Affinity products for Linux

[MattyWS]

I wouldn't say I'm emotional about it, but I'm certainly passionate about not having to use Windows.  I've dedicated a lot of my time to ensuring my own privacy, security and reasonable anonymity going forward in a way that doesn't inconvenience me, this was a choice I've made because I believe those three things should be the default and Microsoft doesn't. Apple is far better with this than MS but I chose Linux because I get on with it more than MacOS (though I have every other apple product, iphone, ipad, watch, tv etc). In the end it comes down to the fact that people should be able to choose the OS which is best for them and not be forced to use an OS they don't want to. Linux by default is secure and private.

The only reason I've not been inconvenienced by a lack of photoshop alternatives yet is because as a 3D artist I'll typically go to Substance Designer before I go to Phototoshop for texture packing, and I'll go to Substance Painter before photoshop for hand painted textures (both of which are on linux) and for most other things I can get away with using Krita for any hand painted 2D stuff. The inconvenience will come later when I need to use something like photoshop for touchups because I don't get on with Gimp (I've really tried).

When it comes down to it, Affinity photo and designer is a 'nice to have' for me more than a necessity but I'd still 1000% pay for it if it came to linux as I'm sure a lot of people would, since there just is no real competition for that kind of thing on Linux for professionals. There should be though.

[MattyWS]

15 minutes ago, LondonSquirrel said:

That's what some people said 20 years ago. Wordperfect, then a serious product, tried and failed. Corel tried and failed. Borland's Delphi as Kylix, tried and failed. Xara tried and failed. And so on...

Yet there are similar products that didn't fail, so what makes the softwares you mentioned failures the fault of Linux and not their own? 

 

17 minutes ago, LondonSquirrel said:

 It is just too small to be bothered with.

I'll see if I can get this out of the way because I've repeated this a lot now;

developers don't make software because users don't use the platform because developers don't make software because users don't use the platform because developers don't make software because users don't use the platform because developers don't make software because users don't use the platform because developers don't make software because users don't use the platform because developers don't make software because users don't use the platform because developers don't make software because users don't use the platform because developers don't make software because....

Here's my take; It's not too small to be bothered with, it's too small because no one bothered with it. Saying not many people use it is (again IMO) not a valid point for the reasons I've just mentioned here.

[Renzatic]

1 hour ago, LondonSquirrel said:

Name a few...

Substance Painter and Designer, Quixel Mixer and Bridge, all the games on Steam and GOG with a Linux rev. Steam itself, which is now banking on Linux. It goes on and on...

[Renzatic]

38 minutes ago, LondonSquirrel said:

Steam for Linux also relies on Wine. So it's not a 100% native Linux app - it depends on Windows APIs.

No, Steam for Linux is a native app, and hosts native applications. You can use Proton to install Windows apps through it.

Plus, Substance Painter and Designer are also available standalone.

[Squirrel Logic]

53 minutes ago, LondonSquirrel said:

can you name any Linux-only apps which are successful

That's not the point of this thread. People are not trying to make Affinity products Linux-only.

[MattyWS]

1 hour ago, LondonSquirrel said:

Substance Painter - on Steam.

Substance Designer - on Steam.

I don't know about Quixel Mixer and Bridge, I've never used them. I have no idea if they are successful on Linux. But looking on their web site, these appear to be free.

Steam for Linux also relies on Wine. So it's not a 100% native Linux app - it depends on Windows APIs.

well you're wrong about that you can just get the native linux versions of the applications from the substance website if you have a license like I do.

[MattyWS]

9 minutes ago, LondonSquirrel said:

Actually I am wrong. And I refer you back to an earlier comment I made about certain Linux commercial apps ONLY running on certain Linux distributions. You took issue with that. Substance Designer:

 

I did, that's because you can just convert the file to run on debian based OS's, which is what I did. So it was a non issue for me. But wait, you say, people don't want to faf around doing that(!) Well, it's a good thing there are universal packages that run on all distros. 

https://www.makeuseof.com/how-to-convert-between-linux-packages-using-alien/

Ultimately, developers seem to do just fine making applications for linux. How do Applications like Blender work on every distro if it's so super difficult as you say? Why would Serif be any less competent at this?

