Selection to black mask

[Laverda3c]

When I make a selection on a pixel layer then hold the option key, click on mask to create a black mask the selection is ignored and I get a totally black mask. The only way I can get around this is to make a regular mask from the selection, then invert it. I'm using versions 1.5.2 and the 1.6 beta. Both versions ignore selections when I want to directly apply a black mask. Is this normal? I couldn't find any info on this exact issue in the forums.

[DavidMac]

As far as I know this is currently normal. It's a pity. I have put in a feature request for this as it's entirely logical and consistent and I cannot believe it would be hard to code. I suggest you do the same. I would imagine the more people request something, particularly something so basic, the more likely it is to get implemented. 

[toltec]

When I make a selection on a pixel layer then hold the option key, click on mask to create a black mask the selection is ignored and I get a totally black mask. The only way I can get around this is to make a regular mask from the selection, then invert it. I'm using versions 1.5.2 and the 1.6 beta. Both versions ignore selections when I want to directly apply a black mask. Is this normal? I couldn't find any info on this exact issue in the forums.

 

I'm not sure what you want to do.

 

If you make a selection and click on the little mask icon you get a mask masking out the bit outside your selection.. You can also go to Layer, New Mask

 

If you invert the selection first (Ctrl I) or click on the "invert mask" icon you get a mask masking out the selection.

 

Thats just one click or maybe two if you want the "inverted" area.

 

Another method is to create the mask, then go Layer, invert Layer, to invert the mask although you will have to de-select first.

 

You can then edit the mask using either black or white brushes 

 

You will have to drag the mask onto the image layer you want to mask to make the mask a child or it masks out every layer below too (which can be confusing) but the mask is fully editable at any time and you can even turn it back into a selection again by Ctrll/Cmdn clicking on the little mask icon on the mask layer. As you paint Affinity even gives you a preview of what the brush will do.

 

That seems fast, easy and very flexible. No ?

[DavidMac]

I'm not sure what you want to do.

 

If you make a selection and click on the little mask icon you get a mask masking out the bit outside your selection.. You can also go to Layer, New Mask

 

If you invert the selection first (Ctrl I) or click on the "invert mask" icon you get a mask masking out the selection.

 

Thats just one click or maybe two if you want the "inverted" area.

 

Another method is to create the mask, then go Layer, invert Layer, to invert the mask although you will have to de-select first.

 

You can then edit the mask using either black or white brushes 

 

You will have to drag the mask onto the image layer you want to mask to make the mask a child or it masks out every layer below too (which can be confusing) but the mask is fully editable at any time and you can even turn it back into a selection again by Ctrll/Cmdn clicking on the little mask icon on the mask layer. As you paint Affinity even gives you a preview of what the brush will do.

 

That seems fast, easy and very flexible. No ?

Not as fast and easy as a simple Alt Click on the Mask button!

 

It's a tiny little thing but, added to all the other tiny little things in Affinity that need two or three actions where one would do, it does get a bit niggling.  ;)

[toltec]

Not as fast and easy as a simple Alt Click on the Mask button!

 

It's a tiny little thing but, added to all the other tiny little things in Affinity that need two or three actions where one would do, it does get a bit niggling.  ;)

 

Well, Alt + click is two clicks, sort of. It's all very well using Alt but if you have a graphics tablet in front of you, you have to reach for the Alt. I would rather just click twice. A personal thing.

 

Of course, you don't really need a black mask? Simply press Q. You can set that to show as black on white if you want.

 

However, I understand the need for different approaches to "enhance" workflow. If I'm using mainly the keyboard I like shortcuts and have assigned several. Macros too. Maybe you could set up a macro?

 

My main niggle is (or was) lack of a Duplicate Layer button in the layers menu. When I am setting up a complex document, I set layers, fill layers, groups etc, I then have to stop and use the keyboard or menus. It just stops my focus (I lose concentration very easily at my age ;) ) and interrupts workflow.

