Jump to content
MattP

Affinity Designer Customer Beta (1.6 - Beta 1)

Recommended Posts

I agree that the contrast for pressed buttons can be slightly less intense. Perhaps it’s a good idea to orient after Apple’s UI Guidelines. For example, the gradient at the very top of the window doesn’t feel right. And these subtle differences, also in other places, make the whole experience a little unsatisfying.

Also, note my other post about the contrast of the studio panels against other windows in the background.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

“Experimenting with some code”?! Designing needs a concept before going public. Out of all reason why Serif that pledges perfection still uses elements that are not centered (optically).

With all due respect for your rights to comment as you see fit, please consider the following:

 

1. Technically, this is not a public release. It is a customer (not public) beta.

2. Concept & implementation are two different things. This is particularly true of beta software, which by accepted industry standards are expected to have implementation bugs that need to be discovered by beta testers. That is the purpose of betas, whether public or restricted.

3. This is just the first beta version of the update. It is not unusual for early betas to have a substantial number of cosmetic defects. The highest priority for early betas is -- & for practical reasons must be -- the discovery & elimination of functional defects. This is in part because fixing functional issues may require UI or UX changes in later versions, which in turn may require cosmetic changes.

4. There is certainly nothing unreasonable about reporting cosmetic defects at any stage of beta development, but please keep in mind they are unlikely to take precedence over any problems that affect functionality, & so are likely to be among the last things fixed before the version becomes a release candidate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Beta is impressive. I had just purchased Designer the week prior to the release and knew of a few things I did not like (the UI color) but wanted to jump in as I have been using Illustrator since 1987 (I think 1st release for a Mac Ci) and Adobe... well I no longer fit their business model. After a couple weeks of exploration and one job, I am very excited about Designer and Affinity's great work to make it "killer"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Other users have mentioned some of the "other" program's tools like scissors being a key missing item but after searching for the Designer "cut" button its a workaround that makes some sense without a tool icon. I can see an adjustment period but I am liking the set-up- like Pixel space and Export space. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

With all due respect for your rights to comment as you see fit, please consider the following:

 

1. Technically, this is not a public release. It is a customer (not public) beta.

2. Concept & implementation are two different things. This is particularly true of beta software, which by accepted industry standards are expected to have implementation bugs that need to be discovered by beta testers. That is the purpose of betas, whether public or restricted.

3. This is just the first beta version of the update. It is not unusual for early betas to have a substantial number of cosmetic defects. The highest priority for early betas is -- & for practical reasons must be -- the discovery & elimination of functional defects. This is in part because fixing functional issues may require UI or UX changes in later versions, which in turn may require cosmetic changes.

4. There is certainly nothing unreasonable about reporting cosmetic defects at any stage of beta development, but please keep in mind they are unlikely to take precedence over any problems that affect functionality, & so are likely to be among the last things fixed before the version becomes a release candidate.

 

Thanks, but consider the following:

 

1. Technically, this is not a public release. It is a customer (not public) beta.

It is not about a beta or technical things. Many optical UI issues went public / exist since the first MAS versions.

 

2. Concept & implementation are two different things. This is particularly true of beta software, which by accepted industry standards are expected to have implementation bugs that need to be discovered by beta testers. That is the purpose of betas, whether public or restricted.

It is not about a beta or gobbledygook. Many optical UI issues went public / exist since the first versions and even in new “experiments” they still are not corrected. If they made a well-founded graphical concept some years ago, Serif could have saved later improvements. One example: The buttons for the Personas could be designed unlike the buttons of the Tools and they don’t need distance lines.

 

3. This is just the first beta version of the update. It is not unusual for early betas to have a substantial number of cosmetic defects. The highest priority for early betas is -- & for practical reasons must be -- the discovery & elimination of functional defects. This is in part because fixing functional issues may require UI or UX changes in later versions, which in turn may require cosmetic changes.

We all know which beta this is but it is not about the beta or gobbledygook. Many optical UI issues went public / exist since the first versions and even in new “experiments” they still are not corrected. If Serif made a well-founded graphical concept some years ago, Serif could have saved later improvements / experiments.

