VectorCat Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 When I am done with the text tool, there seems no easy way to turn it off, or allow me to choose the next tool I want, often the black arrow. You'd think pressing esc would do it, but it takes no fewer than half a dozen pressings of esc to get free of that text tool. You think you've turned it off, then you hit the V key and whammo! the text tool is back in action, ready to insert characters! We need to be able to end it when we're done with text. Is there a way, once and for all, to dismiss the text tool when we're done, and get on with it? thank you! vcat ronnyb 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leafdancing Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Just clicking on the black arrow, the Move Tool, should work. Alternatively, hitting cmd d will deselect the text, and then tap the v key will select the black arrow ( the Move Tool ) you mention. There is a handy guide to all the present shortcuts in the free Affinity Designer ezine, which can be found second from the top in the news and information section of the forum. Hope this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectorCat Posted February 9, 2015 Author Share Posted February 9, 2015 yeah that could be helpful.. I was hoping for more a keyboard solution..maybe CMD-D is it. it's weird to say, "I have to go all the way to the tool palette" as though I were walking to Calcutta in bare feet, but it's true; when you're in the Zone, going to the tool palette un-necessarily seems like a tortuous chore.. ;-) edit: just tried cmd-d. works beautifully! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Harris Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 You'd think pressing esc would do it, but it takes no fewer than half a dozen pressings of esc to get free of that text tool. Really? For me it takes at most two. The first one removes the text selection, if there was one, leaving you with the blinking caret. Hit escape when you have a blinking caret puts you in the Move tool. You think you've turned it off, then you hit the V key and whammo! the text tool is back in action, ready to insert characters! If the Move tool is already active, V switches back to a previous tool. I can't make it select the Text tool, though. Can you describe more exactly what you are typing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectorCat Posted April 9, 2015 Author Share Posted April 9, 2015 Having trouble with this again...repeated pressingts of CMD-D, escape, etc... then when I press the V key, I again get the text box tool. anyone else? v1.2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronnyb Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 This one is killing me too... It's a real PITA, specially coming from 20+ years of Adobe muscle memory. I too feel like the text tool is a clingy ex who won't let go... And the same thing happens when I'm changing type size, or working in the Character panel in general. It just feels wonky to me... the logic just eludes me :unsure: Having trouble with this again...repeated pressingts of CMD-D, escape, etc... then when I press the V key, I again get the text box tool. anyone else? v1.2 VectorCat 1 Quote 2021 16” Macbook Pro w/ M1 Max 10c cpu /24c gpu, 32 GB RAM, 1TB SSD, Sonoma 14.4.1 2018 11" iPad Pro w/ A12X cpu/gpu, 256 GB, iPadOS 17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
00Ghz Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 It is definitely broken. Sometimes when using the text or text frame and and in full screen pressing esc also drops AD out of full screen. There has to be a better way then using esc... Quote UI Designer, CG Artist Macbook Pro 15" 2014 2.5 Ghz, 750M https://www.behance.net/VladMafteiuScai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Harris Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 Having trouble with this again...repeated pressingts of CMD-D, escape, etc... I'm sorry you are having trouble. Can you explain exactly what you are doing, starting from a new document? For example: New document. Art Text tool. Drag rectangle. Type text. Press Escape - Now in Move tool. Is that not what happens for you? Note: CMD-D does not affect which tool is active. It deselects the text, so that you can use V as a short-cut. Otherwise, with the text still selected, it inserts the letter into the text Art Text tool. Drag rectangle. Type text. Press CMD-D - Now nothing is selected. Press V - Now in Move tool. then when I press the V key, I again get the text box tool. This is by design because V acts as a toggle between the Move tool and the most recently used tool. This behaviour isn't specific to text. If you are in the Move tool, what do you want to happen when you press V? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Achim63 Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 This toggle behaviour of "v" is very useful! Don't change it, please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectorCat Posted April 10, 2015 Author Share Posted April 10, 2015 I'm sorry you are having trouble. Can you explain exactly what you are doing, starting from a new document? For example: New document. Art Text tool. Drag rectangle. Type text. Press Escape - Now in Move tool. Is that not what happens for you? Note: CMD-D does not affect which tool is active. It deselects the text, so that you can use V as a short-cut. Otherwise, with the text still selected, it inserts the letter into the text Art Text tool. Drag rectangle. Type text. Press CMD-D - Now nothing is selected. Press V - Now in Move tool. This is by design because V acts as a toggle between the Move tool and the most recently used tool. This behaviour isn't specific to text. If you are in the Move tool, what do you want to happen when you press V? It's basically when one has concluded using the Text tool and needs to use another tool, such as Arrow ( V ) the Text Tool continues to insinuate itself into the action. Of course, one can always make a trip to the tool palette, but...why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectorCat Posted April 10, 2015 Author Share Posted April 10, 2015 This one is killing me too... It's a real PITA, specially coming from 20+ years of Adobe muscle memory. I too feel like the text tool is a clingy ex who won't let go... And the same thing happens when I'm changing type size, or working in the Character panel in general. It just feels wonky to me... the logic just eludes