Affinity products for Linux

[SrPx]

30 minutes ago, NNois said:

Of course !

And the worst is you don't see it !

I work very long sessions, illustrating, doing heavy image editing, video editing, 3D, pixel art, web coding, web design (even if not exactly "a thing" anymore..), some copy writing, tons of works for print, working with very heavy files at large res and a crazy amount of layers. Sorry, but well handled (like anything), Windows is stable as a rock. Like anything, stuff needs to be well configured and well used, with any OS. In Linux, too (I've used it for years, at the job and at home). What I can't speak so much about, at least not for direct experience, is about Mac OS, as I have used it only at the job, but not lately, so dunno what is the status there. But is and has been about the most professional OS for graphics EVER, considered so by people which I totally trust in their sincerity and knowledge, and if wasn't enough, you get to know that from very high end pros all over the world, in practically every field.      . If anything, that you get more variety in software apps in 3D and some other areas in Windows, but not a big deal (except for the dramatic case of 3DS Max, as quite some jobs for that one). And well, Windows has the largest user base, by far.This rules everything...

If you would have said only Windows 10, my surprise would have been smaller (as there has been quite some promoted paranoia about this version).  But even so, I have 4 family members (none are teenagers or kids: They work with the machines) with a carefully well configured (by me) Windows 10, each. No complaints, no crashes, no anything other than having taught them a bit to get used to the new OS UI, and the new Office. But that's it. And in one case, to Libre Office, as is good enough for the needs of one of these persons.

I was just showing my surprise (and kind, respectful disagreement  ) 

 

[toltec]

8 hours ago, NNois said:

1. Nowadays lot of ubercool apps are in the linux train : Slack, Teamviewer, Spotify and a LOT of pro apps HOUDINI,NUKE,FUSION,MARI,MAYA,DAVINCI RESOLVE, and a bunch of cool open source apps KRITA painting Blender... !

2. A LOT of users just wait for a photoshop replacement to jump in,

1 But no Quark XPRESS, INDESIGN, PHOTOSHOP, ILLUSTRATOR, MS WORD, POWERPOINT, COREL DRAW, XARA, CYBERLINK, PREMIERE, SAGE, QUICKBOOKS. and thousands more.

2. And just how useful would Photo be on Linux ? even Photoshop for that matter.

Professional photography is about more than playing around with pictures for websites or facebook. You need things like Green Screen Software, drivers for photo printers (that stopped me) and so on.

For printing you need quality printing solutions, CMYK support, imposition software, PDF workflow stuff (e,g, ACROBAT, PITSTOP and ENFOCUS) plus lots of specialist stuff. None of this is available on Linux. For silk-screen printing there is very specialised separation software as CMYK doesn't work on a black or coloured T shirt.

Then there are the big digital colour printers and proofing printers. No Linux support. So you need to have a PC or Mac too, just to produce anything.

So what is left? Most people will only be able to use Photo for editing pictures for websites.  That would seriously restrict potential sales and someone has to pay Serif staff wages and the rent. You might as well just use GIMP.

The only solution for actually producing work professionally is a Mac or a PC.

[Mithferion]

1 hour ago, NNois said:

Of course !

And the worst is you don't see it !

Yeah, I don't know how I manage to put food in my table and pay my bills using Windows. What a time to be alive, right?

Best regards!

[R C-R]

1 hour ago, NNois said:

Of course !

And the worst is you don't see it !

You can't see what isn’t there.... unless you are delusional!

[toltec]

5 minutes ago, Mithferion said:

Yeah, I don't know how I manage to put food in my table and pay my bills using Windows.

Ah, but maybe with Linux OS you could be eating steak and caviare every night. 

Or do you already ? 

[Mithferion]

Just now, toltec said:

Ah, but maybe with Linux OS you could be eating steak and caviare every night. 

Or do you already ?

I'm not made for that kind of luxury, I guess.

Best regards!

[toltec]

Just now, Mithferion said:

I'm not made for that kind of luxury, I guess.

See ? you are obviously using the wrong OS .

[AustinRW]

mac os is linux, but other versions of linux are not really (in my opinion) meant for end users, linux is typically used for running/administrating servers and networks, as well as modifying its on linux version to be its on custom operating system for phones, and other products

[R C-R]

3 minutes ago, AustinRW said:

mac os is linux...

The Mac OS is absolutely, definitely not a version of Linux. It is a "Unix-like" OS derived from BSD 4.4 & NeXTSTEP. It is based on the Mach kernel & both POSIX compliant (as is Darwin, depending on the configuration) & POSIX certified but it differs significantly from standard UNIX systems, for example by abstracting I/O operations out of the kernel into I/O Kit, & further abstracted into various "core" architectures like Core Image & Core Services.

[R C-R]

1 hour ago, toltec said:

Ah, but maybe with Linux OS you could be eating steak and caviare every night. 