[Squirrel Logic]

2 hours ago, LondonSquirrel said:

It's 1% of the desktop. And of that 1% how many will actually buy our software? Is this worth doing?

1% of the total desktop users does not equate to 1% of Serif's target demographic. Serif makes design software, not a universal application like a web browser, so you should be taking into account only Serif's potential customers in this argument, and not the entirety of computer users. The number of creative professionals that use (or want to use) Linux is higher than the total population.

The thing is, we don't know exactly what Serif's target demo is. If Serif is only interested in taking current Adobe users (who are ipso facto only Windows and Mac users), then yes, making a Linux version makes no sense. But I would assume that Serif is interested in more than Adobe's current customers that need design software: students, UI designers, front-end developers, film editors, 3D animators, software developers, and marginalized creatives.

I don't know what their target demo is, but I what Serif to know that there are designers who work in software development that want Affinity applications available in Linux, even moreso in web design. I know people who work in animation who would give anything to use something besides The GIMP at work because their 3D pipeline is Linux (Pixar, WDAS).

As someone who has a graphic design degree, who is currently working on 3D assets, does web design and front-end development as part of their job, I'm in Linux for 70% of my day. I spend $323 USD annually on software that I run in Linux (no VM, no WINE). It fluctuates every year, but this year I donated €40 to open-source software that I use in Linux and Windows. Not technically commercial software, but it's software I use commercially, and I gave them my money. That sounds like a business to me. It shows that if it was not open source, I would have paid at least that much money for the software. So abso-freaking-lutely, successful commercial Linux software exists.

Again, I get it. Serif might not care about large film or animation studios. They may not care about software developers. But I think it is the right of customers, and potential customers, to let Serif know that there's a need for it. So instead of pretending to know what Serif's demo is, accept that there is demand for it. The argument that an electric car shouldn't be made because not enough electric cars have been made doesn't make sense to me.

[Pufty]

Some guy said about naming a few programs on Linux and I could add that Blender works as expected. Davinci Resolve works with one caveat being video codecs. Those are the ones I NEEDED to make my switch and they work. All that's left is Affinity and I've got a flexible creative space.

Basic things like VS Code, all the office programs and anything else I need had replacements that worked fine too. Is it common to think that many programs won't run on Linux?

[Pufty]

10 minutes ago, LondonSquirrel said:

Naming a few commercial programs - ones that people pay for, showing that Linux desktop users are prepared in reasonable numbers to put their hands in their pockets and buy software licences. 

VS Code is free. DaVinci Resolve in the basic (but very capable) version is free.

You see here is the rub: if Linux desktop users are not prepared, in large numbers relative to their puny desktop market share, to actually buy software licences there is no point in Affinity making versions available for Linux.

So why commercial paid? A lot of commercial products can be overpriced and both mentioned programs are really capable free programs. Blender is free, but I'm part of their development fund and Davinci Resolve is a future purchase. I like to pay for capable software, but it almost sounds like you'd like just about any level of software to be paid for. Reminds me of how apple released a very cheap monitor stand for your important monitor standing purposes.

 

Also, isn't wanting the software to be bought on Linux the whole point of this topic? I can still not pay and virtually/remotely use the software I already own for windows through Linux, but I like to own a snappy and respectable program. Still if nothing comes of it, I can go back to adobe and try that monthly overpay mess again.

[thedrumdoctor]

19 hours ago, MattyWS said:

I chose Linux because I get on with it more than MacOS (though I have every other apple product, iphone, ipad, watch, tv etc).

How do you cope with integrating iOS devices with Linux, or did you give up trying that one (like me)?

[MattyWS]

1 hour ago, thedrumdoctor said:

How do you cope with integrating iOS devices with Linux, or did you give up trying that one (like me)?

I guess I haven't really thought about it but the same way I integrate them with my work Windows desktop. I use dropbox*, I have shared folders on my windows and linux computers via my network. I use Barrier to be able to use my mouse/keyboard across my computers which happens to be cross platform for windows, linux and mac. 

