Affinity products for Linux

[R C-R]

15 minutes ago, msdobrescu said:

Well, 2-3 are more than enough, you included :).

Enough for what? It is quite clear that even 2 or 3 thousand people posting that they would like Linux versions is far short of enough to make Serif interested in diverting any of its resources from the ongoing development of its well established Affinity products for Windows, Macs, & iPads.

[msdobrescu]

Regarding Blender, it's just a hobby for me. I can say one thing. Blender and RawTherapee were pretty long time difficult to harness. Even now, when they improved a lot, I have a bag feeling about them as I avoid to use them. For RawTherapee, before the RAW process produced so weird colors, as I have the impression the treatment is the same today. It's like long time impression on my retina. I should not say that, but they've lost the start for me. Still, I bow to their developers.

The data I give is not a big deal, for me, but it is the fact I don't want so many resources to be spent on it, it look like the OS is oriented to that mainly, instead of my needs, and I have to pay too much for their needs instead of mine. I don't want to spend too much time in limiting that either, although I know how.

 

[msdobrescu]

7 minutes ago, R C-R said:

Enough for what? It is quite clear that even 2 or 3 thousand people posting that they would like Linux versions is far short of enough to make Serif interested in diverting any of its resources from the ongoing development of its well established Affinity products for Windows, Macs, & iPads.

Well, a few are enough to discuss as long as probably there are many not discussing at all, just having their monologues. But 2-3 people provide a good feed-back and useful arguments.

[msdobrescu]

17 minutes ago, toltec said:

I can understand that. You are a Linux user, you must be feeling a bit lonely and isolated 

With you, I don't feel lonely anymore!

[R C-R]

3 minutes ago, msdobrescu said:

But 2-3 people provide a good feed-back and useful arguments.

Useful arguments for what? There has not been a new argument in this topic since page two or so. It is all just recycling the same things over & over.

[NNois]

1 hour ago, R C-R said:

There is no "probably" about it. They have replied multiple times in this now 20 page long topic, making it very clear why they are not considering developing Linux versions of the Affinity apps anytime soon. Ignoring that & continuing to post the same kind of comments they have already rejected as reasons why they should reconsider is like continuing to beat on a dead horse, hoping that will somehow bring it back to life.

Rethinking own opinion anytime is part of the human nature, Fortunately! Others are just dumb

[InfoCentral]

The bottom line is that not one Linux user on this forum has given $1 to support Linux builds of Synfig Studio since my posting.

[msdobrescu]

@InfoCentral, sorry, I did not understand you try to fund that project, I've thought you have shown us that donating will encourage them to build a Linux version, and I went there and saw it is already under Linux, so the campaign ended. Still, I see no point in that because people, myself included, donate to projects they see fit, probably there is none here, so it's irrelevant. Is here anybody using it? I don't do 2D or 3D animation. I do, at most some 3D render, one image, not animation. How many would donate randomly, just because it's a free and open project for Linux, even they are linux users and promotors of open source?

.. and here we go again! :) Please, everybody come and confirm again and again the same things about Linux being pointless etc. etc..! :)

[InfoCentral]

Yep, the proof is in the pudding.

[toltec]

6 minutes ago, msdobrescu said:

everybody come and confirm again and again the same things about Linux being pointless etc. etc..!

Do you actually need us to confirm that for you again ? 

[msdobrescu]

Yes, please! :)

[InfoCentral]

2 minutes ago, msdobrescu said:

Yes, please!

 

[toltec]

I've just had a brainwave.

What would really improve Linux is if there was some really good graphics software available for it.

I wonder why nobody has thought of that before ?

[msdobrescu]

@toltec, you won the prize!

Actually, yes, why not having more professional software under Linux?

Ha! Ha! Can't help it!

[foxie]

Well, I have contacted codeweavers few months ago.

I'm just not really sure if it could work anyway.
 

Quote

Hello,

Thank you for your interest in our porting services.  We may be able to assist you with your needs, but we would need funding from the community, before we would be able to begin with any actual development work.  The beginning costs to start this project will be $3,000 (USD).  If this is something you would like to pursue, let me know.  