I guess only Linux users can get the enriched "e" version of this delicacy? 

[toltec]

14 minutes ago, R C-R said:

I guess only Linux users can get the enriched "e" version of this delicacy? 

If you are posh enough to eat it, I think you should be posh enough to spell it the posh way.

Just sayin' 

Anyway, that's how it's written on the tins in my cupboard.

[Alfred]

11 minutes ago, R C-R said:

I guess only Linux users can get the enriched "e" version of this delicacy? 

Would that be vitamin E enriched?

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/caviare

[NNois]

What a surprise !

I'm simply talking about how Windows and MacOs blow your computer power, space, and bandwidth by default. How, little by little you computer mute to a Notification Machine, an Ad machine, an update Machine, a tracked Machine.

Yes you can work with it. But doing that you're giving away a good part of your computing power to manage things you don't need, created only for the purpose of our consumer society.

Of course you can configure all that deeply, like you, like me, but we are not the majority.

I'm amazed how can you guys could declare a flame war for that, nobody should be against linux !
Think about it twice that's the only free alternative out there and maybe the futur of computing. I assume you're all aware of the lack of energy our civilisation will face in the next decade and how our civilisation could collapse...

To get back on the Affinity project, maybe i'm wrong but I think about them like people just like that, fighting big corporation, trying to reinvent the wheel... with or without a linux version

Cheers

[toltec]

26 minutes ago, NNois said:

Of course you can configure all that deeply, like you, like me, but we are not the majority.

Well, how is that bad compared to downloading Linux, installing Linux (if it works) configuring Linux etc ?

I recently installed Linux Mint for a friend. I spent hours only to find it didn't work with NVIDIA cards. I eventually got it to work with Ubuntu. Took me almost a whole day of my time and all it's really any use for is browsing and writing the odd letter. (It's intended use, to be fair).

Bought a new PC with Windows 10 (crap, I admit) but I plugged it in, it updated itself, i installed Affinity and er, it worked, perfectly. My time about one hour.

Been working perfectly ever since and I have been able to produce stuff productively. No configuring required 

Small to medium businesses don't want to build computers and install quirky operating systems, just because they are free. Or employ a computer expert to do that and maintain them. They want multiple turnkey systems that they can lease, then throw away after three years. Most of them will come with maintenance agreements, or they will buy one.

Linux is a good OS but unusable for most businesses.

[R C-R]

6 hours ago, NNois said:

I'm simply talking about how Windows and MacOs blow your computer power, space, and bandwidth by default. How, little by little you computer mute to a Notification Machine, an Ad machine, an update Machine, a tracked Machine.

And yet somehow, my ~6 year old low end iMac with just 8GB of RAM manages to run the Affinity apps quickly & efficiently, & still has the power & space to run other apps concurrently without slowing down. I get notifications only for things I have opted into getting (because they are important to me) & see only a few ads on a few websites. Updates mostly download automatically in the background using spare CPU cycles & bandwidth. I am 100% fine with the info Apple collects from me, including sending crash reports to Apple & to third party developers like Affinity, but I had to agree to that to begin with & I can opt out of that at any time.

None of this required 'deep configuration' -- anyone who can read can do what I did in a matter of minutes.

[NNois]

On 6/7/2018 at 2:52 PM, NNois said:

Slack, Teamviewer, Spotify and a LOT of pro apps HOUDINI,NUKE,FUSION,MARI,MAYA,DAVINCI RESOLVE, and a bunch of cool open source apps KRITA painting Blender... !

I've forgot the Alegorithmic Tools, Substance Painter, Substance Designer.

That alone says how much Linux is an important player in Computer Graphics

I can listen you guys with your criticism about how you can't bear Linux but facts are better than presumption.

[toltec]

26 minutes ago, NNois said:

but facts are better than presumption.

I presume the fact that you (and other Linux users) keep posting on this forum proves just how much Linux lacks professional quality software like Affinity 

[SrPx]

3 hours ago, NNois said:

I've forgot the Alegorithmic Tools, Substance Painter, Substance Designer.

That alone says how much Linux is an important player in Computer Graphics

I can listen you guys with your criticism about how you can't bear Linux but facts are better than presumption.

What presumption ? (btw, I know since quite time about the Alegorithmic Linux versions, is not yesterday's news) At least -as far as I know- two of the people that are replying here (I'm one of them) know Linux very well, and not just a pair of fav distros, neither just in desktop mode, and Linux graphic software, better than most linux users complaining here (I remember one criticizing badly Inkscape and Gimp, I could realize he did know very little about the two, and that has been far from an isolated case, sadly.) . And some of us,  been so for decades, and working at companies, making a living using Linux, even in ways that some people wouldn't ever imagine. No presumptions...

