Better Boolean Operations

[dkibui]

Hey,

 

I have used AD for less than a month and I have absolutely fallen in love with it. It is so well thought out and implemented, I am already a customer and I wish for it to stay this way. That being said, I am honestly let down by how limited the Boolean operations are.

 

I realise this is a pretty new software and it might not have all the features I had in Ai but I expect that the features that are implemented are well implemented. For instance, if you have a shape that is intersecting with itself, there is no way to subdivide it into individual shapes resulting from those intersections. I have attached two shapes to better demonstrate this.

 

In Ai, if you use ADD on such shapes, it gets subdivided into different shapes. This is so useful for exporting complex shapes to 3D software for extruding like maps. 3D software don't work with intersecting paths from the same shape. I wish the divide operation was able to sub-cut these kinds of shapes.

 

Is it something that is in the pipeline? because as a matter of fact AD is quite weak in secondary vector manipulations. After you have converted a shape into curves, there goes your power more so in stroke mode. Cutting them, joining them and everything in between is quite a hustle.

 

Hopefully all this changes soon because I genuinely love AD. Thanks!

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UPDATE

 

First of all, I am overwhelmed by the honest concern and genuine replies. Makes me love AD all the more, just knowing there are people willing to help whenever you need assistance. What a community! So thank you a million to everyone for taking your time to reply;)

 

I have decided to update this post to make it a little clearer what exactly I wanted to know. Here I have attached three more files. The reason I posted this here is because I needed to know if there is a way to remove all intersecting paths in AD. In Ai, you select the shape you want to remove the intersections and just hit the ADD or DIVIDE Boolean operation. From my own research and the feedback I have received here, it is impossible to do that. I guess I have to keep using AI, :rolleyes:

 

I can only hope this makes the question a little clear.

 

Divide operation test.afdesign

[Bri-Toon]

That was worded very nicely. I'm glad to see you are loving the software. It's my favorite.

 

For instance, if you have a shape that is intersecting with itself, there is no way to subdivide it into individual shapes resulting from those intersections. 

 

Sure you can, matie, but with a command key. Hold Alt while pressing one of the boolean buttons. That will convert the two overlapping shapes into a compound shape. Then whether you use Mac or Windows, you can select an object individually holding Command or Control. It doesn't always work, and if it doesn't in that case, then expand the compound layer and select the individual that way.

 

After you have converted a shape into curves, there goes your power more so in stroke mode. Cutting them, joining them and everything in between is quite a hustle.

 

For this, you do not want to convert the smart shapes into curves until you are happy with the form for future manipulation. The reason you lose the smart shape functionality is because the new shape could be far off from what the original could do. Therefor, Designer wouldn't be able to recognize the new shape.

 

HOWEVER...

 

If you use the compound boolean operations, then you still have the smart shape functionalities.

[Alfred]

For instance, if you have a shape that is intersecting with itself, there is no way to subdivide it into individual shapes resulting from those intersections.

 

Sure you can, matie, but with a command key. Hold Alt while pressing one of the boolean buttons. That will convert the two overlapping shapes into a compound shape. Then whether you use Mac or Windows, you can select an object individually holding Command or Control. It doesn't always work, and if it doesn't in that case, then expand the compound layer and select the individual that way.

 

The OP's second example (with the overlapping circle and rectangle) can easily be split up into its component parts by clicking on the 'Divide' icon in the Geometry section of the top toolbar, but I can't see a way to do anything similar with a self-intersecting shape like the first example.

 

Try drawing a Z shape with the Pen Tool in Polygon Mode, and then join the ends to give you a closed curve with a kind of hourglass shape. It will look like two triangles joined at one of their vertices, but how do you split it into two triangles?

[Bri-Toon]

Try drawing a Z shape with the Pen Tool in Polygon Mode, and then join the ends to give you a closed curve with a kind of hourglass shape. It will look like two triangles joined at one of their vertices, but how do you split it into two triangles?

 

It looks like I misunderstood the request. Even though the OP said dividing objects by themselves, I was thinking others for some reason. Sorry about that. As far as I know, that cannot be done.

[dutchshader]

The OP's second example (with the overlapping circle and rectangle) can easily be split up into its component parts by clicking on the 'Divide' icon in the Geometry section of the top toolbar, but I can't see a way to do anything similar with a self-intersecting shape like the first example.

