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Affinity products for Linux


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1 minute ago, Alex M said:

It's so easy to say something like this, especially if your company is backed and funded by so many large corporations.

Serif don't have sponsors like this: https://fund.blender.org

There was a moment in time when Blender didn’t have that kind of sponsors either, but they’ve proved it is possible to achieve that.

I don’t really understand what you meant by Serif not selling super expensive hardware and/or software. Blender is free, mate. Why did you jump to other companies when the comparison started with Blender?

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Multiple times these programs were used as an argument here in this thread. Resolve, Blender, Houdini, etc.

So if all of them are present on Linux, it is solely Serif's fault of not being here. That's the logic of some forum members here in this thread.

I've just explained (again) the reason why Serif is not on Linux. These are really different companies. And we should understand the reasons why Serif is not interested in Linux versions of their products.

If someone after 75 pages in this thread still doesn't get this. Well, it's really sad.

And yes, I know, that Blender was in a completely different state before. But Serif never started as a hobby/altruistic free software company.

Let's compare things that are actually can be compared.

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Just now, MattyWS said:

his one today when I asked if the Blender institute would ever consider working on other softwares to compliment Blender, specifically an image editing application. :)

I’ll definitely watch it later then, and thanks a lot for that! It was very clever move to attempt ;)

Having such a supportive company having interest in Affinity’s products could be the way :)

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Just now, Alex M said:

If someone after 75 pages in this thread still doesn't get this. Well, it's really sad.

If someone after 75 pages in this thread still doesn’t get that we’re trying to find a way to get Affinity products into Linux, well... THAT’S really sad.

If you’ve got nothing constructive to contribute with, then I would suggest that you leave this thread and go talk privately with LondonRascal.

Thank you! 😀

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Forum is already overwhelmed with various bugs being discovered and support requests being filled over and over. There are tons of issues with Affinity suite at the moment. Starting from core performance problems to lots of various bugs of different scale and importance. Lots of things remain unresolved for a long period of time. Lots of problems.

I think that should be enough to understand that there's no enough resources for properly maintain releases and bug fixes for three products on three platforms (macOS, iOS, Windows). Serif team is doing their best, I believe. I want to believe. I believe they just don't have time to even think about whole new platform to support.

And you're requesting Linux versions. That's just ridiculous.

Again. Why, in your opinion, Adobe haven't released whole set of their apps for Linux?

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11 minutes ago, Alex M said:

Forum is already overwhelmed with various bugs being discovered and support requests being filled over and over. There are tons of issues with Affinity suite at the moment. Starting from core performance problems to lots of various bugs of different scale and importance. Lots of things remain unresolved for a long period of time. Lots of problems.

I think that should be enough to understand that there's no enough resources for properly maintain releases and bug fixes for three products on three platforms (macOS, iOS, Windows). Serif team is doing their best, I believe. I want to believe. I believe they just don't have time to even think about whole new platform to support.

And you're requesting Linux versions. That's just ridiculous.

Again. Why, in your opinion, Adobe haven't released whole set of their apps for Linux?

Bye, Alex!

image.png.84ec053a8ad5ce2a984362d57c73459d.png

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It's going in circles with the 1%. That's understandable, but doesn't stop me from asking. I'll get back in a year to see if the No has shifted, because that answer was given way back in the past. Of course it's now buried in 75 pages of excuses why Not.

This is pretty much an outlet for anyone bored. I'll use the chance at work when bored, but I Have to unfollow the topic... It's spam mail at this point.

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4 hours ago, Alex M said:

Forum is already overwhelmed with various bugs being discovered and support requests being filled over and over. There are tons of issues with Affinity suite at the moment. Starting from core performance problems to lots of various bugs of different scale and importance. Lots of things remain unresolved for a long period of time. Lots of problems.

I think that should be enough to understand that there's no enough resources for properly maintain releases and bug fixes for three products on three platforms (macOS, iOS, Windows). Serif team is doing their best, I believe. I want to believe. I believe they just don't have time to even think about whole new platform to support.

And you're requesting Linux versions. That's just ridiculous.