[Medical Officer Bones]

I always found it interesting that no professional-level layer-based image editor/compositor is available natively on Linux systems in spite of Linux playing a very important role in Visual Effects, 3D and (high level) film compositing and editing. Software such as Nuke, Houdini, Maya, etc. are all there, (support for 3d and high level compositing and VFX work is arguably much better on Linux than on the Mac platform) and I heard and read about how large film studios maintain a couple of Windows or Mac systems with the sole purpose of running Photoshop to prepare assets for import.

But perhaps the complexity of the work at high-end studios and the relatively tiny designer user base explain why so far nothing (outside Gimp and Krita) has appeared for the platform: on the one hand the complexity of production-level VFX and compositing work automatically means that a layer-based approach is just not feasible (requiring node-based compositing and VFX), and the lack of powerful animation controls only exacerbates this, while on the other hand the lack of professional designers working on Linux means most users never leave the confinements of relatively simple image editing work (for which Gimp more than suffices and is steadily improving). 

Gimp is becoming good enough now with the addition of 16bpc and 32bpc (and the upcoming adjustment layers), and digital painting is already catered for with Krita. And if you are working as a 3d artist or compositor your primary tools and workflows wouldn't care much for a high-flying image editor, because excellent production proven tools already are available. As a 3d artist I probably couldn't care less about the presence of Affinity Photo on the Linux platform (or even on Windows and Mac) when I have access to Substance Painter and Designer for my texture work. I'd be heavily invested in those tools, and for the odd simple image editing I'd probably just get something free like Krita or even Gimp.

Hence, no real user base exists on Linux that would invest money in a commercial layer-based image editor. Corel tried, and failed. It turned out to be not feasible.

So as a commercial company like Serif and Adobe, I'd think twice before committing a lot of human resources and money down a potential rabbit hole with little or no return on investment. And honestly, I just don't see those few independent professional linux-based artists leave their tools for a less powerful tool (for example, David Revoy works in Krita, and whether you like it or not, Krita surpasses both Photoshop and Affinity Photo in regards to digital painting). And besides, many of these artists and designers tend to be advocates for open software, and probably wouldn't give commercial software a second glance, if even a first glance. It's not part of their style or life/work philosophy.

On top of all this another concern for commercial vendors of software: when I install Linux Mint on people's machines (like my wife's :-) ), Gimp and LibreOffice are pre-installed, ready to play. Installing other graphics software is just three clicks away. I don't see the average user clamouring for Affinity Photo when they can immediately open Gimp to do some simple image editing, or install Microsoft Office. Unless you'd be a professional 3d artist/film compositor/VFX artst and have need of Nuke or Maya or Houdini or etc.  - but those professionals on Linux work in very different industries, and certainly not in the print industry. They couldn't care less for Affinity Designer, for example. Designer wouldn't stand a chance anyway on Linux, not with competing products such as Gravit Designer (and which is available for free too) carving out a niche on the Linux platform.

Mac is a completely different ball game, despite the smaller user base: most professional designers and print involved people work on Macs, and the user base for a product like Affinity is just... there. It exists. In particular with disgruntled Adobe users grasping at the opportunity to leave the Adobe ecosystem, even if the tools aren't that strong as the Adobe ones. From the moment when I first saw Serif's marketing, and how it was aimed at the professional groups of Mac users in the existing graphic designers and photographers communities, I knew Affinity would sell well and become a success. It would be impossible to generate that vibe amongst Linux users. It's a very different user base, and the two are living in worlds far apart.

I would like to see products like Affinity Photo and Designer on the Linux platform, but when I think about the target users, I just don't feel there's much chance of landing many new users to sell the products to. Photo might make a few hundred sales, but Designer? No chance. All in all, not a lot of money-making potential.

[myclay]

Sure, Affinity Designer could be having a hard time in sales since imo it lacks in some regards like the fact that there is no tracing feature included while the competition has such a feature and is already available on Linux.

Who knows if Affinity Publisher also falls in the the same category as Affinity Designer?
DTP solutions like Viva Designer and Scribus already are available on Linux.
Serif would have to add features to give a reason to customers to jump from those two solutions to Affinity Publisher.

Contrary to Apples Market-store, on Linux Serif wouldn´t have to give away 30% of each sale which means profit can be quicker archived on Linux even with "fewer" customers.

[IanSG]

7 minutes ago, myclay said:

means profit can be quicker archived on Linux

If ever a business model was doomed to fail! 

[R C-R]

51 minutes ago, myclay said:

Contrary to Apples Market-store, on Linux Serif wouldn´t have to give away 30% of each sale which means profit can be quicker archived on Linux even with "fewer" customers.

That assumes there actually would be enough sales to generate any profit at all, after subtracting not just the development & support costs but also the marketing costs that are included in the 30% that Apple gets. BTW, Microsoft takes a similar cut on sales through its Windows 10 app store, & both stores provide not just marketing but also sales related services. This includes supporting the different languages in the stores in different countries.

