Is it interface inconsistency? (objects vs text transformations)

[mfdenis]

Hi all, just started testing Affinity. First note: when I create simple objects (let's say, rectangles) - to scale them proportionally I drag the corner while pressing SHIFT on keyboard - just like in Illustrator. BUT when I create TEXT and trying do do the same - scale (same way - drag the corner, while pressing SHIFT) - it transforms absolutely free way - doesn't keep proportions. But when I'm not pressing SHIFT and simply drag the corner of text - it starts transforming the way I wanted before - proportionally. I think, it's not a bug, but it is interface inconsistency - to transform different things you have to use different approaches.

[MattP]

Hello and welcome to the forums! :)

 

It's definitely inconsistent, but it is done deliberately and has worked very well for us in the past: That doesn't mean that we won't reconsider if there are compelling arguments against it though...

 

If you consider the Shift key as an aspect-ratio constraining modifier, then things make more sense. Basically, if you imagine you didn't have knowledge of the Shift key, you would want to be able to resize a rectangle/ellipse/curve freely, but if you were to resize text freely you would just get some ugly looking text. So certain items (groups, images, text) force the tool to automatically constrain, and the remaining objects force unconstrained resize. The Shift key is used to modify that default behaviour. The idea is that most people will not notice that it has done the auto-constrain/unconstrained logic because it just did what they expected to happen - but clearly it's not always true ;)

 

Cheers,

Matt

[mfdenis]

Hello, Matt,

 

Before using AI I've used Corel a lot. There was VERY strict and obvious behaveur - if you pull the corner (any object) - you scale with keeping aspect-ratio. All other transformation dots on objects allowed to deform any object any way. So, later, when I've switched to Illustrator it took a while for me to learn about SHIFT key. Since I've learned it, I never think about IN WHICH CASE I should use it OR not - just pressing it and that's all the story. Now, Affinity doesn't behave one way all the time - on some objects I'm supposed to use SHIFT, on others - I supposed NOT to use it.. EEwww.. I don't want to remember or rediscover the order of things all the time %) It's not simplification, it's complication.. There are two different approaches that Corel and Adobe uses, but it seems that you're trying to mix them up. and I'm not sure it's for good. Define yourself %)

 

Regards, Denis.

[MattP]

I'll have a play with a version that constrains everything by default and see how I get on with it - as I said, we are not going to ignore our users blindly, so watch this space... :)

[mfdenis]

Thanks, Matt!

[davidpwrmc]

If it's the case that you are wanting "votes" on this behavior (oops....I presume that should be "behaviour" for a UK board   ;) ), then I cast my vote for standardization along the lines of what Denis was suggesting.....that of using SHIFT as a modifier for all items as opposed to using it for one sort of item and not another.  

 

I have only used Illustrator, and so I am used to the SHIFT constraint standard.  But if you were to come down on the side of constraining scaling without the SHIFT key, then that would be fine too. I would just suggest choosing one way or the other and going with it.  Complexity is an ogre when it comes to user interface!    

 

Thanks!  

 

 - David  

 

 

"England and America are two countries separated by the same language."        ;)

George Bernard Shaw

[MattP]

Hello! :)

 

You can expect the next beta version to always lock aspect-ratio if you drag a corner handle, unless you override it with the Shift modifier. I've tried it out for a little while now and I'm just about managing to cope with it and am still able to draw things! ;)

 

Let me know how you get on with it in the next beta!

 

Cheers,

Matt

[rui_mac]

I have always assumed that dragging without modifiers is a non-constrained drag. Dragging with Shift is a a constrained drag. If it is a "move" drag, it constrains to vertical/horizontal (and, sometimes to a preset set of angles) movement. If it is a resize drag, it constrains to proportional scaling. If it is a rotation drag, it constrains to a preset angle snap (usually 5 or 15 degrees).

So, whenever I find an application that doesn't follow these standards, I have to shift (no pun intended) my mind set.

It would be nice to find some common ground and maybe a pool would be a good way to find what best suits the most.

 

Rui Batista

[davidpwrmc]

One additional thought regarding scaling objects with/without the SHIFT constraint:  as I had mentioned some time ago, I had suggested choosing one way or the other (i.e. either use a SHIFT-constraiint for all objects or for no objects) and then going with it.  Having given some further thought to it, I came across another consideration which MIGHT suit parties on both sides of the aisle.  Perhaps Designer could be set up in such a way so that it ships with a default setting of no modifier key involved (such as was suggested by MattP above)....but there could be an option set up in Preferences that would allow the user to toggle over into "SHIFT constraint mode" so that dragging with the SHIFT key held down would constrain the scaling for vertical/horizontal. 

 

Reason for this suggestion: if you are trying to appeal to a large group of current Illustrator users, then they are going to be used to using the SHIFT key constraint and so providing them with this option may be a good way to ease the transition from Illustrator to Designer.   

 

Anyway, just a thought on this.  I know that the developers have enough to occupy their time currently and this may be more of a distraction than they might want to be bothered with right now.   But, as rui_mac has pointed out, non-constrained drags have generally been assumed to be accomplished without modifiers.  

 

Something to think about.  

 

As I have said before....thank you VERY much for embarking on this quest to provide alternatives to Adobe products on the Mac platform!   :D

 

  - David   

[ronniemcbride]

Ohh god thank you! I was starting to go crazy because of this inconsistentcy. I had to do a search because I knew I could not be the only one. I like the automatic contraint I just have to remember it only happens in Affinity and and not every other application I use. lol

[BethaniRose]

I've just started experimenting with Affinity coming from growing into a design industry with Illustrator and this totally confused me. My first response was to search the help documentation for "scaling" but no dice. Second response was to search the forum and hey presto!

 

I'll add that I really like the idea of a configurable option, but one that is consistently either use shift or don't too - gives the ability to satisfy more users. I must say though, I'm super excited about using this product!