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My customer demands an uncompressed TIFF file. What do I do? It's not for me to discuss with the customer if uncompressed TIFF files makes sense or not - if the customer wants it I'll have to deliver it! What do I do? Does AP force me to load the compressed TIFF to PS and save it as uncompressed TIFF file from there?

Cheers, Timo


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since its not possible yet to change the compression method , it sounds more like the well known feature request(s).

Seems like your described way of using other programs is in that case necessary.

https://forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php?/topic/32097-is-affinity-photo-tiff-compression-algorithm-lossless/

https://forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php?/topic/30132-tiff-export-compression/


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<sarcasm on> Oh, of course ... that really makes a lot of sense. File format setting are irrelevant anyhow. So Serif better continues focussing on AP for iPad and Affinity Publisher <sarcasm off>

;-)


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DarkClown, statements like these are exactly the reason why people might occasionally find your attitude a bit offensive. It's correct that you're not the one to question your customer's demands about specific file formats. On the other hand, it's not up to Serif to help you manage these customer requests exclusively with one of their software products. The fact that file format settings are not (yet) implemented in Affinity Photo doesn't say anything about this feature's priority on the roadmap, despite your comment implying something else and especially since the issue has already been accomplished by the developers.

 

If I'd have to put this into context, I'd honestly be tempted to say that the need for a specific compression method in TIFFs absolutely is an edge case (as long as the method used is lossless, which is the case in Affinity). For you personally, I don't know - maybe your customers frequently have those requirements. In this case, no, AP does not force you to use Photoshop. There's at least a dozen small tools out there that are specifically tailored to image filetype conversion, many of them being small and lightweight and even with batch/automatic processing options.

 

While I would also appreciate if I had these settings available directly in Photo, I really don't find it unacceptable to take this ten second extra step of saving the file again from an external application. For everything else, I can politely file a feature request. No sarcasm required.

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Agree with you. It's not a bug but a lacking feature. It can be overcome by using many other programs ... it's just annoying. I thought undoubtly and needless to say a feature filled sw as AP would include various compression methods for TIF export ... But you're right on my list of things to fix this would be way down ...

... and keep the twinkling smiley at the end of the posting in mind ;-)


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On ‎26‎/‎06‎/‎2017 at 11:30 AM, DarkClown said:

My customer demands an uncompressed TIFF file...

It's not for me to discuss with the customer if uncompressed TIFF files makes sense or not...

I think it's a fair request.  The two main reasons people ask for uncompressed TIFF's is because:

1) They want the images in 16-bit format.  16-bit TIFF files with LZW compression have a larger file size than 16-bit uncompressed TIFF files and in addition the compression makes them slower when batch processing them.  Therefore due to the increased file size and reduced performance, saving 16-bit TIFF's with LZW compression makes little sense.

2) Long-term file storage.  Data archival organisations recommendations state to use uncompressed TIFF as the file format for long-term preservation of digital images files.

Therefore I think it's a reasonable feature request for Affinity Photo to allow saving TIFF files without any compression.

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<sarcasm on> Oh, of course ... that really makes a lot of sense. File format setting are irrelevant anyhow. So Serif better continues focussing on AP for iPad and Affinity Publisher <sarcasm off>

 

;-)

 

I think the many users who have already purchased AP for iPad, and the countless users waiting on Publisher might entirely disagree with you there.

 

So, we should put all our resources into quickly implementing an edge case feature requested by less than five users, or put time into the things that many (thousands) users want?


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Hi Ben,
I'm pretty sure those users desperately waiting for a Video and DAM app from serif would queue up with those waiting for the promised Publisher for years now - for sure they will all entirely disagree with me ... so does your marketing and sales... ;-) - Does it mean we will have to wait for the implementation of such features as uncompressed TIF until Video app, DAM, Publisher etc. are available? Is my understanding correct that once a product is available serif moves on and developmentwise puts the priority on a completely new product since popssibly thousands of new customers are waiting?

I do understand the commercial aspects serif hast to follow up on but do you want to compare the implementation and the requirfed dev. effort of standard features (feel free to disagree) with the released of a complete new product?

Why should more than 5 people request something that has been requested already and where inconvenient workarounds are available? I wonder if serif development perceives such features and requests as unimportant?
(this is not meant reproachful but just for me to undestand the process).
Cheers, Timo


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I'm just pointing out that the things you are highlighting as absolutely vital have only been mentioned by a handful of people.  If we prioritise the least demanded features or improvements, most people won't be happy.

 

I've also replied on another of your threads regarding how we try to prioritise the work of moving Affinity forward.  It may not be the way you want it, but we try move the features forward that will give the greatest gain for the largest number of users.  That is just economic sense.  That is not just about adding new platforms or products, but also improving on existing products.

 

We will improve all features over time.  Export is an ongoing (and large) part of Affinity, and something we have revised a couple of times already, with features we still plan to implement as soon as time allows.  Export has largely been my area, with some parts of raster formats down to AndyS.  I tend to spend cycles of time in different areas of the app - whether it be export, snapping, tools, etc.

 

The way we have developed Affinity also means that some gains work across all our apps/platforms, so don't assume the addition of an app of platform proportionally dilutes our manpower.  That is one of the great advantages to the strategy we set out with.  This has also been covered in a number of threads, so I'm not going to repeat it again here.


