Affinity Designer Customer Beta (1.6 - Beta 1)

[R C-R]

And it was not about pixel boundaries or anti-aliasing. There is no snag. The icons could be optically aligned correctly, but they are not.

OK, please explain how this could be done. The Persona icons must fit in a 24 px square grid for non-retina Macs. They need to be anti-aliased to look reasonably sharp. An anti-aliased drop shadow is optional I guess, but I prefer that look. Without changing the shapes so much it makes them hard to tell apart (like all circular or all squared off) how exactly would you do this?

 

I assume you know you can replace these icons with ones of your own design. Would you mind trying that, or just making copies & modifying them, & showing us what you have come up with?

[Oval]

OK, please explain how this could be done. The Persona icons must fit in a 24 px square grid for non-retina Macs. They need to be anti-aliased to look reasonably sharp. An anti-aliased drop shadow is optional I guess, but I prefer that look. Without changing the shapes so much it makes them hard to tell apart (like all circular or all squared off) how exactly would you do this?

 

I assume you know you can replace these icons with ones of your own design. Would you mind trying that, or just making copies & modifying them, & showing us what you have come up with?

 

You are kidding, R C-R. If we would get money to do that job of Serif, we would create a new graphical concept. If Serif has only the resources to mend things, then … Serif had months to create a half-baked light UI, so give us some time for an example.

 

 

“Anti-aliased” does not lead to sharpness! 

[Oval]

Firstly, it seems symptomatic that one must repeat itself until it is believed. One does not examine facts and assert the opposite. You know that it’s frustrating. Worst example was the claim that Serif had allegedly never announced the launch of Affinity Publisher for 2015. Same with aligning UI elements.

 

Here is an example for a workaround of a better alignment of the Persona elements in the non-retina version:

 

Move the Persona background rectangles down 1 pixel. Now they are correctly aligned with the other buttons and the first icon is optically better placed on its rectangle. Move the second Persona icon down 1 pixel. Check if the third icon should be changed. Use (unfilled) (unrounded) rectangles for the Persona icons, adapt the other backgrounds and delete the distance lines. Make additional improvements like adjusting the style of the icons. Other icons need much more adjustments.

 

 

BTW: For some designers pruning and squeezing a logo onto a small gray surface really hurts.

[R C-R]

Here is an example for a workaround of a better alignment of the Persona elements in the non-retina version:

 

Move the Persona background rectangles down 1 pixel. Now they are correctly aligned with the other buttons and the first icon is optically better placed on its rectangle. Move the second Persona icon down 1 pixel. Check if the third icon should be changed. Use (unfilled) (unrounded) rectangles for the Persona icons, adapt the other backgrounds and delete the distance lines. ...

I am not sure I understand what you mean about the alignment or (unfilled) (unrounded) rectangles. Attached is a screen grab of part of the current beta's non-retina light UI toolbar shown in Affinity Photo at 500% zoom level. The horizontal blue lines are guide lines placed on some of the whole pixel boundaries.

 

From what I see there, moving the Persona background rectangles down 1 pixel would not improve alignment with the other buttons; it would just make the tops of the icons aligned at the expense of further misaligning their bottom alignment & the button backgrounds. The first & second Persona icons are already aligned vertically; it is only the third one that is off by one pixel.

 

I also don't understand what you mean about using "unrounded" rectangles for the Persona icons. Do you maybe mean unrounded background rectangles for the icons? If so, how would that change anything? The icons themselves are already "unfilled" in the sense that they are png files with an alpha channel so where there is no pixel in the icon the background shows through.

 

Would it be possible for you to do a similar screen grab, open it in Affinity Photo & move the icons or Persona background rectangles to the positions you think would improve alignment, along with guide lines on whole pixel boundaries & attach a similar 500% zoom screen grab of the result? This would make it easier to see what you mean.

 

Thanks.

[A_B_C]

I actually don’t want to disturb this discussion …  ;)

 

However, there seems to be something weird here, R C-R. When I superimpose your screenshot with a screenshot of my version of the beta (Draw Persona Button perfectly aligned), I get a quite notable difference between the alignment of the buttons on your screen and my screen. Mine is the one with the Defaults button combo, obviously. Therefore, it could be the case that you both are actually seeing different things on your computers … which would be worth noting in and of itself I think …  :unsure:

[JackofDiamonds]

I actually don’t want to disturb this discussion …  ;)

 

However, there seems to be something weird here, R C-R. When I superimpose your screenshot with a screenshot of my version of the beta (Draw Persona Button perfectly aligned), I get a quite notable difference between the alignment of the buttons on your screen and my screen. Mine is the one with the Defaults button combo, obviously. Therefore, it could be the case that you both are actually seeing different things on your computers … which would be worth noting in and of itself I think …  :unsure:

Interesting. I tried the same experiment, and mine is one pixel lower than R C-R's, as compared to two pixels for yours.