Again. Why, in your opinion, Adobe haven't released whole set of their apps for Linux?

it's a good point that there are various bugs. I find it to be a bug that it outright doesn't run on the platform of choice. How is asking for Linux support any more or less important than all the other requests around the forum? As I mentioned to other people here, I don't need Mac support, I dont care for being able to edit raw, so I don't care about the bugs for that platform or feature yet I don't go to bug reports and request threads for those things and complain about how much I don't need it... So why people are coming in this thread complaining that they don't use linux is beyond me lol. I do find it peculiar that people are so against requests that have nothing to do with them and don't affect them at all.

Anyways, Linux is many peoples platform of choice and there's no decent image editing applications, so it's understandable that we'd want the newest, freshest image editing application to begin it's life with a cross platform foundation. Lets face it, Affinity Photo is far from finished or complete and the longer Serif wait, the more work it'll be to get it working on Linux. I'd argue it was a mistake on Serifs part not to develop Affinity to be cross platform from the very beginning. It's not like it's impossible... Plenty of other software out there that works on Mac, Windows and Linux alike. I'd like to hear what Serif have to say about this anyway, more than negative nelly hobbyists who are angry that Linux exists.

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It's not a bug it's by design. You have a perfect right to ask for Linux support, I would be happy for a Linux version as its the only software holding me back from a complete switch. I agree, it's many peoples platform of choice, including mine, but it is naive to think that they will allocate resources to porting their software based on some forum posts. They will be looking at a proper business analysis of the potential risks and rewards before making such a huge investment. 

There are three years of various people asking on this thread for a Linux version and I haven't seen a response from Serif (may have missed it). That is how important they think it is. Serif know their business better than I do and better than you do. This is my third and last post on the topic, life's too short to argue a lost cause. 

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27 minutes ago, GuernseyMan said:

It's not a bug it's by design. You have a perfect right to ask for Linux support, I would be happy for a Linux version as its the only software holding me back from a complete switch. I agree, it's many peoples platform of choice, including mine, but it is naive to think that they will allocate resources to porting their software based on some forum posts. They will be looking at a proper business analysis of the potential risks and rewards before making such a huge investment. 

There are three years of various people asking on this thread for a Linux version and I haven't seen a response from Serif (may have missed it). That is how important they think it is. Serif know their business better than I do and better than you do. This is my third and last post on the topic, life's too short to argue a lost cause. 

Yes I agree with you. :) I dont think we can sway Serif with this thread alone but if it raises more awareness then thats good. I know serif will make their choice based on their own research for sure. I know what I think the right choice is but given that I've spent years asking them for proper channel packing support I doubt they will get Affinity working on Linux in in the next decade. Maybe if Serif gain popularity they can start to allocate more funds to at *least* getting it to work through wine. Afterall, Wine is just a compatibility layer not an emulator, so it's perfectly possible that Affinity could run on Linux just as efficiently as Windows.

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6 hours ago, D’T4ils said:

The reason why people THINK he’s trolling is because HE IS trolling. As I mentioned, another thread with the same topic got closed because of his stupid attitude. He’s clearly not trying to do any kind of constructive criticism here, so I beg you to simply ignore him. He’s not trying to help anybody here, only his ego.

To you and everyone else, please report this overt troll every time there is yet another toxic and extremely repetitive trolling post. Only that way will the moderators know what is going on and only then can they act.

Don't respond, just report the post. I assume that the ultimate aim is to cause so much stirring that this thread is locked in the same way that another similar thread was locked down.   

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On 11/21/2021 at 11:01 AM, GuernseyMan said:

Been a user of Serif products for as long as I can remember and very rarely commented (in fact I had to make a new account just to post on these new forums! (and misspelt my name)

I've been watching this topic since the start and have a couple of things to say:

I'm in the same position as a few people on here. It would be nice for me to use Linux day-to-day but there are a few programs which I want to use and only run on Windows; the Affinity software amongst others. It would be great, for me personally, if Serif decided to make Linux versions or even just modify them so that Wine could handle them. I am, though, old-school and choose my O/S to run the software I need, not the other way around.

However; I understand how business models work. Serif will have paid for market research and/or conducted their own market research into this topic. No-one on this forum is privy to these results so we can't comment about how many users would, or would not, use Linux versions. The whole point of market research is that, unless there is an overwhelming need, the company will keep quiet on the results. Openly available "statistics" are generally presented by special interest groups and can should be taken with a pinch of salt when making business decisions.

