Saving jpg Ctrl + S quality is 100? How to setup?

[Max N]

Before uploading to the stock, I retouch some photos in the AP. The source files weigh 3-5 MB, after pressing the combination Ctrl + S, the files begin to weigh 10-12 megabytes. How do I change the default save settings? So far I've found only export, but it's not very convenient.
If there is no such possibility, then the topic can be sent to the request for functions.

[Max N]

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[Max N]

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[R C-R]

You cannot change how Affinity Photo (or Affinity Designer) saves a file in the native Affinity format that both apps use. That format is proprietary, & may include such things as pre-rendered mipmaps, snapshots, symbols, & other data & metadata the apps require to support various functions.

[Max N]

47 minutes ago, R C-R said:

You cannot change how Affinity Photo (or Affinity Designer) saves a file in the native Affinity format that both apps use. That format is proprietary, & may include such things as pre-rendered mipmaps, snapshots, symbols, & other data & metadata the apps require to support various functions.

I'm talking about saving an open Jpeg file after editing in Jpeg via Ctrl + S. The saving takes place without a dialog box and in 100% quality.

 

[R C-R]

14 minutes ago, Max N said:

I'm talking about saving an open Jpeg file after editing in Jpeg via Ctrl + S. The saving takes place without a dialog box and in 100% quality.

As far as I know, the default quality for re-saving an opened JPEG file is always 100% & there is no way to change this. That is probably because anything less would slowly degrade the file each time it was saved, or require an 'are you sure' warning before saving advising users of that.

[toltec]

If you go File > Export you get this panel.

 

 

 

You can set what you want. It might not be so convenient, but it has all the settings.

[Fixx]

It would be nice if JPEG-save compression setting default could be adjusted but usually 100% is small enough.

[R C-R]

6 minutes ago, Fixx said:

It would be nice if JPEG-save compression setting default could be adjusted but usually 100% is small enough.

But do you see what I mean about a default of <100% without some 'are you sure' type warning would make it all too easy to by accident significantly degrade the quality of the JPEG file each time the save command was used?

[Max N]

1 hour ago, toltec said:

If you go File > Export you get this panel.

 

 

 

You can set what you want. It might not be so convenient, but it has all the settings.

And I do. But when you do 100+ photos per day, It's 300 extra actions (mouse clicks). I would like to be able to adjust the quality by default, which could be synchronized by pressing Ctrl + S, without unnecessary dialog boxes.

[carl123]

@ RC-R

43 minutes ago, R C-R said:

But do you see what I mean about a default of <100% without some 'are you sure' type warning would make it all too easy to by accident significantly degrade the quality of the JPEG file each time the save command was used?

Try this...

Open any image

Export image at 10% JPG quality setting (call it image1.jpg)

Open image1.jpg - Export image at 10% quality setting (call it image2.jpg)

Compare image1.jpg and image2.jpg, filesizes, picture quality, etc.

[Max N]

41 minutes ago, R C-R said:

But do you see what I mean about a default of <100% without some 'are you sure' type warning would make it all too easy to by accident significantly degrade the quality of the JPEG file each time the save command was used?

It would be desirable that each user himself could decide which settings suited him.
I process photos for drains, and at 100% quality their size (in megabytes) is accustomed to allowable. Preparing pictures for the web, 100% is also unacceptable. In one case, 85% was enough, in another and 70% would be good.

[R C-R]

1 hour ago, carl123 said:

@ RC-R

Try this...

Open any image

Export image at 10% JPG quality setting (call it image1.jpg)

Open image1.jpg - Export image at 10% quality setting (call it image2.jpg)

Compare image1.jpg and image2.jpg, filesizes, picture quality, etc.

I don't think you see what I mean:

 

Consider opening an existing JPEG file in AP, one previously saved at a high quality setting that preserves its finer details. Do some edits, anything that doesn't include adding features (like transparency or multiple layers) the JPEG format does not support. If the default quality setting was 10% & the user saved the file with CMD+S (Mac) or CTRL+S (Windows), the existing high quality JPEG file would immediately be overwritten with with low quality version, destroying forever the fine details in the high quality original.

 

From then on it doesn't matter much if the low quality JPEG file is opened & re-saved at 10% (or whatever) quality -- the file's remaining image data has already been compressed about as much as it can be so there will be very little if any change in file size or quality after that. But there is no way to get the discarded image data back unless the user has a backup copy of the original stored somewhere else.

 

2 hours ago, Max N said:

I process photos for drains, and at 100% quality their size (in megabytes) is accustomed to allowable. Preparing pictures for the web, 100% is also unacceptable. In one case, 85% was enough, in another and 70% would be good.

Which is why the app provides export options -- different photos & different uses require different quality & resampling methods. There is no 'one size fits all' default setting (for either quality or resampling) that will work well for everything.

 

Plus, other techniques that optimize file size vs. quality may be used prior to exporting, for example those mentioned in the Affinity Photo - Export Compression Efficiency video tutorial, making a single default covering all the export options even less likely to produce pro quality results.

[carl123]

@RC-R

You implied (twice) that the jpg quality would degrade each time the save command was used

It only "degrades" the first time.

So if you were happy with an 85% quality jpg then subsequent saving at that quality would not degrade the jpg any further

Obviously saving at 85% means you can never get back the original 100% image but that's not the point I was trying to highlight 

[Max N]

28 minutes ago, R C-R said:

Which is why the app provides export options -- different photos & different uses require different quality & resampling methods. There is no 'one size fits all' default setting (for either quality or resampling) that will work well for everything.

 

Plus, other techniques that optimize file size vs. quality may be used prior to exporting, for example those mentioned in the Affinity Photo - Export Compression Efficiency video tutorial, making a single default covering all the export options even less likely to produce pro quality results.