[DavidMac]

Yes we all have our little preferences. I would like to be able to duplicate by simply Alt dragging a layer directly to it's destination in the stack. I dislike keyboard shortcuts as I use a large slate and the keyboard gets in the way. It also often needs two hands which interrupts my flow with the pen. Being no longer in the first flush of youth I also have difficulty remembering them all! To get round this I use a 24 key gamers keypad which sits permanently under my left hand just to the left of the slate. It has a palm rest which helps locate the hand relative to the keys. It also has a thumb joystick which is handy for small precise movements. It is completely programmable with either single keystrokes or macros. I have all the modifiers plus Esc and Enter and del on it plus shortcuts to all my most frequent operations. It is also application aware and will switch its programming according to which app is currently foreground. This means that, although the actual shortcuts are different, I can have both Photoshop and AP respond to exactly the same key in the same manner. 

Bizarre ....... but it works ......  ;)

[toltec]

Actually, thats a good idea. I might steal it  ;)

[DavidMac]

There's lots of choices and ways of approaching it. I started by adapting an ordinary numeric keypad using a third party software that can recognise and reprogram just about any input device. I set it up for Sketchup, PS and AP. Then it started to malfunction with a hardware problem and needed to be replaced and I decided to go for the much bigger and uglier, but more flexible, gaming pad. 

[toltec]

I did lots of painstaking research (on Ebay) and they are about £36 (or 41 euros).

 

It would actually be VERY useful for graphic tablet users because tablets tend to dominate the desk in front of the monitor and the little keys are next to useless for adult humans unless they have the dexterity of a concert pianist. That would certainly make life a lot easier.

 

I'm so glad I thought of it ;)

[DavidMac]

 

 

I'm so glad I thought of it ;)

Very smart of you!

 

Remember you will need to also buy a good keyboard mapper to re-program it.

[Alfred]

... unless they have the dexterity of a concert pianist.

 

I thought you were a pianist! :P

 

[DavidMac]

I thought you were a pianist!  :P

 

:lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

[toltec]

:lol:  :lol:  :lol:

 

In my youth, dear boy.

[Laverda3c]

Thanks for the replies, I'll go ahead and submit this as a future request.

[R C-R]

As I understand it, the original request was to create a selection & mask it (the selection) out. Currently, that requires the extra step of inverting the selection before clicking the mask button. If you don't want to go to a menu or use a keyboard shortcut for that, in Affinity Photo there is a button you can use instead. It is hiding in the Channels panel -- it is the button farthest to the right in the "Pixel Selection" line item.

 

This makes the entire select-invert-mask operation a one-handed process. If you arrange the Studio panels with the Layer & Channels ones near each other & appropriately sized, you don't even have to move the pointer very far to click the two buttons in quick succession.  :)

[DavidMac]

Everyone is suggesting one click, two click, one handed, two handed, solutions, but everyone seems to be ignoring the very simple logic of Laverda2c's original request - which I agree with entirely. Yes of course there are are a dozen different ways of achieving what he wants ..... but that's not the point. He's asking why doesn't it work the way any sensible individual would expect it to work?

 

This subject has been covered before in other posts and there seems to be a remarkable reluctance on the part of experienced AP users to accept a very simple little anomaly.

 

Clicking the mask icon in the layers palette with no selection present produces a 'reveal all' mask.

 

Alt clicking the mask icon in the layers palette with no selection present  produces a 'hide all' mask.

 

Clicking the mask icon in the layers palette with a selection present produces a 'reveal selection' mask.

 

Alt clicking the mask icon in the layers palette with a selection present produces a 'hide selection' mask .......  except it doesn't - it ignores the selection entirely! 

 

This is inconsistent, illogical and unexpected. It begs not a one click or two click alternative - it begs the question "Why?".

 

I am not trying to criticise AP. I am not ignoring all your helpful alternatives. I am simply saying that it is utterly logical and simple and consistent to expect Alt clicking the mask icon with a selection present to produce a hide selection mask. This is what a newbie unused to AP's idiosyncrasies expected because it is so absolutely logical and "expectable". He's right - it should work that way!  

So please, can anyone give me good reason why this shouldn't be implemented when it makes such perfect sense? Let's not just accept alternatives and work arounds ...... let's quite simply ask to have it work in the simplest, most logical, most instinctive and simplest way possible.

Why not?  :)

[R C-R]

Everyone is suggesting one click, two click, one handed, two handed, solutions, but everyone seems to be ignoring the very simple logic of Laverda2c's original request - which I agree with entirely. Yes of course there are are a dozen different ways of achieving what he wants ..... but that's not the point. He's asking why doesn't it work the way any sensible individual would expect it to work?