 

4. There is certainly nothing unreasonable about reporting cosmetic defects at any stage of beta development, but please keep in mind they are unlikely to take precedence over any problems that affect functionality, & so are likely to be among the last things fixed before the version becomes a release candidate.

It is not about a beta or gobbledygook. Many optical UI issues went public / exist since years and even in new “experiments” they still are not corrected. Out of all reason why Serif that pledges perfection still uses elements that are not centered (optically).

 

Sorry, your points seems to exist for the purpose of changing the subject.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Consider this:

 

The Persona buttons are in fact different from the tool icons or the other toolbar buttons. They are larger (24/48 px vs. 18/36 for the others). The alignment is slightly off (by one pixel for the Export Persona) in the new light UI but not in the dark UI.

 

It is easy to see what is going on with their design if you open each of the png files in Affinity Photo & compare them at high zoom levels: because they are anti-aliased & restricted to small pixel grids, there is no way to align them on whole pixel boundaries that will look perfectly correct optically without distorting some part of some of their shapes.

 

You can see examples of the same thing in the UI's of many other apps, including the toolbar & sidebar of Apple's Finder.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Sorry, your points seems to exist for the purpose of changing the subject.

 

 

I have to reply to this: R C-R's points actually exist because he doesn't share the same opinion as you, and that's completely fine. Everyone has their own opinions and that's a good thing - and all opinions are listened to and we try to react to them to improve. Sorry when we don't get things right first time, but that's part of being human - we're trying at least.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi everybody,

 

come on, I think we must be fair in this whole discussion. It doesn’t make sense to get personal and cling on words like “experimenting.” If each and every word people have uttered here in the past few years would be scrutinized like the words that have been uttered by the staff in this thread, I fear we would have to close down this forum. That simply does not make sense. It creates frustration on both sides and detracts from the subject matter under discussion.

 

So let us try to find a more balanced view. It is undeniable that the light user interface was announced as a major feature of the upcoming version, and therefore it is to be expected that discussions about this feature will arise in the beta thread. It is a new feature, this thread was created as an invitation to give feedback about the new features, so let us discuss. But please let us discuss to the point and avoid exaggerations. Does anyone remember the early versions of OS X? Cheetah, Puma, Jaguar? Well, in comparison to the graphic and typographic atrocities of these early times, the issues under discussion here are actually tiny details. And have a look at how Apple struggles with the creation of new interfaces for Motion or Logic, just to name a few. If you were to start a discussion here, you would not easily come to an end. So we should not allow us to get carried away and have a sense of proportion. We are not discussing fundamental faults, but little aspects that might need tiny tweaks to be perfect.

 

That said, I would want to summarise the discussion in the following way:

  • On the one hand, I think it is hardly deniable that there are certain usability issues with the user interface, such as low contrast or unclear visual hierarchies (text-related panels). Some of these are already being addressed.
  • Then there are the consistency issues (elements with the same function but different styles), furthermore the alignment, border and element size issues. In my opinion, they do not impair the usability, but in sum, they will add a certain amount of visual noise to the user interface. I have the impression that reducing this noise would be welcome and improve the user experience.
  • Then there is the question of platform-specifity. To my eyes, some elements of the light user interface look somewhat out of place in the context of macOS, as JGD rightly noted. For instance, the marked gradient at the top, and some of the buttons, for instance on the preferences panel. These issues naturally do not arise with the dark interface, since that is so different from the overall design of macOS that a direct comparison does not suggest itself. But with the light UI, things are different. It is inevitable that these differences will become more noticeable here.
  • Did I forget an important point?

So these observations and thoughts, as Matt rightly pointed out, are personal opinions, of course. Everyone is invited to disagree …  :D

 

Cheers, Alex  :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please consider this:

 

It is not about technical stuff but graphical improvements. Matt wrote the icons can (and should) be fixed. If Serif made a well-founded graphical concept some years ago, the Persona buttons could differ clearly and unambiguously from the tool buttons and new users could understand the different function immediately. This could have been achieved by not using the same button colours or by not using a rounded rectangle or … It is about optical alignment. One example: Without that rectangle the first persona button would look more professionally placed. All persona icons could speak the same design language. Lines/Distance lines slow the perception.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Oval

 

I am really struggling to understand what you mean about the optical alignment of the Persona buttons. I have taken screen shots of the Persona button group (in the current retail version), opened them in Affinity Photo, zoomed in far enough to see each pixel, & I cannot see any way they could be aligned any better because the icons must align to pixel boundaries & they are not all the same width, height, or shape.

