Before anything else really... RAW decoding algorithms.

[Doug B]

To preface, I should state that I use an Fuji XT-1 and XT-2. Also still have but barely use my D300. 





I didn’t start this topic with the intention of picking a fight. I absolutely adore Affinity Photo on my Mac and it has completely taken over PS duties for me. That said, what it has NOT done on the Mac, and I suspect even less so in the case with the iOS version, is take over as my RAW processor. And there's a very good reason for this. The RAW decoding and demosaicing algorithms have a long way to go where RAW processing is concerned. I use AP mainly for things like cloning, skin retouching and a few other things as such. It is excellent for such things, and saves a lot of time compared to messing about in LR or other apps. 


 

I stopped using Lightroom about a year or so ago, and at times, am sorry to have done so. I’ve had to though, because the way it renders X-Trans files is quite poor, when compared to other applications on the Mac. I moved over to Capture One Pro 9 and now have 10. It's an excellent piece of software, and I thought I had settled on it, but recently, On1 has released new software that will likely rival Capture One Pro, and in not that long a period of time. 


 

Every piece of software has its strengths and weaknesses, and Capture One's biggest weakness/flaw is in how it handles its self as a DAM. The new ON1 Photo RAW is great in that sense, but currently, has issues with file exporting... (Which is being fixed and patched by next week) So I'm not ditching Capture One. Adobe's ACR is great for most users, and is what LR uses inside of its GUI, which again, is great for most, but poor for Fuji users. 


 

If Affinity was able to handle RAW processing like On1 or Capture One, it would be the ultimate all-in-one photo editor, IMO. But it doesn't, and so.. It is not. Here's where the problem lies for the mobile version:


If the intention is to begin editing while on the go, such as at an event/shoot etc, you absolutely MUST have Affinity demosaic and process the RAW file, in order that it sync's up to your desktop version of Affinity Photo *which I don't even think is a feature yet*. The problem with this is that once the file has been made a PSD/TIFF or afphoto, you can no longer get back what was in the RAW file. That's just how it goes. The changes are burned in, with not much more leverage than a jpg file at that point. 


 

So then, when I look at how AP handles things like highlight and shadow recovery, contrast and micro contrast and see how utterly terrible they are (and they really are), then there is zero chance that I would ever use the mobile version to do things like skin retouching or cloning before adjusting the RAW values. I can say the same thing for On1 Photo RAW though. When comparing the 3 apps, Capture One comes out well above the rest, without question.

 

Where Affinity Photo WILL work, is obviously after the color correction, sharpening, levels using another app like Capture One etc.. But this really leaves a very large gap in the RAW workflow on the iPad. Also, I’m speaking in terms of what-if’s, since there is no such thing as desktop and mobile sync without iCloud Drive. The issue I have with this, is that iCloud Drive takes up space on ones computer, and there is no dropbox-esque option, where you can access iCloud Drive solely via the web. Anyway, I don’t necessarily regret getting AP for the iPad, but after having thought things through, more than when I got excited to hear it was available and at the $20 price.. I think it’s safe for me to say that it won’t get much use in its current iteration.

 

I’m curious to know if others have thought about this as well, and what conclusions have been drawn as such.

 

I have attached 6 files. 3 are unedited. The other three have highlight recovery and negative exposure values added. I picked this photo specifically, because it was a misfire *finger twitched* and the settings cause the highlights to blow and exposure was hot. You can clearly see how well the three apps handle the amount of highlight recovery, and then highlight recovery with -exposure added to help. Capture One Pro is clearly, without challenge, the winner.

 

Doug


[sw-fuzzy]

I am fully on your side and claimed the same in a critical comment. 

 

Read this statement which shows that our desires will never be fulfilled:

 

https://forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php?/topic/42040-affinity-ipad-version-is-not-worth-the-money/?p=210361

 

 

[Krist]

I bought it today on impulse, since the 30% sale ends tomorrow. (I have not received the new iPad yet) I did not realize that raw development is destructive. Good thing is that it is like pocket change compared to others. I hope it is a lot better than Snapseed which is free.

