Affinity products for Linux

[msdobrescu]

4 hours ago, LondonSquirrel said:

Perhaps you have never done any cross platform programming? There are differences in all sorts of ways, such that what is allowed on one OS is not allowed on another. For example, allowed characters in file names. Another is file locking, which is completely different between Windows and UNIX (macOS being UNIX-like).  To handle these differences, you have to have a certain amount of per platform code.

Just "playing" here and there, I've found 10-15 years ago that were several stable libs/frameworks to support these differences. Out of those, I've used Qt and wxWidgets, but there was also GTK. So this is not an explanation.

[GuernseyMan]

You've made me break my "three posts to a thread" rule. It's more of a guideline really but helps to keep me sane. 

This thread has really gone off the rails. What started as a simple request has suddenly turned into some quite passive aggressive insults. 

Serif had been publishing software for over thirty years. I've bought all of their software for at least twenty years and always found them to be exceedingly professional and capable. 

The comment that they somehow don't have the bottle to "take a risk" is ridiculous. It's easy to be brave when you're betting with someone else's money, resources and reputation. None of use have any idea what analysis they've done on this and so we have no idea how much of a risk they would be taking. 

To say that they've somehow painted themselves into a corner by incompetently writing code that can't be ported is pure conjecture as well. We don't even know for sure what tools/engine they've used. This isn't Serif's first rodeo, they've been at this a long time. 

Any attempt to chide, or otherwise shame them into doing what you want won't work. What do you expect them to do at the next strategy meeting? Port the software to Linux because someone on the forums said they can't do it or that they don't have the bottle. 

Try to keep it civilised (I'm english, that is spelled correctly). 

[msdobrescu]

38 minutes ago, LondonSquirrel said:

How do you think that an app written to make use of Apple's M1 chipset will handle a Windows graphics card?

There is no Windows graphics card. The access to hardware is provided by the OS if there is a driver written for it by the hardware maker. That happens when you use an Nvida or an ATI card, for example. That should happen for most of the hardware. For this there are standards like OpenGL, OpenCL and so on. Same as for Internet browsers, they implement standards (HTML, ECMA etc.). Steam bridges the software things related to games Windows specific API calls and, sometimes, shortcuts taken by their makers.

[msdobrescu]

20 minutes ago, LondonSquirrel said:

These differences are only likely to grow larger as Apple improves (add features to) M1.

Then all said about why Affinity would not implement Linux apps due to the presumed volume of effort applies for M1 too.

That made me realize that to develop for Linux has a much larger technical support than for Windows or Mac if we look at the options and the fact that more people contribute to it than a big company does for its own products.

 

[MattyWS]

3 hours ago, Renzatic said:

And it still won't have freaking adjustment layers.

I think thats the worst part about it. ; ; That and no vector shape tools.

[B-Interactive]

5 hours ago, MattyWS said:

...though with Gimp 3.0 coming soon I might just give up on affinity, and I really don't want to use Photoshop. Krita, Gimp and Inkscape I guess are the big go-tos...

Starting up a virtual machine each time I wanted to run Affinity Photo had become too tedious for me, particularly given the poor performance of running it in a VM.  My Affinity Photo license goes largely unused now.

I've taken to just using Gimp instead.  It's rough around the edges and lacks a feature or two, but it's very capable.  The main hurdle has been adapting to its shortcuts and UI.

I raise my hand as someone who'd appreciate Affinity Photo releases under Linux, but I'm not holding my breath for it.  Serif will do what Serif will do.

As has been alluded of Linux users previously in the thread, I'm not opposed to paying for and using commercial, closed source software.  I've also paid for Davinci Resolve Studio, which I'm delighted to be able to use under Linux, and is a suitable equivalent for GPU/CPU intensive closed source graphics software running under Linux/Windows/OSX.  BlackMagic target and officially support CentOS (although perhaps under review given it's approaching EoL), so whilst you can run Davinci Resolve under other distros (and I do), they're only community supported.  And that's fine, because community support is something Linux has always done and does well.  In a nutshell, needing to support 200+ (or whatever) distros is not necessary.  Target one (eg: Ubuntu LTS or Fedora) and let the community worry about packaging for, and supporting other distros....or don't *shrug*

[Renzatic]

On 11/23/2021 at 5:53 PM, MattyWS said:

I think thats the worst part about it. ; ; That and no vector shape tools.