 

I don't know if I am making myself clear but it boils down to this: if one icon image, including its anti-aliased edges, is an odd number of pixels wide and/or tall & another is an even number, it is impossible to optically align them exactly. One or the other will have to be offset by that one pixel difference. From what I can tell, that is exactly what they did for the Persona icons.

 

Does this make any sense to you?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm sure they are working on this, you can't just throw more Dev's at something and things magically start happening faster, getting new engineers up to speed and meeting code standards takes a long time. Hopefully they are already working towards getting more competent people working on Designer.

 

FYI, by competency I don't mean other devs are stupid, just don't have the understanding of this particular platform yet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tool and Persona icons are still visually misaligned. It is much more about design than about maths. The UI is for humans, not for machines that have problems with mathematical misalignments.

 

 

@Oval

 

I am really struggling to understand what you mean about the optical alignment of the Persona buttons. I have taken screen shots of the Persona button group (in the current retail version), opened them in Affinity Photo, zoomed in far enough to see each pixel, & I cannot see any way they could be aligned any better because the icons must align to pixel boundaries & they are not all the same width, height, or shape.

 

I don't know if I am making myself clear but it boils down to this: if one icon image, including its anti-aliased edges, is an odd number of pixels wide and/or tall & another is an even number, it is impossible to optically align them exactly. One or the other will have to be offset by that one pixel difference. From what I can tell, that is exactly what they did for the Persona icons.

 

Does this make any sense to you?

 

 

HTH

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not talking more dev (although they also need more dev like they employed Steve, I guess not too long ago), I was referring to the other devs that have been collaboration for years already

 

if they can not code a mesh fill tool or sth. that is a weird state of their code base/ code complexity of a brand-new project and is worrying

I wrote DrawPlus's mesh fill tool over 10 years so we have no issues with our ability to achieve it. However, it hasn't yet reached the top of my list so my time is currently best spent achieving other goals which will become more clear as time passes. Our code base is easily extendible, very forward-thinking and there is nothing remotely 'worrying' about certain tasks being best undertaken by certain people- everyone has their own strengths :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually, I can put it more succinctly: if you just want features, we can get them in faster. If you want features that are great to use, we have to make sure they're written by the right people, in the right order :) There are lots of other vector packages - and I personally don't enjoy using them as much...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wrote DrawPlus's mesh fill tool over 10 years so we have no issues with our ability to achieve it.

 

Did you mean to say "over 10 years ago", Matt, or do you really mean over the course of 10 years? :unsure:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tool and Persona icons are still visually misaligned. It is much more about design than about maths. The UI is for humans, not for machines that have problems with mathematical misalignments.

For the Persona icons it is completely about "maths." Just because humans look at them does not magically make the design constraints imposed by pixel boundaries or anti-aliasing disappear.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Same here Matt, I have to relaunch the app to see updated / newly activated fonts...

 

Reset Fonts in Preferences is not actually resetting the fonts, at least for me. Newly enabled fonts don't become accessible in open documents.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Same here Matt, I have to relaunch the app to see updated / newly activated fonts...

 

Are you sure you have to relaunch the app, Ronny? I see the same here as @ianrobertdouglas reported in your quote: "Newly enabled fonts don't become accessible in open documents." In other words, fonts don't immediately become available if they're loaded/installed while the document is open, but simply closing and reopening the affected document is enough to correct the problem.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For the Persona icons it is completely about "maths." Just because humans look at them does not magically make the design constraints imposed by pixel boundaries or anti-aliasing disappear.

 

And it was not about pixel boundaries or anti-aliasing. There is no snag. The icons could be optically aligned correctly, but they are not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Please note the Annual Company Closure section in the Terms of Use. These are the Terms of Use you will be asked to agree to if you join the forum. | Privacy Policy | Guidelines | We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.