It has to be remembered, as well, that Serif are not out to manipulate the market. Why would a company create software for an operating system in the hope that users will migrate to that OS and therefore create a market? Especially when that software is available on the two main desktop OSs. In order to encourage Linux uptake they would have to stop distributing Windows and Mac versions which is commercially unviable.

The actual demographic they are looking at are potential users of their software who exclusively use Linux. Anyone who uses multiple OSs will simply buy that software on another platform (it doesn't mean they would buy it twice so it's still only one sale).

Serif will make any decision based on a proper business practice. They are unlikely to take much notice of a few users on their forums.

Thank you for your well-reasoned post. I'm sure that the forum staff know that Linux users would like their rather good software to appear on the Linux platform in the future but l certainly can't see it happening in the short to medium term not least because they have had other very important issues to deal with, eg making their softwares work well on Apple M1 Macs and with Windows 11, for example.

In the meantime, we can head over to www.alternativeto.net and www.winehq.org to see what other potential options there are and, if our equipment is powerful enough, we can use virtual machine solutions such as Fmstrat/winapps, VMware or VirtualBox.

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The  worldwide market share of Linux on desktops/notebooks is about 2.33%.

I don't know of any company that is profit-oriented and develops software for a niche product, and if so, then only half-heartedly. 

And what good is it to have good software, but the periphery is not fully supported? Most drivers for Linux are somehow knitted with a hot needle. Not to mention, many UIs look like they came from the 1980s.

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8 hours ago, MattyWS said:

How is asking for Linux support any more or less important than all the other requests around the forum?

Currently, it's about 50 times less important than all other requests around the forum.
Accordingly to Statcounter: https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/desktop/worldwide
Man, I know it's painful to see you're being ignored for many years because of low market share.
But only your wish is not enough for things to happen. That's not how business works. Unfortunately.

8 hours ago, MattyWS said:

As I mentioned to other people here, I don't need Mac support, I dont care for being able to edit raw, so I don't care about the bugs for that platform or feature yet I don't go to bug reports and request threads for those things and complain about how much I don't need it... So why people are coming in this thread complaining that they don't use linux is beyond me lol.

People are coming in this thread trying to stop people like you from requesting potentially harmful and unnecessary things (for a majority of current Affinity users) from a relatively small company like Serif. As I already explained, starting Linux versions development will heavily affect current state of things and overall quality of software. As a result all of us including you will receive even more buggier and way more unstable products in future. I don't want this to happen. I want Affinity to improve. To improve you need to remain focused. If you'll try to reach any tiny percents of market share and to please everyone you'll end up at nowhere. Not understanding this is truly beyond me. Really.

Again, I'd like to ask you: why Adobe still hasn't released whole set of their apps on Linux? You haven't answered. Because you and me both know the answer and you don't like that answer. Neither do I. So why you still expecting Serif to invest their (pretty limited in comparison to Adobe) time and resources into Linux when you know the answer?

8 hours ago, MattyWS said:

Anyways, Linux is many peoples platform of choice

Unfortunately, your "many" is not enough valid and clear reason for things to be changed. Who are exactly these "many"? How many of those "many" are actually can be seen as potential customers for Serif? Business need numbers, business need proper market research. I'm saying "unfortunately", because as I already mentioned to you (I believe it was you), I also have some Linux machines at home and at work. And I'd be very happy to see Affinity suite coming to Linux. But at the same time I fully understand all the reasoning of why this still didn't happen for so many years and will probably not happen in the future.

9 hours ago, MattyWS said:

Plenty of other software out there that works on Mac, Windows and Linux alike.

Please, name a few commercial paid apps on Linux of the same caliber like Affinity suite from companies of the same caliber like Serif.
Let's compare apples to apples. Previously I already explained why we can't compare companies like Blackmagic, SideFX and Blender Foundation and their products to Serif. There's a clear difference between them.

9 hours ago, MattyWS said:

I'd like to hear what Serif have to say about this anyway

Fully agree with you on this. Maybe @Patrick Connor will shed the light on Serif position in regards of Linux support in the end of 2021. So all of us will know if something changed in their mind.

Let's remember we are all artists here and we are all here for the same reason – to create.

Let's not fight. Let's be friends. Let's help each other. Peace everyone!

