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CaptNeo

Parts of UI Ignore Pen and Touch Input on Surface 4 Pro

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Yes, keyboard and mouse work. It's just the pen that doesn't. (For reference, I have a Dell Active Stylus on my Dell XPS, but it sounds like it's hitting the exact same bug as the Surface Pro folks.)

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I got to happen again - after almost an hour this time. Pen and touch both stopped working in the same way, only in AD - not in other applications. Keyboard and mouse input work fine. I attached a video of me trying various things with the pen. Here's a rundown:

 

- I could open menus and drop-downs, but...

- I could not active menu/drop-down list items by tapping them (as seen in the video when I try to deselect).

- I could click buttons and checkboxes, switch tabs, select layers and brushes.

- I could not drag sliders.

2017-11-02_20-27-29.mp4

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5 hours ago, sarahgould said:

I got to happen again - after almost an hour this time. Pen and touch both stopped working in the same way, only in AD - not in other applications. Keyboard and mouse input work fine. I attached a video of me trying various things with the pen. Here's a rundown:

 

- I could open menus and drop-downs, but...

- I could not active menu/drop-down list items by tapping them (as seen in the video when I try to deselect).

- I could click buttons and checkboxes, switch tabs, select layers and brushes.

- I could not drag sliders.

2017-11-02_20-27-29.mp4

Very much like what I was experiencing, too. However, I also could not click buttons in dialogs.

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7 hours ago, sarahgould said:

I got to happen again - after almost an hour this time. Pen and touch both stopped working in the same way, only in AD - not in other applications. Keyboard and mouse input work fine. I attached a video of me trying various things with the pen. Here's a rundown:

 

- I could open menus and drop-downs, but...

- I could not active menu/drop-down list items by tapping them (as seen in the video when I try to deselect).

- I could click buttons and checkboxes, switch tabs, select layers and brushes.

- I could not drag sliders.

2017-11-02_20-27-29.mp4

 

Great, thanks for the video. When you're using your Surface Pro 4, do you have any other devices attached? e.g. the keyboard cover, or a USB mouse? 

It looked like the application was receiving pen down messages (as you could open menus and combo boxes etc) but when you lifted the pen up, the actions weren't happening?

If you use a trackpad or mouse at this stage, can you use the menus with them?

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1 hour ago, Mark Ingram said:

It looked like the application was receiving pen down messages (as you could open menus and combo boxes etc) but when you lifted the pen up, the actions weren't happening?

If you use a trackpad or mouse at this stage, can you use the menus with them?

Just reproduced it in Photo 1.6 (took 2-3h, though). Type-cover was attached, but with the cover on the back.

  • Menus open, but neither pen or touch can trigger menu items. Pen and eraser still work on the canvas, though.
  • Attached the type-cover the right way and could save my work using the trackpad
  • While the unresponsive 1.6 Photo was still open, I started Designer 1.5 and there everything works just fine

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I didn't have any peripherals attached at the time, bluetooth or otherwise. No other programs open before it happened, either, other than SnagIt for video capture.

 

It seemed to respond to hover actions (it would highlight menu items, for example) and certain "tap" actions - if menu items only activate on pen up and checkboxes, etc. activate on pen down, then that might explain why some UI items work and others don't. Trackpad did work to click menu and drop-down items, while pen and touch did not work.

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58 minutes ago, sarahgould said:

I didn't have any peripherals attached at the time, bluetooth or otherwise. No other programs open before it happened, either, other than SnagIt for video capture.

 

It seemed to respond to hover actions (it would highlight menu items, for example) and certain "tap" actions - if menu items only activate on pen up and checkboxes, etc. activate on pen down, then that might explain why some UI items work and others don't. Trackpad did work to click menu and drop-down items, while pen and touch did not work.

 

Yes I think it's something to do with the pen coming up. Buttons are executed on the "Up" part, whereas controls like Menus are activated on the "Down" part. So that's where the discrepancy is.

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3 minutes ago, sarahgould said:

Awesome, glad we got it narrowed down. Hopefully it can get fixed soon! Let me know if there's anything else I/we can do to help.

 

I'm going to start a 1.6.1.x beta soon, and I'll try to add some logging into the application so we can see what's being received. Keep an eye on the beta forum for updates.

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On 03/11/2017 at 5:46 PM, sarahgould said:

Awesome, glad we got it narrowed down. Hopefully it can get fixed soon! Let me know if there's anything else I/we can do to help.