I can get by without the vectors, but adjustment layers are a make or break feature for me. They're so important, I don't consider a photo editing app a photo editing app unless they're in there.

The good news is that adjustment layers and layer effects are planned for 3.2, which, given the improvements made in the 3.0 release, would finally make GIMP a fairly decent Photoshop/Affinity alternative. The problem is, no one knows how long that'll take. Given their track records, we could probably expect it by 2031 or so.

[Snapseed]

On 11/23/2021 at 7:04 PM, Renzatic said:

And it still won't have freaking adjustment layers.

Yes, very important functions like non-destructive editing, inbuilt CMYK capability, etc are yet to appear and I suspect it will be a few more years yet before we see them in Gimp. The only suggestion I can offer is to keep on donating so that the good work can continue.

On 11/24/2021 at 12:29 AM, B-Interactive said:

Starting up a virtual machine each time I wanted to run Affinity Photo had become too tedious for me, particularly given the poor performance of running it in a VM.  My Affinity Photo license goes largely unused now.

I've taken to just using Gimp instead.  It's rough around the edges and lacks a feature or two, but it's very capable.  The main hurdle has been adapting to its shortcuts and UI.

I raise my hand as someone who'd appreciate Affinity Photo releases under Linux, but I'm not holding my breath for it.  Serif will do what Serif will do.

As has been alluded of Linux users previously in the thread, I'm not opposed to paying for and using commercial, closed source software.  I've also paid for Davinci Resolve Studio, which I'm delighted to be able to use under Linux, and is a suitable equivalent for GPU/CPU intensive closed source graphics software running under Linux/Windows/OSX.  BlackMagic target and officially support CentOS (although perhaps under review given it's approaching EoL), so whilst you can run Davinci Resolve under other distros (and I do), they're only community supported.  And that's fine, because community support is something Linux has always done and does well.  In a nutshell, needing to support 200+ (or whatever) distros is not necessary.  Target one (eg: Ubuntu LTS or Fedora) and let the community worry about packaging for, and supporting other distros....or don't *shrug*

If I may, please, I would like to make some constructive suggestions for you.

The first is to try developer Diolinux's PhotoGIMP patch for Gimp 2.10+ that make the UI more like Photoshop and that introduces the Photoshop shortcuts - https://github.com/Diolinux/PhotoGIMP

The second suggestion is to try the online Photopea image editor and it should look quite familiar - https://www.photopea.com/

The third and final suggestion is to try out PhotoLine and while there is no official Linux version, the developers in Germany make sure that their software works well with Wine so that Linux users are not left out - https://www.pl32.com/

There are some brief guides to PhotoLine below:

http://www.russellcottrell.com/photo/PhotoLine/basic.htm

http://www.russellcottrell.com/photo/PhotoLine/downloads/PhotoLineTutorial.pdf

http://evrencomert.com/PhotoLine.htm

While the interface might be a bit old school, it really is a competent and capable image editor (picture enclosed).

I must stress that all the above options are no commercial threat to Serif Europe whatsoever precisely because Serif Europe does not yet offer any Linux versions of their Affinity products.

 

[MattyWS]

Photopea works great for sure, I wish they'd make an actual desktop application for it but thats more a personal preference thing (I know you can save it as a web app though). Since my work is mostly adjustments to screenshots/renders I'm not so much doing photography (other than photogrammetry) or print work so gimp is getting there for me. 3.2 is probably the day I ditch everything else for Gimp if Affinity hasn't make things work on linux by then.

There is also Darktable (yet another example of an application that is cross platform without any problems, crazy huh) for people that mostly do photography and need something like Lighroom. I heard good things about RawTherapee too but I've not tried it myself.

http://rawtherapee.com/

https://www.darktable.org/
 

[IanSG]

2 hours ago, MattyWS said:

There is also Darktable (yet another example of an application that is cross platform without any problems, crazy huh)

"without any problems" is a bit disingenuous - it was 10 (ish) years before there was a decent Windows version.  Producing something that would run wasn't too much of a problem but supporting it was - sound familiar?

[msdobrescu]

I use RawTherapee and it's great. They are also very responsive as they've created camera profiles in a day for me.

[B-Interactive]

I use RawTherapee too and highly recommend it for photo processing.  In many ways, it's much more advanced than Lightroom or Photoshop Camera Raw, so may be a bit difficult for a new user to approach.