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1 hour ago, Alex M said:

Currently, it's about 50 times less important than all other requests around the forum.

Sure. Happens that everybody makes software with bugs, but the issues Could be the same across platforms the same way it could be potentially harming to development... Windows is just everywhere. Your grandma won't be a designer, but she uses windows. Majority will go with the majority and it'll stay that way until something changes, but stagnation is the name of the game. Yes, totally why not follow Adobe's steps in it's dominant market and not release on Linux because they haven't. As scary it may be with how linux stifles development, it's also a curveball to following what adobe is doing. The blender point was weird, because you show a page of current donors with big names. Yeah, they joined Blender after blender made a name for themselves. People funded it's growth.

But the potentially harmful part is why I gotta say - Fine, I'll come back in a year. I'll try other programs, I'll find a way, but I'm hoping by that time I haven't found something that solves my issue, so I have a reason to come back. I'd still like to stick it to adobe and not be the little coward that crawled back to them

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11 minutes ago, Pufty said:

Sure. Happens that everybody makes software with bugs, but the issues Could be the same across platforms the same way it could be potentially harming to development

Agree. Some of the issues could be the same, but anyway, there will be much more issues in general with any new target platform being introduced, especially as complicated and as fragmented as Linux world. We can't deny that. If someone think that fixing issues is as simple as just changing a couple of lines and viola - it works everywhere now, then this person is wrong. There are lots of other factors and things to consider before making any changes or bringing new platform support into existing codebase. There are still things that are totally different on OS level in macOS, Windows and Linux. Graphic acceleration stack is unique to each platform. UI layer is unique. Many, many other things require very delicate and thorough work. It's not a couple of clicks to release universal binaries. We all should understand that.

21 minutes ago, Pufty said:

As scary it may be with how linux stifles development, it's also a curveball to following what adobe is doing.

Adobe is doing incredibly great and breaking revenue records year after year. https://news.adobe.com/news/news-details/2021/Adobe-Reports-Record-Revenue/default.aspx 

Do you think they can't port their software for Linux with all their billions and thousands of employees? They easily can do it. They can hire the best developers in the world to do that. But there's a reason of why they don't do that. And we all know that reason. Some of us just need to accept this truth.

26 minutes ago, Pufty said:

The blender point was weird, because you show a page of current donors with big names. Yeah, they joined Blender after blender made a name for themselves. People funded it's growth.

I fully agree with you, that all those big names joined the fund after team made a name for themselves. For many years it was noble, mostly voluntary work for the benefit of all mankind. Ton Roosendaal is a fenomenal man and I personally truly admire by him and his philosophy. It is very pleasant to see that whole his team finally starting to get rewards and well deserved recognition for years of their hard work. Basically, they all are getting paid now for previous years. And it is totally fair. I wish even more big companies will support their development fund in the future. But again, I believe we can't compare Serif and Blender Foundation. Totally different companies, totally different approach. Also, lets don't forget that Blender is freeware. And that's why I think my point about Blender wasn't weird but rather valid. I wanted to show the difference.

Of course, we can all argue and talk here. But, after all, only Serif can decide what's good for the company and worth doing and what's not.

That's why I kindly asked Patrick to comment on this. Will appreciate a lot if we could see someone from the team stopping by here for a moment.

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I'd like to then mention Adobe Substance Suite to compare to Serif, because before substance was sadly acquired by adobe they were just a regular company that started from nowhere, made a name for themselves and were cross platform including Linux (and still are, though Adobes acquisition makes me wonder how long that will last). If Allegorithmic were successful with a similar market and proprietary software that had perpetual licenses while being cross platform, why can't Serif do the same? 

I dunno, to say they can't do it just seems to suggest Serif is incompetent and I don't think they are, they can make software just fine and they could make it cross platform if they wanted to, so it's really up to them if they want to support Linux. I don't think they'd run themselves into the ground doing it because I'm sure they know how to run a business. If they choose not to because they don't want to "take a risk" that would be a shame, because I'm not going back to Windows and I'm certainly not going to Mac just for serif. I'd sooner choose a to support a company with the same values. 