[verysame]

I am fully on your side and claimed the same in a critical comment. 

 

Read this statement which shows that our desires will never be fulfilled:

 

https://forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php?/topic/42040-affinity-ipad-version-is-not-worth-the-money/?p=210361

 

To precise, though, that thread is related to the iPad version.

[Michelangelo_]

Before anything else really...

 

 

Probably your RAW is not the most used. Probably there are many other equally important requests. This is a brand new software. Have you tried to develop other RAWs? Of other cameras?

 

If you need to work faster on the go your can use AP in a MacBook Air or ( better) in a survace. 

[donka]

I for one have been very happy with the results I can get from my Nikon RAW files. I understand this is first and foremost a photo editor with the ability to develop RAW files and that works for me. I can also understand why it perhaps doesn't work for others but that is where a proper DAM app with RAW support may work better.

[Michelangelo_]

I for one have been very happy with the results I can get from my Nikon RAW files. I understand this is first and foremost a photo editor with the ability to develop RAW files and that works for me. I can also understand why it perhaps doesn't work for others but that is where a proper DAM app with RAW support may work better.

 

+1

 

this is the misunderstanding of many. AP ios is an advanced (huge)  image editor with a plus to import RAW, that's all.

Each brand comes with a different RAW and the "issue" depends 90% of cases by the manufactured.

 

Several users don't understand the difference between DAM software and AP. The same difference between Lightroom and Photoshop.

[Doug B]

I am fully on your side and claimed the same in a critical comment. 

 

Read this statement which shows that our desires will never be fulfilled:

 

https://forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php?/topic/42040-affinity-ipad-version-is-not-worth-the-money/?p=210361

 

I don't agree on the "never" part. With mobile processors getting as powerful as they are, the ability is pretty much there. It has more to do with optimizations as well as business moves. Nobody wants to cannibalize one of their products to make room for a lesser priced one that does the job just as well. But the think that companies like Serif are going to realize at some point, is that people will pay as much for an iOS app as they will a desktop app, so long as the results are fairly equal. 

To precise, though, that thread is related to the iPad version.

So it this one.

 

 

Probably your RAW is not the most used. Probably there are many other equally important requests. This is a brand new software. Have you tried to develop other RAWs? Of other cameras?

 

If you need to work faster on the go your can use AP in a MacBook Air or ( better) in a survace. 

 

You are absolutely correct. Fuji cameras do not saturate the market as much as Canikon camera's do... But then again, the same thing can be said about Sony, and they seem to garner a lot of support. And most camera sensors are made by Sony. I own a Nikon D300 *my baby* and so, I will absolutely test out some NEF's. Good observation though, on your part. And yes, I've also come to the conclusion that getting a Macbook varietal, would be better suited to a mobile workflow. Which, I find most unfortunate. To have the ability to carry around something as powerful as a Macbook, but with the form factor and weight of an iPad is a dream...  I've thought about the Surface line as well, I just cannot stand Windows. But, I'm not closed to the idea, to be honest.

 

I for one have been very happy with the results I can get from my Nikon RAW files. I understand this is first and foremost a photo editor with the ability to develop RAW files and that works for me. I can also understand why it perhaps doesn't work for others but that is where a proper DAM app with RAW support may work better.

At this point in time, your conclusion is logical.

 

 

+1

 

this is the misunderstanding of many. AP ios is an advanced (huge)  image editor with a plus to import RAW, that's all.

Each brand comes with a different RAW and the "issue" depends 90% of cases by the manufactured.

 

Several users don't understand the difference between DAM software and AP. The same difference between Lightroom and Photoshop.