DisplayCAL is also a fantastic open-source screen calibration tool, I use with my X-Rite i1Display Pro.

[msdobrescu]

4 hours ago, B-Interactive said:

I use RawTherapee too and highly recommend it for photo processing.  In many ways, it's much more advanced than Lightroom or Photoshop Camera Raw, so may be a bit difficult for a new user to approach.

DisplayCAL is also a fantastic open-source screen calibration tool, I use with my X-Rite i1Display Pro.

Exactly my setup!

[universa]

The revolution of compatibility seems definitely at the cusp of affinity.
Must we wane and depress at the blackhole of colored ignorance.
Requirements must be reached from the origination.....

Those healing requirements are the only solution.

We have to meet those requirements somewhere,somehow, with passion , healing and determination.

Who's going to actually fight for it...

That's the real question.

*I'm in support of fully functional linux ports with magical updates*




 

[Ginhuardy]

Year after year I bought PhotoShop, Illustrator, InDesign. I loved Adobe products back then. Then Adobe came up with fancy "suites," cranked up their prices, and finally lost me when they went to subscription hell. I then started using Affinity products. I really like all three, Photo, Designer, Publisher. Impressive. Beautiful, smart interface. A joy to run. Intuitive workflow. I bought all three for Mac. Then all three for Windows. Then Photo and Designer for iPad. I'd DEFINITELY buy all three again if there were a LINUX VERSION. My Linux machines run flawlessly, better, less errors than Mac, way yonder better than our Windows machines. I would happily just run Linux if there was commercial software I could run on it. Like Affinity. Most people don't really care what OS they are on, just what software they can run on it---they don't run Linux because the software they want to BUY isn't isn't available for Linux, because companies like Affinity or Serif think Linux users are a bunch of beatniks, whoever they are. Were.

If Affinity never comes out with a Linux version, I will no doubt move on. Affinity products are great, but there are always alternatives.

Edited December 29, 2021 by Ginhuardy
duplicate

[fde101]

On 11/24/2021 at 2:22 PM, Snapseed said:

I must stress that all the above options are no commercial threat to Serif Europe whatsoever precisely because Serif Europe does not yet offer any Linux versions of their Affinity products.

If people are holding off on switching to Linux from other platforms because of some perceived lack of software options, then providing them with those options would make it easier for them to switch.  Once they are switched to Linux, they would have no reason to buy future versions of Serif products if those products are not available on their platform of choice.

[IanSG]

3 hours ago, LondonSquirrel said:

The Linux fanboys have been saying this for years: build it and they will come.

Ah yes - the Cargo Cult approach to marketing software.

[Pufty]

Happy new year. Has serif said anything at all about Linux recently?

[mwt]

The most frontend/backend developers use Linux for their work. In fact, many web frameworks and tools will not even run properly in Windows or OSX. This is especially true of Windows without WSL. In the development space, Linux is the dominant platform.

These same developers do edit photos and vectors for their projects. This is especially true for frontend developers who frequently need to create or modify assets. I suspect this would be the largest professional audience for Affinity's products on Linux. I do not think it is a small market -- especially for Affinity Designer.

For sure, it's not as large a market as Windows/Mac, but it's not being shared with Adobe. When, you take this penetration into account, I would not be surprised if Affinity sold more copies of Designer on Linux than on other platforms.

[wonderings]

On 12/29/2021 at 1:32 AM, Ginhuardy said:

Year after year I bought PhotoShop, Illustrator, InDesign. I loved Adobe products back then. Then Adobe came up with fancy "suites," cranked up their prices, and finally lost me when they went to subscription hell. I then started using Affinity products. I really like all three, Photo, Designer, Publisher. Impressive. Beautiful, smart interface. A joy to run. Intuitive workflow. I bought all three for Mac. Then all three for Windows. Then Photo and Designer for iPad. I'd DEFINITELY buy all three again if there were a LINUX VERSION. My Linux machines run flawlessly, better, less errors than Mac, way yonder better than our Windows machines. I would happily just run Linux if there was commercial software I could run on it. Like Affinity. Most people don't really care what OS they are on, just what software they can run on it---they don't run Linux because the software they want to BUY isn't isn't available for Linux, because companies like Affinity or Serif think Linux users are a bunch of beatniks, whoever they are. Were.