When I worked at Rare and used Affinity photo to hand paint some ship livaries I actually used my ipad with windows and ipad having dropbox, so I would save the psd in there, open it on my ipad, paint the textures with my apple pencil then hit save and it was already on my pc by then. This works the same way on Linux too if you could use affinity photo. 

I dunno what LondonSquirrel is going on about, I've not had any issues using linux in this way compared to Windows, since dropbox works the same way. I also use Signal for personal messaging which is on every OS (as well as other various things I use tend to be cross platform services like discord, Slack, Blender, Firefox etc) so I dunno... I guess my answer is I haven't needed to do anything extra with Linux than I have with Windows in this case.

*substituted dropbox a few days ago for my own self hosted Nextcloud server which works in the same way and again, has an app across all devices. 

[MattyWS]

46 minutes ago, LondonSquirrel said:

 you will be beaten about the head by the Linux 'community' about how Apple is bad and you should use a Linux phone instead.

Well those are the only two options these days... Apple phones or every other phone which is based on the Linux kernal.

[Alfred]

20 minutes ago, MattyWS said:

*substituted dropbox a few days ago for my own self hosted Nextcloud server which works in the same way and again, has an app across all devices.

Thanks for the ‘heads up’. Nextcloud looks like a useful option.

[Pufty]

1 hour ago, LondonSquirrel said:

You would likely go down a rabbit hole full of half-baked shell scripts, python scripts using started-but-long-abandoned libraries that sort of implemented some of the features but broke immediately when you updated iOS. And the documentation would be a README.md file containing the words 'To do', some links to some other half-baked discontinued scripts which this one was based on, and a pithy (or is that pitiful) quote about the magnificence of open source software, and free means free as in speech not as in beer. All of which will get you no further to integrating your iOS device with Linux. But if you raise that crucial point, i.e. that you want something that works, you will be beaten about the head by the Linux 'community' about how Apple is bad and you should use a Linux phone instead.

If you value your time, and you should as your time on this planet is limited, you should assign a £ $ € value to each hour of your life. If you find that you will be spending hundreds of £ just to get your iPhone to sync with your Gnome desktop then you might honestly reflect that it would be better just to buy a cheap or secondhand macBook and get on with your life.

That is not to say that Linux and open source do not have value - they do. I use open source software every day. But that value is in the right places, not everywhere. It has been shown for more than 2 decades that the year of the Linux desktop is mañana. And mañana it will still be mañana.

This does sound like the Linux stereotypical environment and that no mortal should attempt this if they value their sanity, but here I am saying that it's been easy so far for me. Trust me, I'm as 'consumer' as they come.

[Renzatic]

16 hours ago, LondonSquirrel said:

Actually I am wrong. And I refer you back to an earlier comment I made about certain Linux commercial apps ONLY running on certain Linux distributions. You took issue with that. Substance Designer:

I have a license for Substance Painter and Designer as well, and I'm running it on Fedora 35 no problem. I could also install it natively through Steam if I want, since I crosslinked my accounts.

You're making a mountain out of a molehill here.

[Renzatic]

1 hour ago, MattyWS said:

Well those are the only two options these days... Apple phones or every other phone which is based on the Linux kernal.

NERD NITPICK TIME!

Apple's OSes are based off the Mach kernel, which is Unix based. It's Android and Chromebooks that use the Linux kernel.

[thedrumdoctor]

5 hours ago, LondonSquirrel said:

If you value your time, and you should as your time on this planet is limited, you should assign a £ $ € value to each hour of your life. If you find that you will be spending hundreds of £ just to get your iPhone to sync with your Gnome desktop then you might honestly reflect that it would be better just to buy a cheap or secondhand macBook and get on with your life.

Yep....that's about the top and bottom of it. No way could I get the iPhone to sync music or do anything else, other than to appear as another storage device. Total non-starter and put an end to my Linux experimentation (well, along with not being able to use the design tools I can use on Windows and Mac).