Sincerely,

 

[msdobrescu]

At least, they did not refuse it.

[SrPx]

On 8/21/2018 at 5:39 PM, msdobrescu said:

Please, everybody come and confirm again and again the same things about Linux being pointless etc. etc..!

The arguments for pushing Serif to do whatever (making a Linux version, a video editor, a sprite animator, a google drive killer, a coffee maker, order a pizza, or to allow every licensed user to land safely on the moon ) tends to be quite repetitive as well (that type of poster never recognizes it, btw).... We are mostly creative people... That should manifest itself, somehow.....   

[NNois]

Interesting blender Open Data, reflecting what i see at work. https://opendata.blender.org/

linux users    

12032

windows users

3180

macos

196

[SrPx]

Yep, but I wouldn't use it for any global conclusion....Blender story and the whole 3D world is very varied with a lot of specific situations.

Windows people I know, which is the majority of professionals I worked with (just because it happened so, that is no stat, btw)  asume 3DS Max as the thing for anything 3D. No matter if they're like me, 3D artists, or instead coders or whatever that in every conversation or meeting all what they get is it is mainly Max or Maya (in my region is very prominently Max, but that varies a lot in different parts of the world, industries, and areas of an industry. A lot of the companies need rendering for architecture, others are for products (ie, shoes!) there's a huge industry for games, and not just AAA games, there are lots of small studios making money.

So, mainly they only consider those options. Even if they are crazily expensive. I for one am a very long time user, and have never used Blender in other than Windows... and btw, works great, there.

Blender, at a professional level (well, I use it so for a very different collection of things, as the tool allows it. I practically use it for any purpose)  has been largely used, and this is increasing, I feel, for small video editing studios. Which often are tied for specific software to linux. Or, simply, due to the small business size, need to cut expenses everywhere, and this means as well OS licenses.

Main point: Blender is mainly respected by the Linux community, and often strongly criticized -IMO, wrongly- by Windows or Mac people. Mostly because they had a bad experience with the UI very long time ago, or, more often, heard somewhere else telling that this is so. Very very few saying that have given it a very serious chance, knowing that is a beast of its own in the UI, to actually do pro work with it during a month, and see how that pans out. Which would  be very well, if done well, with proper tutorials, books and other documentation. Heck, as anything should be learnt. There's tons of materials for this in Blender, is one of its strongest points, indeed. And the organic knowledge base built by the community, in the forums, QA stack site, and many other places, is almost unbeatable, very rare to see even in the commercial closed source apps world.  

I love that software, but I'm realistic: Maya is superior in animation, specially character animation, and Max is incredibly complete for a lot of industry standards in too many fields, counting on very high end features, with all very polished. It has had since always tons of bugs and issues, tho, I've suffered from that in a bunch of companies. That is... high end is high end... But Blender has never felt scared in aiming to high end stuff ! Which is what surprises me more. Thanks to this of targeting professionals is how I believe it has improved so much (among other reasons).

[NNois]

9 minutes ago, SrPx said:

Windows... and btw, works great, there.

 

Sorry, but my main concern working in Linux is about performances !

You can expect a CPU render 30% faster than on windows
Goes the same with cuda GPU 20 to 30% too

Launching Software is ...  very fast too

That's not a joke, even moving files is way faster, I work mainly with large files or files sequences, while windows and macos is doing whatever I know before starting moving or copying files Linux boxes are done !
 

 

[Medical Officer Bones]

41 minutes ago, SrPx said:

I love that software, but I'm realistic: Maya is superior in animation, specially character animation, and Max is incredibly complete for a lot of industry standards in too many fields, counting on very high end features, with all very polished. It has had since always tons of bugs and issues, tho, I've suffered from that in a bunch of companies. That is... high end is high end... But Blender has never felt scared in aiming to high end stuff ! Which is what surprises me more. Thanks to this of targeting professionals is how I believe it has improved so much (among other reasons).