Also, Photoshop kinda have become cross platform now, much like Photopea they can just run the software in browser. I think that's Adobes way of supporting all platforms. I don't particularly like that approach (something still bugs me about using photopea just because it's all in a browser) but it is what it is. I'm not saying Serif should make theirs for browser, I'm saying if Adobe is considering getting their product everywhere then adobe can't be used as an argument against going cross platform. 

I'd really love to support Serif in their journey to making Affinity the best, it can be, but I can't if they won't give basic support for something like channel packing let alone being available on platform I use. I don't see Linux support happening any time soon but I'd still like to voice my vote for it. :)

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18 hours ago, Squirrel Logic said:

Usually repeating the same thing over and over again is considered spamming.

Err - people have been repeating the same thing in this thread for 76 pages, surely, by your definition, that is spamming? 😁

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Affinity Publisher 2 : Affinity Photo 2 : Affinity Designer 2 : (latest release versions) on desktop and iPad

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5 hours ago, Alex M said:

Currently, it's about 50 times less important than all other requests around the forum.

No one is asking them to release a perfect product from day 1 but at least try and consider to maybe start working on it
slowly as a side project, then maybe release an alpha/beta release(they can always count on linux users to submit bug reports to make it better) and
eventually release a stable version(even if it takes a long time).
Valve did the same with steam a few years back. It was released as beta and it had bugs and also lacked some fetures.
After a long period of working on it while in beta, they released it as a stable version with feature parity to the windows client.
It took A LOT of time and effort, but they did it and it paid off.

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3 minutes ago, maor26 said:

No one is asking them to release a perfect product from day 1 but at least try and consider to maybe start working on it
slowly as a side project, then maybe release an alpha/beta release(they can always count on linux users to submit bug reports to make it better) and
eventually release a stable version(even if it takes a long time).
Valve did the same with steam a few years back. It was released as beta and it had bugs and also lacked some fetures.
After a long period of working on it while in beta, they released it as a stable version with feature parity to the windows client.
It took A LOT of time and effort, but they did it and it paid off.

I don't know if you've had a look around these forums, but, if you do, you'll see that there are bug reports and feature requests that have been around for years! That's for all three apps on three platforms. (Actually, of course, we're still waiting for Publisher on iPad.) As has been pointed out many times, Linux has a very small market share, and of those, the number of Linux users who will actually want to buy the Affinity apps is tiny (in comparison to Windows, Mac and iPad). Serif is quite a small company, so I (and I think quite a few other users) would quite like the existing bugs to be fixed, and the existing feature requests to be implemented, before Serif spread themselves even thinner, by starting on developing the Affinity apps for another OS. Commercially, I'm sure Serif will make vastly greater profits by working towards and selling version 2 of the apps to Windows, Mac and iPad users, than developing and selling first versions to Linux users. 

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14 minutes ago, PaulEC said:

so I (and I think quite a few other users) would quite like the existing bugs to be fixed, and the existing feature requests to be implemented,

Amen. I have run into a couple of bugs personally. They are more annoyances than show stoppers (for me). The list of features requested is long and doesn't seem to be getting shorter. Affinity has its hands full with this, so let's see what version 2 delivers.

Affinity is far better off developing for the 99% desktop operating systems than polishing the 1% (of whom what % will actually buy a licence).

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53 minutes ago, PaulEC said:

I don't know if you've had a look around these forums, but, if you do, you'll see that there are bug reports and feature requests that have been around for years! That's for all three apps on three platforms. (Actually, of course, we're still waiting for Publisher on iPad.) As has been pointed out many times, Linux has a very small market share, and of those, the number of Linux users who will actually want to buy the Affinity apps is tiny (in comparison to Windows, Mac and iPad). Serif is quite a small company, so I (and I think quite a few other users) would quite like the existing bugs to be fixed, and the existing feature requests to be implemented, before Serif spread themselves even thinner, by starting on developing the Affinity apps for another OS. Commercially, I'm sure Serif will make vastly greater profits by working towards and selling version 2 of the apps to Windows, Mac and iPad users, than developing and selling first versions to Linux users. 

It's a shame really because if Serif had done things right to begin with and made their foundation well, it wouldn't be a problem. If they have to maintain a completely separate codebase per OS they're doing something wrong. It's hard to believe anyone would start from scratch with something as major as Affinity Suite without this kind of stuff in mind. Granted, I'm not a programmer so I wouldn't know the intricate details of stuff like this compared to the devs at Serif, but for new applications it's not a problem in this day and age.