 

Try drawing a Z shape with the Pen Tool in Polygon Mode, and then join the ends to give you a closed curve with a kind of hourglass shape. It will look like two triangles joined at one of their vertices, but how do you split it into two triangles?

it works when you copy the shape select both layers and than use devide

[A_B_C]

No … that doesn’t work either. Unfortunately. Would have been a great workaround. Try it with the shape that Alfred has suggested.  :(

[dutchshader]

that is what i did and after devide i have this:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Alfred]

It looks like I misunderstood the request. Even though the OP said dividing objects by themselves, I was thinking others for some reason. Sorry about that. As far as I know, [the first example] cannot be done.

 

Actually, 'Divide' doesn't work for the second example (the overlapping circle and rectangle) either. :( I guess I was thinking of the way 'Combine/Break Apart' works in Serif DrawPlus, but that's a rather different scenario.

[dkibui]

Thank you everyone for the replies. I really really appreciate them.

 

I have updated my initial post with more attachments including an original Affinity file to clearly illustrate exactly what I was trying to achieve. I have taken my time to attempt every single suggestion posted here and I feel sad to realize that Affinity does not have a way to realize what I was trying to achieve.

 

Fingers crossed, I hope this will change soon.

 

@dutchshader

I have tried the duplicate and divide way, it doesn't create 2 triangles automatically which is what I expected. However, it does create two nodes at the point intersection which means you can manually move, break curve and join the node accordingly. I am quite excited to learn this. It will come in handy at some point in the future I'm sure.

[dutchshader]

funny thing is, that when you don't switch the upper nodes, but the upper and bottom right node. then copy and select both and divide. you will have 2 triangles.

 

wonder why it works this way.

[dkibui]

...when you don't switch the upper nodes, but the upper and bottom right node. then copy and select both and divide...

 

I am sorry but I don't quite understand what you meant to say here, kindly explain or illustrate if it's not too much to ask

 

 

 

[dutchshader]

In your affile example the 2 upper nodes are switched, i switched the upper right and bottom right node.

[dkibui]

Ooh my! I just tried that and it works!

 

What is the rationale for the different results? Do you think there is a reason for this different outcome? 

[A_B_C]

This is an interesting workaround and an ingenious find, but please be aware, it shouldn’t count as a regular operation or as the official substitute for a missing Divide option on self-intersecting shapes. I don’t want to disparage the find in itself, but add a little word of warning …  ;)

 

The Divide algorithm produces quite a few unexpected results in particular use cases, and this has been acknowledged by the developers in the past:

 

https://forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php?/topic/12629-affinity-designer-customer-beta-1351/?p=56676 (and subsequent discussion)

https://forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php?/topic/12417-modify-a-target-object-by-destructively-clipping-with-a-second-object/

https://forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php?/topic/1319-unexpected-results-using-divide/

 

As far as I know, Matt is still working on the Boolean algorithms, so it is to be expected that things may change considerably in the future. As a result, the workaround might not work anymore, so please be aware of the situation.

 

Cheers,

Alex  :)

[dkibui]

Thanks A_B_C for the links. They are an eye opener. It concerns me that these are known issues going back to 2014/2015. If this AD roadmap link is anything to go by, these features are not even in the pipeline! I am wishing the developers all the very best because I am rooting for Affinity/Serif. I will continue to use AD and just keep learning in the meantime.

 

https://forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php?/topic/10410-common-feature-requests-index/

[Bri-Toon]

Actually, 'Divide' doesn't work for the second example (the overlapping circle and rectangle) either. :( I guess I was thinking of the way 'Combine/Break Apart' works in Serif DrawPlus, but that's a rather different scenario.

 

It may not be as intuitive, but here's an idea.

 

Dkibui,

I didn't know that Illustrator could use boolean operations on just a single path. The best help I can give for a workaround is this.

 

20170629134344(1).mov

 

Also, the Affinity staff said that they are working on improving the boolean operations. If you are to follow those same instruction but select subtract instead, the to split regions should be two separate objects but they don't split like Illustrator.

[dkibui]

"It may not be as intuitive, but here's an idea." ...

 

Yesterday I noticed that perhaps my communication was a little ambiguous so I decided to update my post. You can see it at the top;) Hehe

 

The image I initially uploaded was meant to illustrate the point I was making that, if you have a shape formed by one closed path and that path happens to intersect with itself then AD does not offer a means to divide that path into separate shapes formed by that intersection. Please see the attached image and the small write up on it.