[thedrumdoctor]

4 hours ago, MattyWS said:

I guess my answer is I haven't needed to do anything extra with Linux than I have with Windows in this case.

Unfortunately, to do anything with Linux, I needed it run music recording software and virtual instruments, plus Affinity design tools and regularly organise and update the music library on my iPhone. I often upload recordings I've made to listen to in the car etc. The only good thing I've got from Linux is discovering the Insync cloud management app which destroys Microsoft's OneDrive app on so many levels.

But if I could get my everyday workflow stuff going on it, I'd have no qualms shifting over and paying for software.

[Renzatic]

3 hours ago, LondonSquirrel said:

Linux on the desktop in a nutshell. Penguins say 'this is a mountain', in reality it's a molehill.

Thems fite words.

[MattyWS]

Not everyone has to like an OS for it to be good though. It's clear LondonSquirrel has some bad memories about Linux. I have bad memories of Mac. Half the software I need doesn't run on Macs, that's not a good argument not support Macs so it shouldn't be a good argument against Linux either. Personal opinions aside Linux is very capable and there are people that want to use it but simply can't because the software we want doesn't exist on it yet. Thats the point.

Inb4 LondonSquirrel makes some tiring comment about 1% in a market waiting to happen or how much more he hates Linux from 10 years ago.

[GuernseyMan]

Been a user of Serif products for as long as I can remember and very rarely commented (in fact I had to make a new account just to post on these new forums! (and misspelt my name)

I've been watching this topic since the start and have a couple of things to say:

I'm in the same position as a few people on here. It would be nice for me to use Linux day-to-day but there are a few programs which I want to use and only run on Windows; the Affinity software amongst others. It would be great, for me personally, if Serif decided to make Linux versions or even just modify them so that Wine could handle them. I am, though, old-school and choose my O/S to run the software I need, not the other way around.

However; I understand how business models work. Serif will have paid for market research and/or conducted their own market research into this topic. No-one on this forum is privy to these results so we can't comment about how many users would, or would not, use Linux versions. The whole point of market research is that, unless there is an overwhelming need, the company will keep quiet on the results. Openly available "statistics" are generally presented by special interest groups and can should be taken with a pinch of salt when making business decisions.

It has to be remembered, as well, that Serif are not out to manipulate the market. Why would a company create software for an operating system in the hope that users will migrate to that OS and therefore create a market? Especially when that software is available on the two main desktop OSs. In order to encourage Linux uptake they would have to stop distributing Windows and Mac versions which is commercially unviable.

The actual demographic they are looking at are potential users of their software who exclusively use Linux. Anyone who uses multiple OSs will simply buy that software on another platform (it doesn't mean they would buy it twice so it's still only one sale).

Serif will make any decision based on a proper business practice. They are unlikely to take much notice of a few users on their forums.

[Komatös]

On 11/16/2021 at 2:06 PM, Alfred said:

Thanks for the ‘heads up’. Nextcloud looks like a useful option.

OffTopic

If you're tech-savvy, you can set up a small home server with its own cloud using a Raspberry Pi.

If you don't want to tinker yourself, devices from Synology, QNAP or ASUSTor are recommended.

The advantage is that you can access your data without being connected to the internet. 

But you also have to realise that a "home server" is not cheap, 

However, the devices are so versatile.  
 

[Pufty]

15 hours ago, LondonSquirrel said:

The year of the mythical 'year of the Linux desktop' in a nutshell. Linux is the cul de sac of desktop operating systems.

Have you tried it?

[Pufty]

48 minutes ago, LondonSquirrel said:

I've been using Linux for about 25 years. 

Now try windows. All flavours of driver reinstalls, forced updates, unremovable programs and unresponsive programs for days. Windows would be dead today if it wasn't for Task manager. Meanwhile on Linux it's been a damn pleasant surprise. So much "it's difficult" and "don't use it" kept me away for so long and that hurt my experience more by staying with windows than actually going through with the switch.

Gotta be some paleolithic linux version you're using if you're having issues today. I've tried a couple and it's just plug and play. Literally kept around some USB drives and got bunch of different distributions or flavors on them.