 

I'm also on a Mac (not retina), for what it's worth, and I compared windowed, full screen, and separated modes - all the same.

[R C-R]

A_B_C, I think you are on to something ... but I have no idea what it is!

 

I have customized the order & spacing of the button groups in the toolbar using the standard OS X "Customize Toolbar..." option. Besides the different order, I have removed all "Flexible Space" spacers & replaced them with either one or for the space between the Persona group & the others two regular "Space" spacers. (I don't use flexible spaces so the button groups are not spread across my 27" iMac screen.) That explains the differences in the horizontal spacing but not the vertical alignment differences.

 

I also use two System Preferences > Accessibility > Display settings, "Differentiate without color" & "Increase contrast," the latter of which also turns on the "Reduce transparency" setting. However, changing any of those to the system defaults does not change the alignment in any way.

 

I should note here that both my retail Affinity apps & the AD beta are set up the same way with no flex spacers,&  customized button group orders. For the AD beta I have checked both light & dark UI styles with my Accessibility settings & the system defaults, & none of that makes any difference -- I always get the vertical alignment shown in my screenshot. I have also checked everything with just the icons & with text and icons shown in the toolbar, & that does not make any difference either. I just tried adding a flexible space to the beta, but once again, no difference.

 

So I don't know what else there is to check that might explain the difference. Maybe the OS version might have something to do with it but I am not in a position to test with anything other than Sierra 10.12.5, & that seems unlikely anyway.

 

One possibility I can think of remains: maybe the beta reacts differently & resets something if the "Customize Toolbar..." option is used, even for a single change. I can't test that reliably without resetting the whole app, which I am not currently willing to do, but maybe someone who has never customized the toolbar can try that & see if it makes any difference?

[R C-R]

Interesting. I tried the same experiment, and mine is one pixel lower than R C-R's, as compared to two pixels for yours.

 

I'm also on a Mac (not retina), for what it's worth, and I compared windowed, full screen, and separated modes - all the same.

I just tried Separated mode on my non-retina iMac & there I do get a difference compared to unseparated mode -- the persona group is one px higher than the other toolbar button groups. I have only tried this so far for the light UI mode in the beta, but it is just getting weirder & weirder the more we compare results.

 

Hopefully a few more users will try this experiment & post what they get. At the moment, there does not seem to be any consistency or way to know how it was designed to behave.

[JackofDiamonds]

Enabling labels on the toolbar does shift the personas up by one pixel.

 

 

 

... not that any of this really bothers me. I just love a mystery.

[Oval]

Would it be possible for you to do a similar screen grab, open it in Affinity Photo & move the icons or Persona background rectangles to the positions you think would improve alignment, along with guide lines on whole pixel boundaries & attach a similar 500% zoom screen grab of the result? This would make it easier to see what you mean.

 

Sorry, but enough is enough, R C-R. If you don’t see the issues, please ask someone else to do the work. Matt already claimed they can (and should) be fixed.

[C.A.Pelton]

I know this has been rehashed multiple times, but I am desperate for a contour/offset tool. Working in the print industry, I need to be able to show bleeds around a die cut and unfortunately a bleed set up for an art board just won't work for customer approval layouts. Granted it can be done manually and there are ways to work around it, but training artists in a work around just isn't practical.

In reality, this one tool is keeping me from migrating our art department to Using Affinity Designer as our primary layout software. I would love to move away from other applications (and their monthly payments - you know who I mean :) completely.

 

Additionally, when placing an object, Affinity Designer automatically embeds the artwork. I can't seem to find a way to make it stay a linked object. Am I missing something? With a step and repeat linked object, I'd like to modify one piece of artwork, not every instance as it is stepped through an imposition set up.

[R C-R]

Sorry, but enough is enough, R C-R. If you don’t see the issues, please ask someone else to do the work. Matt already claimed they can (and should) be fixed.

It is now pretty obvious we are not all seeing the same alignments. Figuring out why is a necessary step in fixing this. That is why I asked for more users to try what I did & post their results. It is a normal part of the beta process, but it is strictly voluntary. I understand that you may not want or be able to devote any time to doing that. I just hope others can.

[A_B_C]

So I performed a clean install of the beta on Sierra 10.12.5, and used the Customise Toolbar … option, but there is still a difference to the screen shot provided by R C-R, and it looks as if I am closer now to what JackOfDiamonds reported …  :unsure:

 

If anyone wants to scrutinise these, here are also screen shots of the beta on Lion and Mavericks, but obviously these are not very enlightening with respect to the discussed issue. The buttons are just differently shaped there.

 

As a side note: to my eyes, the button borders are looking much better on Lion and Mavericks (1 pixel wide). I am not talking about the rounded corners, but the sharpness. Unfortunately, the dividers are two pixels wide there.

