Clipping adjustment layers

[jphthierry]

Hi all,

 

I am used to clip adjustment layers in Photoshop. What I mean by that is putting an adjustment layer in the stack, painting a mask on this adjustment layer and then adding another one clipped to it. I haven't found a way to do that in Affinity. Nesting adjustment layers doesn't work: the nested layer has no effect.

 

Is there an "Affinity" way to do the same thing?

 

Thanks for your help

[MEB]

Hi jphthierry,

Welcome to Affinity Forums :)

Not sure if this is what you are looking for but check the sample file attached. I've added an adjustment to the image layer and painted its built-in mask to limit the black and white adjustment to the earth planet only, then clipped another second independent mask to the main layer to limit the adjustment and the image layer to the painted area/circle i have created on this mask.

 

sample_file.afphoto

[jphthierry]

Back to Affinity after a while now that 1.7 is out. Your example does only partially answer my question. Imagine an image in which I want to apply different adjustments to the sky and the rest of the image. What I tend to to in PS is:

• create a selection for the sky
• create a first adjustment layer; its mask is the sky selection
• create as many adjustments layers as I want for the sky, clipping them to the first one

I can do the same for the rest of the image. I only have to create the mask for the sky once. I can't figure out a way to do the same thing in Affinity Photo. Either I have to apply the same mask to all adjustment layers or I have to duplicate the initial pixel layer to have 2 distinct masks. 

Regards

[GDPR-365024]

Hi @jphthierry

Check out @dmstraker  YouTube tuts—in particular both the channels and masks playlists.

Dave's coverage is quite thorough so hopefully you'll find the answers there.

Cheers

 

[jphthierry]

Thanks @PedroOfOz for pointing out this channel. There is a lot of information in there. That being said, it looks like he is copying the mask over and over and over. I ended up doing the same thing but finding it cumbersome (probably because I am used to either clipping or creating a group of adjustments with a mask on the group with photoshop). 

[GDPR-365024]

After creating a selection I routinely, in the Channels panel, right click 'Pixel Selection' > Create Spare Channel. Deselect the selection (no longer needed) then right click the created spare channel > Rename (to something appropriate).

That mask is then available for all Adjustment/Live Filter layers. No need to copy the mask(s).

I open an adjustment layer, for example Curves, right click the saved spare channel > Load To Curves Adjustment Alpha. As every adjustment layer has a built in mask it's just a matter of painting onto that layer to reduce/remove the applied adjustment where appropriate.

At the beginning of every new image edit as part of my workflow I make most if not all of the selections I'll require for the edit then save them as spare channels.

[jphthierry]

My engineer's brain likes to factorize whenever possible rather than copy/paste  Just need to get used to a different way of doing things. Thanks for the tips!

[eobet]

Interesting. This feels like a cumbersome shortcoming in Affinity Photo.

Ideally, I think it would look like this (quick mock-up):

(Just for reference, in Photoshop, it looks like this:)

It's a bit weird that this doesn't exist since multiple masks per layer in Affinity works so much better than it does in Photoshop...

 

EDIT: Also, the workaround is nice and all, but I can tell you that it's a showstopper for the graphics guys at work. They wouldn't tolerate that workaround.

[jphthierry]

Agree. The beauty in Photoshop is that you don’t even need a pixel layer as a base for clipping. Not only is it saving time, but it also give a lot of flexibility having a parent mask and using the child ones to tweak further.

Not a show stopper for me as I am not time constrained but definitely a welcome feature going forward  

 

[eobet]

Ok, stop the presses, I just saw this video:

First off, funny that they mention a “bug” which is maybe what the OP was actually referring to, but then in the end they reveal the magic trick I didn’t know about:

All adjustment layers in Affinity are also masks!

So, forget my silly mock-up above (although that would be added functionality), turns out what I wanted is already in Affinity Photo, and again, one step simpler than in Photoshop! Hats off to the developers. 

[Alfred]

11 minutes ago, eobet said:

... in the end they reveal the magic trick I didn’t know about:

 All adjustment layers in Affinity are also masks!