me :unsure: Word. 20+ years of muscle memory is a huge asset, and it really works well for the text tool, because you're already there, typing, or finishing up typing. The "V" Key is 1/2 cm from your left index finger's "Home" position (over "F") and who wants to give up that muscle memory. I don't want to take anyone else's functionality away, but I don't believe this would: key commands to invoke tools are part of the AD feature set and in terms of graphics applications, are as old as the hill as the go-to method of changing tools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Harris Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 I think I've figured out what is happening: You are in the Move tool. You want to stay in the Move tool. You press V. It takes you out of the Move tool! This happens because V toggles between the Move tool and whichever other tool you used most recently. With most tools it's not a problem because you can just press V again to get back to the Move tool. With the Text tool it is a problem, because the V inserts a V into the text, so you get stuck in the Text tool. You have to press Escape to get out of it. I think we should exclude the Text tools from the V toggle. Basically, since V can't switch from the Text tool to the Move tool, it shouldn't switch from the Move tool to the Text tool either. It's not working as a toggle in this case. We'll have a look at doing that next week. It would mean that typing Escape and then V to switch between Text and Move tools will stop working, but that's probably a less important scenario. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectorCat Posted April 11, 2015 Author Share Posted April 11, 2015 Well...no. I am "in" the Text tool. I get to the point where I'm done with the Text tool. IOW, I no longer need it, and want a different tool. I press "V" for the "Move" tool. Once. And what actually happens is that the Text tool remains active. What ought happen is that the Move tool becomes active. Think about it as if you were using actual physical tools. You're done with the hammer. You put it down. You pick up the screwdriver, yet you see it's still the hammer that's in your hand. ronnyb 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronnyb Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 The problem is this: AD not only deselects the currently active text object, but ALSO switches to the Move tool, when one presses the Esc key while editing a Text Object. Then the unsuspecting user hits the V key to get to the Move tool, which is already selected, so AD reverts back to the Text tool, and the user is inside the Text Tool Hall of Mirrors again... Esc should only deselect the currently selected text object, and LEAVE the Text Tool as the currently selected tool. Why does AD assume the user wants to set down the Text tool? Perhaps the users is doing multiple edits in multiple text objects... My 2 cents... Quote 2021 16” Macbook Pro w/ M1 Max 10c cpu /24c gpu, 32 GB RAM, 1TB SSD, Sonoma 14.4.1 2018 11" iPad Pro w/ A12X cpu/gpu, 256 GB, iPadOS 17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronnyb Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 The problem is this: AD not only deselects the currently active text object, but ALSO switches to the Move tool, when one presses the Esc key while editing a Text Object. Then the unsuspecting user hits the V key to get to the Move tool, which is already selected, so AD reverts back to the Text tool, and the user is inside the Text Tool Hall of Mirrors again... Esc should only deselect the currently selected text object, and LEAVE the Text Tool as the currently selected tool. Why does AD assume the user wants to set down the Text tool? Perhaps the users is doing multiple edits in multiple text objects... My 2 cents... I think I've figured out what is happening: You are in the Move tool. You want to stay in the Move tool. You press V. It takes you out of the Move tool! This happens because V toggles between the Move tool and whichever other tool you used most recently. With most tools it's not a problem because you can just press V again to get back to the Move tool. With the Text tool it is a problem, because the V inserts a V into the text, so you get stuck in the Text tool. You have to press Escape to get out of it. I think we should exclude the Text tools from the V toggle. Basically, since V can't switch from the Text tool to the Move tool, it shouldn't switch from the Move tool to the Text tool either. It's not working as a toggle in this case. We'll have a look at doing that next week. It would mean that typing Escape and then V to switch between Text and Move tools will stop working, but that's probably a less important scenario. Quote 2021 16” Macbook Pro w/ M1 Max 10c cpu /24c gpu, 32 GB RAM, 1TB SSD, Sonoma 14.4.1 2018 11" iPad Pro w/ A12X cpu/gpu, 256 GB, iPadOS 17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Harris Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 The problem is this: AD not only deselects the currently active text object, but ALSO switches to the Move tool, when one presses the Esc key while editing a Text Object. Then the unsuspecting user hits the V key to get to the Move tool, which is already selected, so AD reverts back to the Text tool, and the user is inside the Text Tool Hall of Mirrors again... So the problem is that we're switching away the from the Text tool too soon: almost the opposite of the intial report. But that does sound plausible. I've changed it so that it clears the text highlight if there is one, and if not de-selects the text object. You'll then need to press V to get out of the Text tool entirely, as with other tools. I know we put in the switching tools behaviour for a reason, but it feels OK with this new behaviour, so we'll see what feedback we get from the next beta. ronnyb 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshTeriyaki Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 You've kind of contradicted yourself Ronnie, Illustrator drops the text tool once you're done. The switching is still the main issue I think, removing that will solve a lot of issues. I think keeping the text tool active until you dismiss it would be almost as much a muscle memory freak out for many as the current situation. But let's see what it's like in the beta :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectorCat Posted April 22, 2015 Author Share Posted April 22, 2015 "too soon?