I open the file 3 MB quality 85% - suitable for drain.
Editing.
I press Ctrl + S
The file is 13 MB. Unsuitable for drainage.
We have to press the export, choose quality, click ok, answer the request to re-record the file.
And it could all be solved with a single click of a button. Professional software should shorten processing time and optimize the process. The more fitch that can simplify the life of steeper software.

[lepr]

.

 

[R C-R]

1 hour ago, carl123 said:

So if you were happy with an 85% quality jpg then subsequent saving at that quality would not degrade the jpg any further 

Even at 85% JPEG compression that may not be true, depending on the edits you make between saves. Every save recompresses the file, based on the current state of all its pixels, so for example if you paint with a colored brush, blur or sharpen, or apply various adjustments to all or part of the image, further non-recoverable losses are a real possibility.

[R C-R]

2 hours ago, Max N said:

We have to press the export, choose quality, click ok, answer the request to re-record the file.

Are you aware that the export settings are "sticky" for as long as the app is open? So for example, if you set say 85% quality & bicubic resampling in the JPEG export dialog, it will retain those settings until you quit the app or change them. Only after quitting & relaunching the app do the export settings revert to the defaults.

 

You can also create export presets in the Export Persona, which will appear on the Preset dropdown in the Photo Persona File > Export dialog, so you can have several different ones you can access quickly, named however you want, instead of being limited to a single default.

[- S -]

6 hours ago, carl123 said:

Try this...

Open any image

Export image at 10% JPG quality setting (call it image1.jpg)

Open image1.jpg - Export image at 10% quality setting (call it image2.jpg)

Compare image1.jpg and image2.jpg, filesizes, picture quality, etc.

I have just tried this experiment and the image quality does degrade and the artifacts get worse with each save.  Here is the first save compared to the fifth save.

 

However it's not a particularly good experiment as it's resaving/compressing the exact same pixels each time.  In a real life scenario the image is likely being edited/modified before saving each time, therefore the pixels are changing rather than remaining static.  Therefore I carried out the same test but this time with the image being flipped horizontal each time so that the pixels aren't exactly the same each time the image is saved.  Here is the first save compared to the fifth save, where you can see the image degrades and the artifacts get worse with each save.

 

I can however see both sides.  A user may want to open a JPEG, make a quick change, then resave it.  So to them the file size increasing is an inconvenience.  However, I agree with Affinity's logic to save it at 100% in order to preserve image quality, because JPEG should never be a working file format.  There should really be two versions of the file, the working file format (AFPHOTO, PSD, TIFF) and the export format, because you never know when you will need to go back and edit it again (and again, and again, as you view it later with new eyes or realise you missed something).

 

 

[R C-R]

22 minutes ago, Sima said:

I can however see both sides.  A user may want to open a JPEG, make a quick change, then resave it.  So to them the file size increasing is an inconvenience.  However, I agree with Affinity's logic to save it at 100% in order to preserve image quality, because JPEG should never be a working file format.  There should really be two versions of the file, the working file format (AFPHOTO, PSD, TIFF) and the export format, because you never know when you will need to go back and edit it again (and again, and again as you view it later with new eyes or realise you missed something).

 

How inconvenient (if that is even the right word) would it be to discover after saving your only copy of a JPEG that it is now so full of artifacts that it is unusable for most purposes? As you say, you never know when you might need to reedit a high quality version at some later time.

 

Personally, my philosophy is that disk space is cheap & the time it takes open an Affinity native file format document & export it is much less than it would take to try to reconstruct a useable JPEG file from one that I might accidentally save at too low a quality factor and/or with an inferior resampling method. Consequently, I almost always save JPEGs in the Affinity format, maintain backups of those files like I do with everything else, & only export to JPEG when & if I have a reason to do that.

 

I think the old IT adage that there are only two kinds of users, those that have lost data & those that will, applies here. Or, as a software engineer I know put it, you don't own any data until it is stored in at least two independent locations. I believe the Affinity developers think the same way & have done everything they can reasonably be expected to do to build apps that make it hard for users to lose data, whether they like it or not.

 

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but I would not want it any other way.

[- S -]

46 minutes ago, R C-R said:

... I think the old IT adage that there are only two kinds of users, those that have lost data & those that will, applies here. Or, as a software engineer I know put it, you don't own any data until it is stored in at least two independent locations.

And even then data is subject to Schrödinger's backup theory - "The condition of any backup is unknown until a restore is attempted.  Until that time the data can be thought of as simultaneously both alive and dead".  

[R C-R]

26 minutes ago, Sima said:

And even then data is subject to Schrödinger's backup theory - "The condition of any backup is unknown until a restore is attempted.  Until that time the data can be thought of as simultaneously both alive and dead".  

  

[Fixx]

14 hours ago, R C-R said:

Consider opening an existing JPEG file in AP, one previously saved at a high quality setting that preserves its finer details. Do some edits, anything that doesn't include adding features (like transparency or multiple layers) the JPEG format does not support. If the default quality setting was 10% & the user saved the file with CMD+S (Mac) or CTRL+S (Windows), the existing high quality JPEG file would immediately be overwritten with with low quality version, destroying forever the fine details in the high quality original.

 

I assume that if user has set his/her app to behave that way, that is exactly that he/she wants.

[Faccia]

I agree with Max M, it would be useful to be able to change the preference for saving a JPG that was opened and quickly edited (eg. crop) at a level below 100%. I also understand that the default is set to 100% but it would be great to be able to modify that. I also understand that JPG files are not meant to be working files but sometimes its all you have to work with.

In other words, it would be great to be able to open a JPG, do a quick crop, and resave the file in the new size without having the size of the file double. I know that one can export the file and then change the quality of the JPG there but like Max M mentioned, its more steps and time consuming,