[AP] Adjustment layers stop working if in a group together with a pixel layer

[Alex_M]

If I create a group and put adjustment layers in it, they work fine. However, as soon as I create or put a pixel layer in the group, all adjustment layers in this group stop having any effect on the image even though I haven't hidden them or deleted them. Why does this happen? In Photoshop I can have adjustment layers and "pixel" layers at the same time in a group and they will all have effect and work fine.

 

 

Try it for yourself:

 

1. Open any image.

2. Create an empty group.

3. Put an HSL adjustment layer in that group and drag the "Saturation Shift" slider all the way down to make the image black and white. You'll see the image becoming black and white.

4. Add a new pixel layer to the group above or below the adjustment layer, doesn't matter really.

5.Switch to the Brush tool.

The adjustment layer will stop working.

 

6. Delete the pixel layer.

The adjustment layer will start working again.

This can't be normal?

[DWright]

Hi Alex_M 

 

I have followed your steps and get the same results and I have logged this with the development team

[Alex_M]

Thank you!

[DWright]

I have heard back from the developers and the Adjustment layer not working in the group with a pixel layer is by design as the Adjustments honour group scope unless the group has no actual data then it will pass though.

[Alex_M]

I'm not sure I understand. How can I make it work then?

[- S -]

I'm not sure I understand. How can I make it work then?

 

The HSL adjustment layer doesn't stop working, it's just clipped to that group.  If there's nothing else in the group besides adjustment layers, then it passes though to the layers below.  However, when you add an object or pixel layer to the group, then the adjustment layer becomes clipped to that group.  So in your case, when you add a pixel layer underneath the HSL layer in that group and then paint on it, the HSL layer will only apply to the brush strokes.

 

You haven't said exactly what you're trying to do, however I assume you want the background image to be black and white, but want whatever you paint on the pixel layer to be coloured brush strokes?  In that case clip the HSL layer to the background image (short blue horizontal line) and add the pixel layer above it.  (Alternatively you can add the pixel layer on it's own layer above the group).

 

 

If you want both the background image and the brush stroke to be black and white, then add the pixel layer on it's own layer underneath the group (or underneath an ungrouped HSL adjustment layer).

 

 

If you want the background image to be colour, but whatever is on the pixel layer to be black and white, then clip the HSL layer to the pixel layer.

 

 

 

If you're trying to do something else, it maybe worth posting additional details.

[Alex_M]

If you're trying to do something else, it maybe worth posting additional details.

 

I'm trying to create a group which has a mask, and I want both the adjustment layers and pixel layers to have effect on everything below the group. I don't want the adjustment layers to only have effect on the pixel layers in the group.

[- S -]

I'm trying to create a group which has a mask, and I want both the adjustment layers and pixel layers to have effect on everything below the group. I don't want the adjustment layers to only have effect on the pixel layers in the group.

 

Is there a reason why you can't just put the Adjustment layers on their own layer or group above everything you want them to apply to?

[R C-R]

It may help to review the Affinity Photo - Layer Concepts & Affinity Photo - Layers Overview videos to see how stacking & nesting adjustment & other layers affects the document.

[Alex_M]

Is there a reason why you can't just put the Adjustment layers on their own layer or group above everything you want them to apply to?

 

I guess I could but I though it would be a bit tidier if I didn't have to create more groups than I needed.

 

It may help to review the Affinity Photo - Layer Concepts & Affinity Photo - Layers Overview videos to see how stacking & nesting adjustment & other layers affects the document.

 

Thanks, I'll check these out!

[R C-R]

I have followed your steps and get the same results and I have logged this with the development team

I am curious. How did you "create an empty group" as in Alex_M's step 2? The only way I can do that is to first select or create a pixel, shape, or similar layer, & target that for the make group operation, & then delete that layer, leaving just the empty group with a folder icon in the Layers panel. I see no other way to create an empty group.

 

For that matter, how did you add a new pixel layer to the group (step 4)? -- if I select the group or the HSL adjustment layer in it & click the Add pixel layer button, Affinity Photo automatically adds it above the group, not in it. If I then drag the pixel layer onto the group & drop it there, the HSL layer is moved to the mask position & the pixel layer is placed below it in the normal child layer position.

 

At that point, if I select the pixel layer, the Toolbar "Order" options are greyed out & I cannot manually move it above the HSL layer without it being removed from the group & placed above it. The only way to get both that pixel layer & the HSL layer into child positions in the group is to select the HSL layer instead of the pixel layer, & manually drag it onto the group layer icon. After that, the appropriate Toolbar "Order" options are no longer greyed out & I can use them or manually drag either layer above the other.

 

It is as if the app is trying to prevent me from creating this situation in the first place & the observed behavior of how the HSL layer is passed through when there is no pixel layer in the group for it to be applied to is just there as sort of an alternative to what would otherwise be an error condition.

 

In passing, I also note that it is not necessary to switch to the brush tool (step 5) to see the effect. Anything that updates the canvas will do it, like zooming in or out will as well.

[MEB]

I'm trying to create a group which has a mask, and I want both the adjustment layers and pixel layers to have effect on everything below the group. I don't want the adjustment layers to only have effect on the pixel layers in the group.

Hi Alex_M

There's ways to achieve what you want but not the way you want to do it. I agree with you that this should be possible using the Blend mode to control how adjustments affect layers outside the group (I've passed this to the dev team) but this wasn't implemented that way. It's the presence of pixel layers in the group that determine if the adjustments affect or not layers outside the group - which impose a few restrictions here - and so moving the adjustments to outside the masked group may be the better option as @Sima suggested.

[Alex_M]

Fair enough. I'll try to adjust to this new workflow.

[yakk]

Hi all

If I can join de thread, I have an example where changing the behavior a bit, with both pixel layer and adjustments in a group would be useful.

 

I'm currently working on switching from luminosity masks to "blend if" profiles. I do this by creating groups with at least a curve adjustment in each one and for each group I define a profile in the blend option of the group to target shadows / midtones / highlights.

It works perfectly, you can add other adjustments and also modify the blend profile of the group precisely.

 

The only problem is you don't have a visual feedback of what part of your image is concerned by each group. To get that, you have to create a pixel layer with a flashy color and put it in the group. The adjustments are off then. You need to delete or put the pixel layer somewhere else to get the effects back.

 

I totally understand when design choices must be made by a dev team and I'm not able to evaluate potential problems, but wouldn't be possible to switch from one behavior to the other when you deselect the pixel layer ?

May be there's other way to achieve that though.

 

PS. By the way, didn't have the occasion yet but thanks a lot for the 1.6 versions ! :-)

 

[jenkm]

There are two ways to work around this limitation:

1. just place all adjustments layers into an additional group
2. add fill layer which does not change the image (white in Darken mode)

[lepr]

.