And those professionals are doing some high level stuff with Blender. Blender is used more and more in production by AAA studios such as BarnstormVFX: Man in the High Castle, The Good Wife, Silicon Valley and many others.

And high-end character animation:

Tangent Animation's newest feature animation, "Next Gen", is the studio's second animated film. Produced and rendered 100% using Blender.

Interestingly enough Netflix paid 30 million to pick it up for Western audiences:
https://www.cartoonbrew.com/feature-film/why-did-netflix-pay-30-million-at-cannes-for-the-chinese-animated-film-next-gen-158348.html

 

[SrPx]

@NNois

Well, I dunno (have handled linux a lot, for another matters)  but in my case and workflows (my heaviest files tend to be more for 2D, printing) speed is not an issue. Maybe would be more noticeable in your activity than mine. I'm more limited by my crappy machine than any other thing, and even with this, and my long time built workflows, stuff goes pretty fast...

Also, performance (understood as work performance, not just machine's) seen as a whole, to me is not only raw performance. Is in a large grade, compatibility with existing commercial software.... (and I don't mean specifically in 3D, as I have a machine for everything. Again, surely not your case. But is the case of a lot of users...). That compensates for  me any slower rendering performance ( btw, getting a good enough Ryzen and/or GPU (depending on the size of your 3D scenery, to see if it fits in your GPU memory, I mean, to render with Cycles, for example), you can do renders extremely fast in Blender under Windows).

I mean... is like even in the apps, how they are built themselves, unrelated to the O. System factor. Yep, surely Blender is internally more efficient than 3DS Max (it is, I tested with some heavy wires, millions of polygons scenes, I mean), but Max can do more advanced stuff  that is needed in triple A games (you come from film industry, I believe, I do from games... both move a lot of money...) . But unless we are benchmarking for some reason, the  average artists find it more practical (at least the ones I know) to invest a bit in hardware, which will help overall, but have faster workflows thanks to greater compatibility and having software that meets professional grade requirements (there are MANY things that Blender can't do and Max can. And Max is an unavoidable requirement to work for many clients or as an employee in most companies in my area). This is not provided in every area in Linux currently available software, also it does happen in several of the areas. It just happen to be the case in the ones I need. Maybe in yours it is all perfectly fine under Linux system with all your needed applications, then, lucky you.... I don't deny that possibility. Indeed, I can think of  a bunch of fields and workflows that wouldn't need a Mac or Windows machine, at all. But again, extremely far from my case, and profiles like people doing  games, CAD, some other specific stuff that happens to not be supported enough in Linux, YET, which was what I was speaking about...  Performance, in my set of uses of 3D for gigs, etc...not an issue. And when at a company, with those amazing machines, I rarely notice any problem slowing me down. I'd much more likely be delayed by some excessive meeting/scrum-making habits, than other thing, lol....

So... why I prefer Blender to Max, if the latter is way more complete and quite more up to top commercial requirements ? Because, a) I don't do freelancing tasks of that type, those I only do at companies (I know how to, quite well). I simply avoid certain gigs (which ain't a problem. At all.)    b) because, obviously , the Max's subscription model (eek) and mostly its outstanding price (4x times the price of entire CC suite, I believe, lol...) .... c) Because... after all these years and having used a lot both, I kind of like more now Blender's, while was the opposite for some years. This is not only for my current increased expertise with it, but because Blender has evolved a lot,  at a faster pace than most graphic apps in Linux. Similar to what it is happening to Krita, IMO. (with a ton less resources and support than in Blender)

Another example, quite on-topic: Photoshop. Yep, its latest version eats a lot of hardware while even a CS5 was extremely faster while doing the same (but CC 2018 which I tested, really is a too important improvement over anything previous: Is it worth it. 2015/2017 over a CS6 ? ...nah, not at all, in my taste). Clip Studio Paint is really lighter (indeed, a champion in performance. I'm not alone in this). And paint shop Pro. Even Gimp is way lighter in the hardware it needs to operate without extreme lag. And yet... People prefer it to Gimp, by a mile !  (I like gimp, though). It is an extremely good example of how people can prefer to just invest in a better machine (PS and Windows OS can be tricked to get enough performance even with heavy files, but not everybody is capable to do that. I did with my trial test in this 2009 first gen i7 PC, very successfully) to overcome the hardware performance, as the gains in their workflow with other softwares and a bunch of professional requirements are sadly YET only met by the windows/mac environments.