 

Hi Sarah (and others experiencing this problem), can you try the latest customer beta:

 

Designer: https://forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php?/topic/50367-affinity-designer-customer-beta-16193/

Photo: https://forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php?/topic/50368-affinity-photo-customer-beta-16193/

 

 

And then use the new --no-click-through command line option (please let me know if you don't know how to do this, and we can walk you through making a new shortcut with options).

 

You will notice that after you have opened a popup (e.g. menu or toolbar popup) you will need to click once to close the popup, and then once more to perform your actual click, this is one downside of this flag, but it will help to narrow down the problem.

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On 17.11.2017 at 0:06 PM, Mark Ingram said:

Hi Sarah (and others experiencing this problem), can you try the latest customer beta:

Thanks a lot, will download and setup immediately. Are there any logs/reports I should save and post if/when the problem resurfaces?

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46 minutes ago, CaptNeo said:

Thanks a lot, will download and setup immediately. Are there any logs/reports I should save and post if/when the problem resurfaces?

 

No, I just need to know if the problem still occurs with that flag. That will help us narrow down the area to look at. Thanks!

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Just now, CaptNeo said:

Yessir!

 

 

Oh. That's a shame. That flag disabled the one part of code in the application which I thought could have been responsible for the problem. Have you used any other applications on your Surface Pro 4 for extended periods of time, like Affinity Designer? I'm just wondering whether this problem is unique to us (even though other applications might not be affected at the same time).

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11 minutes ago, Mark Ingram said:

 

Oh. That's a shame. That flag disabled the one part of code in the application which I thought could have been responsible for the problem. Have you used any other applications on your Surface Pro 4 for extended periods of time, like Affinity Designer? I'm just wondering whether this problem is unique to us (even though other applications might not be affected at the same time).

Usually I don't do too much penwork with Designer, so I cannot speak to it (will try to confirm though, if that's helpful). However, I've worked for hours with OneNote, ArtRage 4 and Photoshop CC on the Surface. This specific bug does not occur in these apps, at least not so soon. What's your UI framework? I'd guess Qt QML because of the cross-plattform availability. Maybe one should try and test other apps that share that framework.

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Just now, CaptNeo said:

Usually I don't do too much penwork with Designer, so I cannot speak to it (will try though to confirm, if that's helpful). However, I've worked for hours with OneNote, ArtRage 4 and Photoshop CC on the Surface. This specific bug does not occur in these apps, at least not so soon. What's your UI framework? I'd guess Qt QML because of the cross-plattform availability. Maybe one should try and test other apps that share that framework.

 

Each platform uses a native UI framework, so we use WPF on Windows. 

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38 minutes ago, Mark Ingram said:

 

Each platform uses a native UI framework, so we use WPF on Windows. 

Wow, that's mighty impressive! You guys are doing an excellent job there.

Back to the problem at hand, I'd bet Photoshop and ArtRage are running on older frameworks. Photoshop, because... well, it's Photoshop, and ArtRage has many fundamental scaling issues on hdpi displays that are not typical for WPF. Also, the Office-Team did not adopt WPF as framework (at least until 2013), so OneNote is off the hook as well.

I'll try to replicate the bug with the Beta of Designer. Do you know by any chance, if MS Expression Designer uses WPF as framework? I believe, it does. I'd give it a try as well to see if the bug manifests there as well.

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15 hours ago, CaptNeo said:

Do you know by any chance, if MS Expression Designer uses WPF as framework? 

 

I believe it does, though it's structured a little differently to us in that it uses a native window at the top level, then hosts WPF content inside it, whereas we're WPF app from top down. That might mean that menus in MS Expression Designer continue to work (though you should be able to replicate it with other popups).

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15 hours ago, CaptNeo said:

Do you know by any chance, if MS Expression Designer uses WPF as framework?

 

My previous post was incorrect, it's a WPF app in exactly the same way that ours is, so if you'd like to try using MS Expression Designer for a bit and report back, that would be really useful to us!

 

Thanks :)

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I have got the same problem with my new Surface Pro (model 1796), Pen and Affinity Designer (1.6.1.93). UI Elements that are inside of hovering UI elements stop to respond while I can still draw and use UI elements that are always visible. Any news on this? As I bought the Surface just to use for AD this is not very satisfying.

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In the mean time I managed to spend an evening with the Surface and Expression Design.During two hours of constant dooling and brush-switching I didn't experience any problems with the drop-down menus there.

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