germany, and studied visual communication.

There is a way round that and l hope that you have at least 16GB of RAM. What you could do is run the Affinity applications on macOS or Windows inside a virtual machine within Debian Linux.

I have enclosed examples below and there are plenty of tutorials on how to do this on Youtube. Good luck!

Links:

https://www.linuxuprising.com/2021/03/install-macos-big-sur-or-catalina-in.html

https://betterprogramming.pub/how-to-run-macos-inside-a-virtual-machine-on-linux-4d6ce7cd493e?gi=b749de128495

https://itsfoss.com/install-windows-10-virtualbox-linux/

 

 

 

 

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19 hours ago, dhdus said:

Maybe you could test if there would be a suitable marked for Serif, by developing just one app for Linux. Starting progressive with only the limited core functionality as a beta demo.

The customers are just not there. Not anywhere near enough. Companies that have tried have been bitten. Corel, WordPerfect, Borland, ...

Linux's place is on the server. On the desktop it is insignificant.

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