As Miguel wrote in his post two years ago (my emphasis):

On 5/23/2017 at 3:14 PM, MEB said:

I've added an adjustment to the image layer and painted its built-in mask to limit the black and white adjustment

 

[jphthierry]

It still doesn't match PS. It's playing with a pixel layer all the time. The screenshot below might be clearer. What I am looking for is a way to clip an adjustment layer to another adjustment layer. The parent one is not tied up to a pixel layer. I thought of creating a mask and then nesting adjustments below it; but it does exactly what the video is showing: it hides all pixels below

[Newoldschool]

On 7/22/2019 at 8:19 PM, jphthierry said:

It still doesn't match PS. It's playing with a pixel layer all the time. The screenshot below might be clearer. What I am looking for is a way to clip an adjustment layer to another adjustment layer. The parent one is not tied up to a pixel layer. I thought of creating a mask and then nesting adjustments below it; but it does exactly what the video is showing: it hides all pixels below

Hi! Any news about being able to do this? I would like to try AP again, but  adjustment layers are very important to me, specially this feature of nested/clipped adjustment layers one inside the other (sorry for my english)

[- S -]

On 7/23/2019 at 12:19 AM, jphthierry said:

With the above image, you should be able to put the adjustment layers in a group and mask the group.

 

[Newoldschool]

1 hour ago, - S - said:

With the above image, you should be able to put the adjustment layers in a group and mask the group.

 

Thanks S, but is not the same, that way adjustment layers are adjusting everything below them, what I"m asking (and other users too) is if there is in the current version a way to do the same thing that in the image I'm referring to.
Do you use photoshop? is hard to me to explain in english what is happening in the image I quoted, but is not what you are saying, thanks anyway!

[Zero1]

I completely understand what OP is asking for. See attached images.

When you clip the recolor in Affinity, it does not do anything. No matter what i tried, i was not able to reproduce the Photoshop clipped recolor, maybe some one knows a workaround?

[Ron P.]

Ok, I'm going to suggest that you use the Blend Ranges for the Recolor Adjustment, and forget about Clipping Adjustment Layers to each other. They just don't work that way in AP.

What I'm garnering from your screenshots (by the way thanks for those), is that you're wanting to limit the recolor adjustment to specific tones. That's what Curves adjustments do, right? So apply the Recolor adjustment to your image layer, then using the Blend Ranges for the Recolor, to limit the adjustment to specific tonal areas, darks, lights, ect.

Playing around with this, I did come somewhat close to what your PS image looks like. I Grouped the Curves and Recolor. I applied the Softlight Blend Mode to the Curves, and then had to use the Color Burn Blend Mode on the Recolor. I also messed with the Blend Ranges to tweak if further.

I think the Photo Help is misleading on Clipping. From the  Online Photo Help:

Quote

Clipping can also be used to confine an adjustment, filter or mask to a single layer or layer group.

Which suggests that adjustment layers can be clipped to each other, as they appear as their own layer. However they also have a mask embedded/attached. So I think what's happening when an adjustment layer, the Recolor in your case, is clipped to another, the Curves, it is masking another mask.

Now looking at the Online Help, under Using Adjustment Layers

Quote

There may be times that you only want to apply an adjustment layer to either a single layer or a group of layers. This is easily achieved by clipping.

I'm thinking that Clipping is meant for pixel, image, vector layers, ie; some sort of object layers, not for adjustments and effects. Adjustments must be applied to image, pixel or vector layers. While it is possible to physically Clip Adjustment Layers to another Adjustment Layer,  does not mean they work. So is it a bug or designed that way? We need to summon the Tootsie-Pop Owl...

With that, I'm going to stop here while I still have a little hair left on my head, and some sanity.

 

[Zero1]

Thank you @Ron P.

I think we all understand now that clipping adjustments on adjustments or filters doesnt work in Affinity Photo and is a feature that is missing for the time being (or could be even seen a bug as you mention, as you can put adjustments on them as clipping childs)

I am trying to understand what exactly Photoshop is doing, so i might be able to reproduce it in Affinity in a different way. I probably loose my sanity in the process

 

 

 

[Zero1]

Actually i solved it

The trick is to use a copy of the image. Basically clipping an adjustment on top of another adjustment is stacking them on top of each other in a group with the image and then applying the blend mode of the clip source (in my example the curves layer) on the used group.

Sanity check 100%