I think it might be because not every sensible individual expects it to work like that.  ;)

[DavidMac]

I think it might be because not every sensible individual expects it to work like that.  ;)

What? You mean sensible individuals don't expect it to work sensibly? Well, under the circumstances, that might just be se sensible!  ;)

[R C-R]

I think it is because not every sensible individual thinks the same things are sensible.  :lol:

 

Among other things, this explains the vast differences in fashion choices, voting patterns, spousal selection, theological & philosophical belief systems, & in a more on topic sense, "must have" tool lists, preferred keyboard shortcuts, button choices, & much more.

[DavidMac]

Yes of course - but the 'sensible' change to AP I am suggesting is as simple as hit the "A" key you get a lower case "a", shift hit the A key you get upper case "A". Not many people oppose this on the basis of personal preference because it makes sense. 

 

To my mind "Click the Mask button you get a reveal selection mask" and "Alt click the mask button you get a hide selection mask" has exactly the same simplicity. If people want to contest this on the basis of personal preference then they are far too complicated for my simple mind ......  :rolleyes:

[toltec]

 

To my mind "Click the Mask button you get a reveal selection mask" and "Alt click the mask button you get a hide selection mask" has exactly the same simplicity. If people want to contest this on the basis of personal preference then they are far too complicated for my simple mind ......  :rolleyes:

 

Well, for what it's worth I agree that it's a bit of an amonoly anomile annomoly screw up.

[R C-R]

Yes of course - but the 'sensible' change to AP I am suggesting is as simple as hit the "A" key you get a lower case "a", shift hit the A key you get upper case "A". Not many people oppose this on the basis of personal preference because it makes sense.

That is an interesting example because, as I am sure you know, the Shift key & its function to 'shift' to upper case letters originated with the typewriter. That makes it entirely "sensible" to people who have some familiarity with its origins, but otherwise it is just a convention one has to learn.

 

That is indeed a very logical convention ... but only for languages that have an alphabet with capital & lower case letters. Even for that, the logic gets a bit obscure for non-alphabetic characters (number keys, punctuation marks, etc.) & more obscure still for fonts like Dingbats that may include no alphabetic characters at all.

 

So even that example really isn't as simple as it seems.

 

As for masking, the app provides a button & a menu item which can create a new mask from a selection, one that reveals the selection & completely hides everything outside of it. It also provides a menu item to create a new "empty" mask layer, which hides everything regardless of any selection. For the button, the "alternate" behavior is the same as the empty mask layer menu item -- it ignores the selection & masks everything it is applied to.

 

It is not the "alternate" button behavior you prefer, but yours is not the only possible alternate behavior, nor is it the only "simple" one. That is in fact a personal preference, no more or less logical than the current behavior.

 

I am not saying yours is not a useful behavior. I think it is too. But since the alt/option key already has a menu-related function for the button, perhaps a better choice would be the Shift or another modifier key?

[DavidMac]

That is an interesting example because, as I am sure you know, the Shift key & its function to 'shift' to upper case letters originated with the typewriter. That makes it entirely "sensible" to people who have some familiarity with its origins, but otherwise it is just a convention one has to learn.

 

That is indeed a very logical convention ... but only for languages that have an alphabet with capital & lower case letters. Even for that, the logic gets a bit obscure for non-alphabetic characters (number keys, punctuation marks, etc.) & more obscure still for fonts like Dingbats that may include no alphabetic characters at all.

 

So even that example really isn't as simple as it seems.

 

As for masking, the app provides a button & a menu item which can create a new mask from a selection, one that reveals the selection & completely hides everything outside of it. It also provides a menu item to create a new "empty" mask layer, which hides everything regardless of any selection. For the button, the "alternate" behavior is the same as the empty mask layer menu item -- it ignores the selection & masks everything it is applied to.

 

It is not the "alternate" button behavior you prefer, but yours is not the only possible alternate behavior, nor is it the only "simple" one. That is in fact a personal preference, no more or less logical than the current behavior.

 

I am not saying yours is not a useful behavior. I think it is too. But since the alt/option key already has a menu-related function for the button, perhaps a better choice would be the Shift or another modifier key?

Wow! Now that is very erudite and well put ...............

 

The original poster asked a simple question and we've all managed a superb job of mudddying waters (along with a quick slightly off topic spin through gaming pads) ............ poor blokes head must be spinning.

 

Aren't forums wonderful? :) :)