 

" Dkibui,

I didn't know that Illustrator could use boolean operations on just a single path." ...

 

So yeah, Illustrator will allow you to perform boolean operation on a single closed path that intersects with itself. See the attached image. You can give it a try in Ai.

 

"20170629134344(1).mov"...

 

As for the video above, that operation absolutely works. Affinity's Boolean works in basic uses like Add*, Subtract, Divide* and Combine*. It just happens to leave out other necessary outcomes as results. Anyone who has done some 3D will tell you how paths on the same shape must not intersect and if you need to export paths from your Vector software to 3D, that Vector software must allow you to clean paths by removing intersections on the same path. In Illustrator, you use the Add or Divide Boolean. The attached images shows how. In my case I mostly use it on the world map when designing broadcast intros for news which uses a 3D world model.

 

In my opinion, a well implemented divide and Add operations together should be able to give all possible outcomes in Boolean operations. Just in more than one click. Anyway that's up to the developers at this point, I am sure they will find a way to do it and do it well.

 

[cgartists]

I apologise not reading this topic as I have a short deadline but there MUST be an option to cancel Union boolean operation.

[Bri-Toon]

I support this request since boolean operations are a pretty crucial piece in vector design, and I'll be honest, I was unaware of the limitations until this topic. As you said, Designer is still a newer program, but I will say from my own experience, it is great for achieving a lot of tasks whereas I feel Illustrator just cannot pull them off. Seeing the way progress moves on this forum, I guarantee such a task will be addressed within time.

[Guest]

it works when you copy the shape select both layers and than use devide

Thanks for this tip that works and which I would not have thought!

[Bri-Toon]

Thanks for this tip that works and which I would not have thought!

 

Me neither. That is certainly helpful, and I will recommend that from now on.

 

Dkibui,

In addition to that, you may already be aware, but you can press Ctrl or Cmd J to make a duplicate right on top of your original. If you move the copy, then pressing Ctrl or Cmd J will perform the Power Duplicate.

[dkibui]

Me neither. That is certainly helpful, and I will recommend that from now on.

 

It is a cool workaround, notice it only creates nodes at the centre which now allows you to manually cut and join the paths to achieve the look you were going for. I think it's always nice to know a workaround in case you get stuck

 

Dkibui,

In addition to that, you may already be aware, but you can press Ctrl or Cmd J to make a duplicate right on top of your original. If you move the copy, then pressing Ctrl or Cmd J will perform the Power Duplicate.

 

When I began using AD, I used Alt drag just like in Ai and it works! I think I watched a power duplicate tutorial in Vimeo which is where I learnt about ctrl J. Come to think of it, it's like paste in place for Ai, and why does Ai paste in a random location by default? SMH. This is how making a copy should always behave. I love the feature

[Bri-Toon]

It is a cool workaround, notice it only creates nodes at the centre which now allows you to manually cut and join the paths to achieve the look you were going for. I think it's always nice to know a workaround in case you get stuck

 

 

Well, well, it looks like you solved your own problem and taught me something as well. I guess you can say I'm an old newbie.  :P

 

When I began using AD, I used Alt drag just like in Ai and it works! I think I watched a power duplicate tutorial in Vimeo which is where I learnt about ctrl J. Come to think of it, it's like paste in place for Ai, and why does Ai paste in a random location by default? SMH. This is how making a copy should always behave. I love the feature

 

Oh yes, pasting in place is definitely a helpful hand; especially when pasting inside for something like shading.

[dkibui]

Well, well, it looks like you solved your own problem and taught me something as well. I guess you can say I'm an old newbie.  :P

 

Oh yes, pasting in place is definitely a helpful hand; especially when pasting inside for something like shading.

 

Hehe, you are an expert in AD, you know your stuff. I on the other hand I'm a newbie, a progressive newbie perhaps.

 

Again it was nice learning the workaround, it will come in handy for non complex vectors like exporting logos for 3D animation but for complex vectors like maps, I will still need to use Ai. This workaround is just not applicable for shapes with hundreds of thousands of nodes because you have to correct intersections manually.

 

Newbie today, expert tomorrow. I have every intention of becoming an expert AD user. Fingers crossed

[Bri-Toon]

Newbie today, expert tomorrow. I have every intention of becoming an expert AD user. Fingers crossed

 

Sounds good. Once you're comfortable, make sure you take advantage of the "Share your Work" section.