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Hello,
After a quick search on DuckDuckGo, I found this post about "Uncompressed TIFF" in AP. I design covers for some music labels and I work with AP and uncompressed TIFF is a need because Apple iTunes/Music needs covers 4000x4000px sRGB in uncompressed TIFF file format. And after the second feed back I understound AP can't do it (!!!) and I'll have to use a 3rd party software to convert AP TIFF files to an uncompressed version (-_-!).
For the little story, I use the Irix's picture viewer of my SGI Octane to do it ... a 17 years old computer ... just because it's fun :4_joy::13_upside_down:

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@ Fixx : No of course not :4_joy: But the Irix's Picture Viewer has got simple great options to enhance the sharpness of a picture. I have never found this kind of options in any picture editing softwares. In fact you can find these kind of options in 3D softwares to correct and to adjust the antialiasing before a render (antialiasing filters - AAF) ... I have to write a post with examples because results are really good !

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It would be wrong to assume only 5 people find the lack of uncompressed files a problem. Typically, for every 1 person that takes the time to report a problem or frustration in their usage, there are a dozen that don't. So you have 100's who are likely frustrated over this.

AP does a lot of things very well. It also does a lot of things "not quite right". I understand that it's an evolving product, but to pass off issues like this as too insignificant to be concerned about is a dis-service to the product and it's customers. I would not be making a comment on this at all (why bother), except to add my feedback to your response about this missing feature.

I want AP to work well. I want it to be the best solution there is. But as I've found frustrations over things like this, I have also found I'm using it less and less over time. The details do mater.

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28 minutes ago, DVan said:

It would be wrong to assume only 5 people find the lack of uncompressed files a problem.

I agree, but at the same time the list of requested features is huge. Many of them have been deemed "essential" or "must haves" by a few users, including many that most users would never use. So this is also about which ones would benefit the most users, as well as how much work it would take to add & debug them without destabilizing or otherwise compromising the features we already have.

 

I suspect if everyone compiled a list of their most wanted features & improvements, there would be very little agreement about which ones are the most important.


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Serif uses a particular library for TIFFs. It doesn't seem that this issue...which or if any...compression scheme is or isn't used would be a big deal to implement. It's a flag to set (a codec in their terms) in the export routine code and a corresponding addition in the UI.

 

Whether or not there is compression seems to me low-hanging fruit and could be implemented easily enough during a beta cycle.

 

But then, what do I know?


My computer is a nothing-special Toshiba laptop with unremarkable specs running Windows 10 64-bit.

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14 minutes ago, MikeW said:

It's a flag to set (a codec in their terms) in the export routine code and a corresponding addition in the UI.

I am not so sure it is that simple. I took a quick look at the documentation at http://www.libtiff.org & noticed there are many references to machine-specific routines & a lot of different ways image data can be exchanged between the library & an app. There is also mention of an interface that can be used to override the default compression scheme, but there seems to be more to it than just setting a flag.

 

But then, what do I know? ;)


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A flag is being explicitly set (maybe the numeral 5). If not explicitly set, the default is zero which if I recall is uncompressed. But it has been 20 years since I used the library. Heck, I cannot really recall how long ago I last used it for that matter and no longer have access to neither the environment I used (won't install on Windows 10 and the $1600 to update is a hindrance) and so cannot even poke into the code to see.

 

Might be able to un-archive it and get to the documentation if I hook up a ZIP drive to the XP PRO computer I'm building. But the again, that's more work than I wanna do.


My computer is a nothing-special Toshiba laptop with unremarkable specs running Windows 10 64-bit.

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All I can say for sure is that on Macs, there is a liblibtiff dynamic library at path /Applications/Affinity Photo.app/Contents/Frameworks & one of slightly different size at the same path for Designer. I assume the extra 'lib' in the name means something but I have no idea how that relates to the info at libtiff.com.


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4 hours ago, DVan said:

It would be wrong to assume only 5 people find the lack of uncompressed files a problem. Typically, for every 1 person that takes the time to report a problem or frustration in their usage, there are a dozen that don't. So you have 100's who are likely frustrated over this.

In my case, it's not a frustration, it's a need. I create artwork for music labels and Apple iTunes always ask us uncompressed TIFF files (4000x4000@300dpi-sRGB or AdobeRGB) ; if not, your file is rejected by their systems of validation. And when I create covers for physical albums, SONY Music wants a complete folder with pre-press files, fonts, PDF, ... and images in uncompressed TIFF. So it's not a luby.

I love working with Affinity Photo, it's a very powerfull and great software but this little lack force me too always use another software to complete my images job ... Annoying, isn't it ?

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I am a photographer and like many photographers I use a RIP to output my files to printer. I use ImagePrint from ColorByte Software. Kind of an industry standard. Anyway, they require, for obvious reasons, uncompressed TIFF files. I just dumped my Adobe CS and have been exclusively using Affinity Photo. But had not,  until yesterday, tried to open a TIFF created by Affinity to print using my RIP. 

 

So that makes 6 people now that need uncompressed TIFF files. Since uncompressed is the most useable format, maybe default to that and let those that need compression use a tool to compress their TIFF files. As it is I am dead in the water.

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On 3/2/2018 at 1:26 AM, ucs308 said:

Anyway, they require, for obvious reasons, uncompressed TIFF files.

 

Not at all so obvious to me, sorry. Can you please explain why it‘s so obvious that you can‘t use compressed TIFFs except because your software doesn‘t support them?

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I do not offer any solutions but have a bit of background info. 

There was a time not too long ago that the LZW compression algorithm was covered by a patent that meant paying if your software used it. Consequently lots of software companies chose not to support the compressed version of TIFF files at all for import or export (including some of the Plus range). Uncompressed TIFF was the norm for cheaper software. The patent has expired some time ago and much software added compression as an additional option. The files are so very much smaller so compression is a sensible default. If the patent had never been in place I suspect uncompressed files would be very unusual.

Any software that has never added support for LZW compression will suggest to the users that it's not an issue to save without compression. So that is where we are.


Patrick Connor

Serif (Europe) Ltd.

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