 

I don't think it's a misunderstanding *at least not on my part* as much as it is a glimmer of hope that the current workflow will change in the near-ish future. I don't think that it would be impossible for an app such as AP to take on attributes of a non-destructive photo editor or smart editor. I think it's also a bit condescending to say that people don't know what the difference is between a DAM and a pixel editor. The only thing that a DAM offers up over a pixel editor, for the most part, is a way to manage/catalog files, and of course, non-destructive editing. But I don't think that the latter has to be synonymous with the definition of a DAM.  I also think that it wouldn't take much for Serif to cook up a separate app that would act as a DAM, sort of something like Photo Mechanic, that can round-trip photos non destructively between it and AP.

 

Sure, it would take lots of time and effort, but... That's what money is for. We would all pay well for such a thing. 

 

I just find it very counter-productive to have such a powerful app as AP for iOS, while it is so very limited. And while I don't disagree that there are a lot of other features the devs can work on fixing/making better/adding, I don't think that my request is one that should be looked over or ignored. It should at least be a discussion for the future. If not, I see AP for the iPad as just another bloated piece of software that can be pushed in among the myriad ranks of iOS photo editors. Have you seen Polar lately? 

 

Best,

Doug

[Michelangelo_]

 Polar lately? 

 

Best,

Doug

 

no :)

Everything you have written makes sense to me as well, the problem is the device memory and limits imposed by apple (which are changing, fortunately).

Any further improvement of raw management raises the minimum requirements of the device.

Maybe we have to wait 2 to 3 years, with 80% of market made with  ipad with 4 or 8gb (or more) of memory

[Doug B]

Yes. RAM could indeed be a limiting factor, unless the Serif team are THAT GOOD with optimizations! I won't say they aren't, and just hope they have as much confidence in themselves as I have for them. lol.

[verysame]

So it this one.

 

When I replied I thought this thread was in the general feature requests.

If there only was an option to hide all iPad's related threads I would turn it on.

[Michelangelo_]

Yes. RAM could indeed be a limiting factor, unless the Serif team are THAT GOOD with optimizations! I won't say they aren't, and just hope they have as much confidence in themselves as I have for them. lol.

 

I pinned this one. let's see what affinity will do with the memory management ( based to 2gb ram, the current standard)  for managing groups of RAW and editing in CMYK. They made a miracle with AP IOS but maybe it's not enough.

[Doug B]

I pinned this one. let's see what affinity will do with the memory management ( based to 2gb ram, the current standard) for managing groups of RAW and editing in CMYK. They made a miracle with AP IOS but maybe it's not enough.

Ya know what's crazy? The new OnePlus 5 phone has an option for 8 gigs of RAM! There's literally no excuse for a company to put a paltry 2 gigs of RAM into a product, and then put the word "Pro" in its name.

[Michelangelo_]

Ya know what's crazy? The new OnePlus 5 phone has an option for 8 gigs of RAM! There's literally no excuse for a company to put a paltry 2 gigs of RAM into a product, and then put the word "Pro" in its name.

Welcome to apple, they reinvent everyting, also the lies, PRO is a stupid name but it works for the sales.  In any case the problem between apple tablets and th rest of the world is only one, the OS quality.  

[donka]

Yes, unfortunately, while iOS runs great on 2GB RAM never mind 4GB, you need to look beyond the OS to specific apps that may benefit from the extra RAM. 16GB is common place on the desktop and 'Pro' users would probably be looking at 32GB in a lot of cases. If you want the iPad to deliver a desktop experience then I think more RAM would certainly be a benefit for certainly applications.

 

Having said that, it is what it is and the iPad still offers a great experience for most users and you're kidding yourself if you think Affinity Photo is anything other than an excellent piece of software on the iPad. There may be bugs given it is a newly released application and it may not suit everyone but this is a seriously powerful application in it's own right and one of the main reasons I bought both new Pros.

[Daphen]

I bought it today on impulse, since the 30% sale ends tomorrow. (I have not received the new iPad yet) I did not realize that raw development is destructive. Good thing is that it is like pocket change compared to others. I hope it is a lot better than Snapseed which is free.

Snapseed doesn't support RAW from X-trans sensors though.