 

But anyway, I am sure you will get these thingies right …  :)

[sorin.jurcut]

It's not going to be turned on for 1.6 after all... we actually sat and used the finished thing and weren't 'wowed' by it so we have come up with a different plan - it'll be better for everyone but it won't happen in the timeframe of 1.6, I'm sorry to say :(

 

If you need some help and pointers to polish it, I'd be happy to help out.

While we're on the subject, is there any news about the mobile "mirror" client ? I've been using a AD+Skala designer combo but it's a bit cumbersome because you need auto-export. In any situation, it would help tremendously if you could add types of vision impairment into the mobile client for testing out designs before commiting to something. 

[R C-R]

As a side note: to my eyes, the button borders are looking much better on Lion and Mavericks (1 pixel wide). I am not talking about the rounded corners, but the sharpness. Unfortunately, the dividers are two pixels wide there.

I still have no clue why my alignment is different, or for that matter (if I understand you correctly) why yours changed slightly after a clean install of the beta. But for the button borders on Lion and Mavericks it looks a lot like the difference (in some apps) between using & not using the System Preferences > Accessibility > Display "Increase contrast" setting.

 

Among other things, that setting increases button border contrast (which is why I use it). For example, in Safari:

 

Not all apps are coded to use this global system setting, or to use it everywhere in the UI. In the Affinity apps (retail or beta) it has no effect on the toolbar buttons. It affects the border of a few buttons in the beta light UI, like the Properties button in the stroke panel, & in all the Affinity apps with a dark UI has the curious effect of darkening the triangle but not the circle in the expand layer buttons in the Layers panel.

 

I am not sure that is relevant here, other than maybe pointing to a few minor differences using different OS X versions or system settings might make, but the only thing that seems clear at this point is the UI in the beta is not behaving exactly the same for everyone. From what I can tell, the png icon files that supply the button contents to the UI are identical in the retail versions & in the beta dark UI, & (I think) the behavior is the same for all of them, so this seems limited to the beta's light UI.

 

Overall, like JackofDiamonds mentioned, this really doesn't bother me. For me, it has no effect on the functionality of the app -- 1 or 2 px alignment differences are so tiny on my 27" screen that I have to do screen captures & zoom in on them to see them clearly. I guess they are more noticeable on smaller screens (or to people with better eyes than mine), so at some point whatever is causing this needs to be fixed, but at this point in the beta cycle there are other issues that I hope take precedence over what seems to be just a cosmetic defect.

[Bri-Toon]

I don't have a bug to report. I just want to say that I am loving the stabilisers. Every now and then, it can be hard to push myself to do work, and that is just because I push myself too hard and I get tired after a while. The stabilisers are such a neat addition and are motivating me to get back into it. I am also starting to change my drawing style.

[Renatox]

please! something for prototype tool, like Adobe XD and Macromedia Fireworks (RIP), are coming?

[steve_m]

Thanks everyone for all the testing you've been doing. It's much appreciated. Thanks also for the suggestions. We'll have another beta ready fairly soon which will include updates to the light UI. In the meantime, please keep the comments / feedback coming, it's all very helpful.

[R C-R]

@steve_m:

 

Are you ever going to get a Staff badge?

[MattP]

@steve_m:

 

Are you ever going to get a Staff badge?

hahaha! I did ask for him to get a 'promotion' - but it obviously hasn't materialised yet! ;)

[steve_m]

Haha. Thanks Matt!

 

Hopefully someday :-)

[evtonic3]

Haha. Thanks Matt!

 

Hopefully someday :-)

A guy with 8 posts and there's already talk of a promotion?! I want in on what he did! lol

[Alfred]

A guy with 8 posts and there's already talk of a promotion?! I want in on what he did! lol

 

No, Eduardo: not a promotion but a 'promotion'. In this particular context, those quotation marks are very important! ;)

[R C-R]

A guy with 8 posts and there's already talk of a promotion?!

But despite being a "Newbie" (quotes also important here) with just 8 posts he already has 11 "Likes" to his credit, probably the highest post to likes ratio of any forum user ever.

 

If that is not worthy of a "promotion," what is?  :P

[Alfred]

But despite being a "Newbie" (quotes also important here) with just 8 posts he already has 11 "Likes" to his credit, probably the highest post to likes ratio of any forum user ever.

 

If that is not worthy of a "promotion," what is?  :P

 

A ratio of 11 to 8 is probably the highest 'likes' to 'posts' ratio (or at least one of the highest 'likes' to 'posts' ratios) of anyone posting only to the general forums, but there are a few very talented forum members who post almost exclusively to the 'Share Your Work' forum and earn lots of 'likes' from those of us who admire the results of their great abilities, thus giving them a considerably higher ratio than 11:8.