TL;DR: There is a lot more to actually making a profit than you have considered.

[NNois]

Ok, but everyone is talking about how serif could make money out of that. Is profits/sales the only matter in your life ?

I personally think the open source community is invaluable, every developer can't deny that and should support that. Starting from there own product ? And seriously, an app developed these last years should have a serious common code base shared between the 3 OS's

[SrPx]

3 hours ago, myclay said:

Sure, Affinity Designer could be having a hard time in sales since imo it lacks in some regards like the fact that there is no tracing feature included while the competition has such a feature and is already available on Linux.

Sources for that statement? My impression and data is quite the opposite, in Windows/Mac: AD seems to be doing quite fine, probably better than Photo, and both of them quite well.... And I guess even more after winning MS Windows developer award. Not having the automatic tracing feature.... that is definitely not a pro feature, that is a convenient "shortcut feature" , and never one to describe (at least if we are speaking "seriously", lol) a tool as professional enough or not.

Edit: Maybe you meant that AD would have a hard time making sells in Linux (in that sentence I was not sure about the exact meaning) not about if it is doing well right now in Windows and Mac.  And yes, I believe it'd make little profit compared to Windows and Mac versions, but definitely not due to having or not a tracing feature.

Scribus is not a graphic design product, is a publishing solution, more in the lines of InDesign , Quark etc. And you compared it to AD somehow, and how AD would have to add features to compete. No way! Even if it weren't apple to oranges, AD and Scribus, and I will dare to say, even legacy products from Serif, all have quite an advantage, no matter what: UI. Affinity's UI (much more the case, so) is much easier to learn for the average users, the mass of them (I had no issue to learn deeply Blender, Gimp and Inkscape, and work professionally with them (have you done so?). But I'm not the masses). It is much closer to the UI standards in graphics software, and I mean in the professional solutions that most companies really use, in great numbers at least.

Yes. Affinity -and for this regard, any product line from any company- would have an issue with sells in Linux (despite that many have had the nice detail of adding a linux port), at least to make enough sells, as the bulk of sells justifying the port effort, I mean. And it is not related to AD/AP's quality, but the actual raw number of sells, of actual licenses purchases compared to those happening in Windows and Mac. Scribus is an already mature product (just read about its UI "feel" among pros... and I say this while I've been defending it, you only need to do some searches around here and in google in general), been around quite some time, like Gimp (BTW, a bunch of years since it saw it latest update, till recent release), so, yep, Apub will be released with that disadvantage of having just born, once released. But that happens to every new product newly launched compared to products that have had much more time to polish (whether if they cared to get that done or not). I'll go for Apub without any doubt, tho.

 

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Ok, but everyone is talking about how serif could make money out of that. Is profits/sales the only matter in your life ?

This is not about "us". It is  what matters for a company that has to pay many salaries (for the families depending on that, I can tell you, it "kind of" matters...), expensive renting, hardware, company taxes, licenses, expensive PR, etc, etc, etc. Besides, surely decide stuff according to investors takes at it, depending on how the funding is structured. And for us, what is important about it, is that some of the older (not necessarily old, but that have been around working with graphic software many, many years) around here, and quite some time as pros in the Win/Mac platform, have seen a bunch of professional graphic software creation and entire brands fall because of bad decisions leading to a profit fail/bankruptcy. Often leading to be acquired to finally let the product die, as is how competition often behaves, or the brand/company itself just disappears once it cannot pay the bills and salaries anymore. "Passion" about a platform or operating system has nothing to do with a company's survival. Sells do, in the other side. And if a brand/product company sinks, it's gone, for ever (Goodbye Fireworks, XSI, Freehand, Mirai, Deep Paint 3D... we really miss you...). There have been quite some sad examples. And that damages the professional in the short, medium and long term.

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Starting from there own product ? 

Absolutely anyone with a brain and enough knowledge and training (no need of money or having a company behind) could fork gimp (BTW, Cinepaint was an extremely interesting Gimp fork, with even CMYK support ! ), Inkscape or Scribus. You don't need a company like Serif for that. Just talent coding.

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every developer can't deny that an should support that

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an app developed these last years should have a serious common code base shared between the 3 OS's

Open source is not about forcing anyone else to do something, it is about freedom. A lot of people, specially from the open source community, would have very serious issues with the "should" instances.... No one is forced to that. Not even morally/ethically. That's a cute invention, but there is no obligation about how each company makes its own development. Each has freedom to build its business models as they see fit.

[R C-R]

28 minutes ago, NNois said:

Ok, but everyone is talking about how serif could make money out of that. Is profits/sales the only matter in your life ?

No, profit is not the only thing that matters but companies that can't make a profit do not stay in business for long, & that matters quite a lot, both to the companies & to their customers.