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10on12 Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 There's been a slight improvement to the text tool - it now lets you move the text box when hovered over the top of the frame - without changing tool. I've been bangin on about hat since last year - so thanks! The BIG problem seems to be ADs notion that when you are working with text you are doing this exclusively to everything else. This is not the case. You are working on text - moving it into position, moving other objects around it, then changing the text again, tweaking other objects in relation to it and so on and so on… At the minute I have to switch tool each time. GIVE US A TOGGLE KEY FOE MOVE TOOL. Freehand had this worked out perfectly. Also - the text box still doesn't expand automatically as more text is created. Also - FREEHAND FEATURE REQUEST 2: pulling down the centres node at the bottom of the text frame = increase leading. Typographically speaking - AD has some way to go yet. Keep up the great work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Harris Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 There's been a slight improvement to the text tool - it now lets you move the text box when hovered over the top of the frame - without changing tool. That's been in the beta for many months, but I guess the App Store version was only updated recently. You are working on text - moving it into position, moving other objects around it, then changing the text again, tweaking other objects in relation to it and so on and so on… You can move, resize and rotate the selected object with any text tool. The only caveat is that you can't select different objects with the Art Text tool, because a click anywhere other than text will create new text. Try using the Frame Text tool instead; you can do more with it than you may realise. Maybe click-to-select should work with the Art Text tool too, and click-to-create new text should only happen on a blank part of the canvas. The problem is that with some designs, it's not always easy to find a blank spot, and then you'd have to move the text back to where you really want it, after you'd created it. You could drag instead (that would still always create), but then getting a consistent size is harder. For example, creating a number of text labels, all 12pt, all on top of existing art, would be harder if we changed this. GIVE US A TOGGLE KEY FOE MOVE TOOL. In the App Store version, Escape will switch to the Move tool. In the next beta, Escape will deselect the text and then V will switch to the Move tool. Obviously V cannot switch to the Move tool when you are editing text, because it has to insert a letter V instead. No app has V toggle the Move tool when editing text. Also - the text box still doesn't expand automatically as more text is created. Art Text grows to fit the text. Frame text wraps instead. Both are doing what they are designed to do. Given how overflow Frame text simple extends down past the bottom of the frame, I'm not sure what difference expanding the frame down would make? Also - FREEHAND FEATURE REQUEST 2: pulling down the centres node at the bottom of the text frame = increase leading. You can increase leading via the keyboard with Alt-Down, and via the mouse with a control in the context toolbar. The bottom centre node resizes the object for all objects; I don't think we should make that do something different for text. We could add more handles, but that would make the screen more cluttered, and I'm not convinced it's worth it give we already have so many other ways to change leading. At some point we'll probably add a Fit text to frame attribute. Then resizing the frame will adjust leading and other things to keep the frame full. Typographically speaking - AD has some way to go yet. Sure. The main issue here seems quite subtle, and quite hard to nail down what we're currently doing wrong. I think your view is different to roonieb's, for example. Also I wonder whether some of this is down to not knowing how best to use our different Text tools. Keep up the great work. Thanks for your feedback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronnyb Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Awesome Dave! Can't wait to try it. In general, Esc key ought to do behave that way with ALL tools: first Esc deselect the currently highlighted text input field if there is one (anywhere in the UI), while a second tap on Esc should then deselect the current object... Thanks again for listening to feedback! So the problem is that we're switching away the from the Text tool too soon: almost the opposite of the intial report. But that does sound plausible. I've changed it so that it clears the text highlight if there is one, and if not de-selects the text object. You'll then need to press V to get out of the Text tool entirely, as with other tools. I know we put in the switching tools behaviour for a reason, but it feels OK with this new behaviour, so we'll see what feedback we get from the next beta. Quote 2021 16” Macbook Pro w/ M1 Max 10c cpu /24c gpu, 32 GB RAM, 1TB SSD, Sonoma 14.4.1 2018 11" iPad Pro w/ A12X cpu/gpu, 256 GB, iPadOS 17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Harris Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Is this all good now, in v1.2.1.25597? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshTeriyaki Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 I'm going to apologise in advance. Tool consistency vs "What you'll actually spend more time doing". The current MAS version has (I believe) the correct behaviour. esc goes back to the selection tool. Most people are less likely to drop many text items in sequence. Normally it's type for a logo, perhaps a paragraph or two. Keeping the tool active until a second esc just makes it feel a bit broken still. Clicking outside is sufficient for this IMO. In an attempt to not start an argument, any chance (I know..) we could get this as a preference? Or perhaps a mode of the text tool. ...sorry again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronnyb Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Yes! It works perfectly Dave! This will make text edits much easier... Is this all good now, in v1.2.1.25597? Quote 2021 16” Macbook Pro w/ M1 Max 10c cpu /24c gpu, 32 GB RAM, 1TB SSD, Sonoma 14.4.1 2018 11" iPad Pro w/ A12X cpu/gpu, 256 GB, iPadOS 17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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