I mean people questioning why Adobe don't put photoshop on linux? because they iterated on an application they started in the very early 90's, their code for photoshop is at this point probably layers upon layers of bloat and legacy dependencies. Serif started Affinity what, like 5-6 years ago? They still have a chance to build their foundation for the skyscraper they're making, Adobe on the other hand is the tallest skyscraper around with old foundations that cant be changed so easily now. The difference between Serif and Adobe is that Serif have a fresh start, a chance to do it right. Adobe at this point is just living out its long life, no real innovations anymore, they don't need to.

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9 minutes ago, MattyWS said:

If they have to maintain a completely separate codebase per OS they're doing something wrong

Perhaps you have never done any cross platform programming? There are differences in all sorts of ways, such that what is allowed on one OS is not allowed on another. For example, allowed characters in file names. Another is file locking, which is completely different between Windows and UNIX (macOS being UNIX-like).  To handle these differences, you have to have a certain amount of per platform code.

12 minutes ago, MattyWS said:

Granted, I'm not a programmer so

Aha. So you don't know what is involved.

14 minutes ago, MattyWS said:

why Adobe don't put photoshop on linux?

Because the Linux desktop market is not worth worrying about. Linux displaced much of UNIX on the desktop quite a long time ago. And when UNIX on the desktop was a thing, Adobe had a version of Photoshop for UNIX. This was in the days when for high-end computing on the desktop you used a UNIX variant, such as SunOS or Irix. That market disappeared when Windows + Intel on the desktop at the high end became a much cheaper option than UNIX. It has not been replaced by Linux.

19 minutes ago, MattyWS said:

Adobe at this point is just living out its long life, no real innovations anymore

Ever growing list of features...

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4 hours ago, MattyWS said:

I'd like to then mention Adobe Substance Suite to compare to Serif, because before substance was sadly acquired by adobe they were just a regular company that started from nowhere, made a name for themselves and were cross platform including Linux (and still are, though Adobes acquisition makes me wonder how long that will last). If Allegorithmic were successful with a similar market and proprietary software that had perpetual licenses while being cross platform, why can't Serif do the same? 

I dunno, to say they can't do it just seems to suggest Serif is incompetent and I don't think they are, they can make software just fine and they could make it cross platform if they wanted to, so it's really up to them if they want to support Linux. I don't think they'd run themselves into the ground doing it because I'm sure they know how to run a business. If they choose not to because they don't want to "take a risk" that would be a shame, because I'm not going back to Windows and I'm certainly not going to Mac just for serif. I'd sooner choose a to support a company with the same values. 

Also, Photoshop kinda have become cross platform now, much like Photopea they can just run the software in browser. I think that's Adobes way of supporting all platforms. I don't particularly like that approach (something still bugs me about using photopea just because it's all in a browser) but it is what it is. I'm not saying Serif should make theirs for browser, I'm saying if Adobe is considering getting their product everywhere then adobe can't be used as an argument against going cross platform. 

I'd really love to support Serif in their journey to making Affinity the best, it can be, but I can't if they won't give basic support for something like channel packing let alone being available on platform I use. I don't see Linux support happening any time soon but I'd still like to voice my vote for it. :)

I'm a 100% Linux user these days and I can get by using Nomacs, Pixeluvo (a good Photoshop Elements equivalent), Canva and full Softmaker Office for the work/projects that I currently need to do. I would at some stage like to see the three rather good Affinity products come to Linux or at least have good Wine compatibility so they can be used on Linux that way (our friends over at PhotoLine already do this).

That said, I do appreciate Serif's practical reasons why they can't yet offer any Linux or Android versions. Firstly, they are 100x smaller than Adobe Corporation and so they just don't have the same large capital/resources to do this. Secondly, and I think they're right in doing this, they are not rashly over-expanding because that can end very badly as shown by the unfortunate examples of Peppertap and Wise Acre Frozen Treats (look them up).

In the meantime, we can politely request that they kindly consider doing a Linux version at some future stage and we can join WineHQ to vote up Affinity Photo (you actually have 3 personal votes to cast! https://appdb.winehq.org/votestats.php ).

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