If Affinity never comes out with a Linux version, I will no doubt move on. Affinity products are great, but there are always alternatives.

If you were buying the suite year after year it is actually cheaper with the subscription. You also get the benefit of everyone else using the same version as you are as there is no reason to not update when a release comes out, at very least they have access to it if they are sticking with an older version for some reason. 

[wonderings]

On 12/29/2021 at 7:32 AM, fde101 said:

If people are holding off on switching to Linux from other platforms because of some perceived lack of software options, then providing them with those options would make it easier for them to switch.  Once they are switched to Linux, they would have no reason to buy future versions of Serif products if those products are not available on their platform of choice.

Pretty sure Serif does not care about trying to grow the Linux user base or to make things easier for people who want to switch to Linux. Their priority is their company and selling their software while at the same time supporting it, updating it and adding new features. I think they have done a pretty great job of this so far, especially with the updates that have come out with new features that I thought for sure would be V2 features you would need to pay for. Linux is a small percentage of the computer market and even smaller percentage of Linux users who would buy software like the Affinity trio. 

[IanSG]

47 minutes ago, wonderings said:

You also get the benefit of everyone else using the same version as you are as there is no reason to not update when a release comes out, at very least they have access to it if they are sticking with an older version for some reason. 

I've no experience of working with "creatives", but is that generaly true?  Back in the day I found customers resistant to carrying out upgrades, on the principal that "if it aint broke don't fix it".  

[PaulEC]

6 minutes ago, IanSG said:

I've no experience of working with "creatives", but is that generaly true?  Back in the day I found customers resistant to carrying out upgrades, on the principal that "if it aint broke don't fix it".  

I don't think you can generalise. Everybody has different priorities. There are some people who, on principle, always want the latest version of everything as soon as it is available. There are others (a bit more cautious perhaps) who would rather wait to make sure any updates or changes are not going to cause any problems. Then there are others who only update if they see any value in the update ("if it aint broke don't fix it"). 

[fde101]

12 hours ago, wonderings said:

Pretty sure Serif does not care about trying to grow the Linux user base or to make things easier for people who want to switch to Linux.

Ok, a bunch of you seem to be misreading my comment, so it looks like I need to clarify.

I agree that Serif has made it clear that they are not interested in the Linux market at this time.

I was pointing out the fallacy in the comment by @Snapseed when he claimed that his links to other software do not pose a threat to Serif.

If people are able to do their work on Linux because of discovering that other software, they may no longer have reason to maintain their other operating system(s), which would mean they would have no reason to upgrade the Affinity software in the future.

Thus the links do potentially mean reducing the user base of the Affinity apps, though granted probably not by a significant amount, as users seeing those links who would benefit from them to that extent were probably able to discover reasonable alternatives on their own (thanks to Google, etc.).

[B-Interactive]

2 hours ago, fde101 said:

If people are able to do their work on Linux because of discovering that other software, they may no longer have reason to maintain their other operating system(s), which would mean they would have no reason to upgrade the Affinity software in the future.

That pretty much sums up my scenario.

I'd been wanting to transition my workstation to Linux/BSD for a long time, but I have relied heavily on the Adobe CC, which had been a show-stopper as far as Linux support.  I got fed up with Adobe Premiere issues and despite still paying for a Creative Cloud subscription out of pocket, I taught myself Davinici Resolve and started to use that instead.  Even the free version was better than my paid-for Adobe Premiere.  Eventually, I purchased Affinity Photo and finally ditched my Adobe CC subscription.  Knowing Davinici Resolve had Linux support, I finally decided to dive into a Linux workstation.  Note, I chose to transition to Linux because the software I was using, was supported by Linux, which is essentially what others have been saying would be a driving factor.

After transitioning to Linux, I upgraded Davinci Resolve to the (paid for) Studio version, to fully take advantage of it.  

Naively, I thought professional video editing under Linux was my biggest hurdle.  I had expected I'd be able to run Affinity Photo under Linux, in some capacity.  It surprised me there really wasn't any working solution outside of a separate Windows (or Mac) PC, or a virtual machine.  Given Linux is to desktop operating systems, what Affinity is to creative software, a non-standard outlier, I had mistakenly assumed it would run in some capacity under Linux, as is not uncommon from similarly positioned software.

There are a host of reasons why I prefer to use Linux.  Switching lost me support for Affinity Photo, but I'm happy with my choice.