I don't deny what you mention about performance. Linux has since always been a champion in handling memory and stability. I dunno if is as big as a 30%, I would check several places and different stats. The point is it does not constitute a problem, at all, for me, it works as fast as I need, sincerely (not making this up for the sake of the point). 

Edit: BTW, if you are so much disconnected from Windows world, I am not sure if you  would be aware of some facts....so, a fast note : I conducted some serious tests, very solid and revealing, comparing in same hardware the performance in memory, resources handling, general response between Vista, Windows 7, Windows 8/10. In the latter, the increase of performance was crazy (Vista being almost unbearable, with that hardware). That is, my current and loved OS, Win 7, and preferred to Win 10 by many, is WAY slower in performance than Windows 8.1  and Win 10. 

 

[SrPx]

@Medical Officer Bones

That door opening gag at the end was really  hilarious    ....or I am just dumb, I laugh easily....

I don't use Netflix, tho, will see some way to purchase the episodes, later on....

Also, I've known Blender open movies (I don't think this show has anything to do with him, tho), produced under the coordination of Ton himself (if I'm not wrong, in an study at Eindhoven (lovely city, I was there for some great days)), I believe, were truly amazing. I know since very long ago of what is Blender capable of. But there are other areas than film stuff. Blender, like most 3D general packages, is not only aiming to that field. 

And even in film field... well. Trust me, Maya character animation system, rigging and weighting,  is better. Mel script is more suited for team pipelines, automated stuff, etc. But Python (which I quite like) is what is used in Blender for similar things, and is a very capable language for that. Still, it does not mean it can't do the stuff needed for a movie or show. Of course it can, till certain limits not noticeable by the average person watching the show/movie, but yep for the artists in production, if they also know Maya or Max. And we can all do workarounds. Is always a balance each one does with speed, comfort, compatibility with other pipelines, etc. But Blender is pretty capable, yeah. I was only saying who wins technically in a comparison. And which are the reasons at certain levels one can only go with certain applications. Is not a theory, I was brave to ask for using Blender as integration package in job interviews. They usually laugh, then say seriously is Max/Maya or please find the way to the door, and thank you. Here, mostly Max. A different matter is that they let me model with whatever if provide a perfect import into the integration package ).  I myself will work around the issues, no matter what, to keep using Blender (and Wings). And the output will be professional, no matter what    But there are some big differences with the other two packages, yet.

[NNois]

12 hours ago, SrPx said:

That is, my current and loved OS, Win 7, and preferred to Win 10 by many, is WAY slower in performance than Windows 8.1  and Win 10. 

 

 

Well, I see your point but maybe it's not the same for others buying hardware and make money with it...
For example, Win10 has a Huge flaw, he reserve, no matter what 10% of the GPU memory for his display manager. You can say it's fine but it isn't because he blindly reserves the same on other GPU even if they display nothing! You can imaging the performance loss just for that. Many Win based studios have been forced to go back to win 7 !

https://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/windows/en-US/15b9654e-5da7-45b7-93de-e8b63faef064/windows-10-does-not-let-cuda-applications-to-use-all-vram-on-especially-secondary-graphics-cards?forum=win10itprohardware

That's just one example how Microsoft don't give any attention to professionals. And don't ask how many people stucked after a forced update even if you have a "pro" version... (me included and maybe you too / 50% chance !). I can't say the same for Ubuntu install, every of mine are there even with 10 y old installs upgrade after apgrades !

No, If pros could have their software on Linux they would use it, i'm sure
 

[dougdi]

I love Affinity's products and after using them for the past few years I have to say reading these Linux threads are still the most entertaining content online. Keep up the good work!