Improving My Sharpening Workflow

[tomdot]

I'm working on sharpening as it's a new concept for me, but ultimately necessary when editing RAW files.

 

I don't think I've necessarily got this right, especially with dark colours. For reference, these have been taken with an iPhone 6s in natural light, are all PNGs at 1600px in width, output with an sRGB colour profile, with Bicubic sampling (apart from one image).

 

For example, take the first image (1). It's without noise reduction, a clarity filter, or an unsharp mask. Notice the heavy noise (both colour and luminance) on the black t-shirt.

 

The second (2) is with a denoise and clarity filter. The t-shirt here is too smooth, with zero noise on zoom at the heavy expense of detail.

 

However, the third (3) image (which adds the unsharp mask) is perfect when viewed at a small size, but you can see a ton of noise when you zoom in. I'm thinking my sharpening technique is off here, but I could use some advice on whether this is acceptable. How can I retain the detail in the blacks, while not introducing noise when zooming in? I've tried setting the threshold, but I still get the problem of an undetailed flat t-shirt. I've also tried a High Pass filter first, which improves the initial sharpening, but as soon as the Unsharp Mask and Clarity filter are brought in, the noise returns.

 

In short, I can't remove the noise and bring out the detail in the darkest elements without introducing noise and I'm getting annoyed. :-)

 

 

Any advice, or am I simply overthinking it all and have got it right?

[tomdot]

So I can see that this isn't a forum where help and advice is forthcoming. That's not a problem, but is there anywhere you recommend I can go to get this advice? Most of the answers I'm getting from people are, "I don't use Affinity Photo so I can't help". In my experience, not many people have been willing to share information, which is disappointing.

In any case, if you can recommend a decent forum, I'd appreciate it.

[verysame]

Hi Tomdot,

 

Actually, people are willing to help here. Sometimes you just need to have patience and someone will chime in.

 

Regarding sharpening in Affinity Photo, did you already watched these videos?

 

There are a few more which I can't find right now.

Just take a look at the Affinity Channel.

 

Also, it seems you need to work on the noise reduction, there are tutorials that cover that topic as well.

If you are in a rush, try with Nik Collection.

[tomdot]

I actually think it's others I've encountered so far who haven't had the patience – they've been too quick to show off their work at the expense of helping others. You know what it's like – some forums aren't as friendly as they first appear.

 

I had saw that first video, but not the second so I'll have a look at that thanks. I'd also seen the noise reduction tutorial, but I think I'm at the stage where I need specific advice from the 'experts' as I'm not seeing the results I'd like.

 

Actually, I've had good fortune using a high pass filter where I'd been using the Unsharp Mask, at the slight expense of clarity. In any case, it's still not enough.

 

I have the Nik Collection, but I'd rather learn how to do it myself rather than reply on a plugin.

 

Thanks again.

[R C-R]

tomdot,

 

Please understand that a lot of Affinity users are quite willing to help with any issues you might have but it can take some time for them to work their way through all the posts & decide which ones they can answer in whatever time they can devote to doing that. Plus, since it is a worldwide forum, not everybody is in the same time zone, so please allow at least 24 hours before assuming nobody will reply -- we all have different schedules & different demands on our time.

[rmar]

I would use a plugin. They are popular for a reason. I could probably learn to refine my own gasoline but it's so much easier to go to the gas station.

 

What I have found starting out with my first real photoshop like editor is that everyone is typically light years ahead of me on the basics having used photoshop for so long now.

 

The best advice I can give is to go through all the old photoshop tutorials from years ago. Affinity is just not that old and people coming to it are either new like me or are trying to wean themselves off photoshop.

 

In my case, I would only use NIK for your application (or a paid plugin if it works with Affinity). It's just so much easier dealing with noise this way.

 

For example, using dfine for selective noise reduction https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwbcoCmEMLM

[v_kyr]

Dark areas and low light shots are commonly prone to noise when (over-)sharpened, so one often has to counteract with finer grade demosaic and denoise settings when processing images with a tendency to including such areas. Most raw processors therefor offer noise reduction and color moire reduction settings one can apply to reduce those. Though some sharpening effects sometimes also do introduce more noise than initially was available before in certain images. - So it always depends on the image and the used tools and their algorithms here.

 

There are a bunch of third party tools which deal with this and do offer denoise functionalities. Beside the NIK tools there is also another free tool from On1(the free Effects 10.5) which can deal with noise reduction. You have to try different tools here in order to see which does the best job for you, since not all use the same algorithms here. Also note that applying denoise filters will to some degree usually decrease sharpness and detail of the initial image, so you have to find the right balance here which works for you!

[tomdot]

This is all helpful. It seems as though I may need to look at dedicated noise reduction solutions, but also maybe consider my workflow. Though, I'm unsure why or how a third-party solution is better than the in-built noise reduction?

 

As I'm new to RAW, is it expected to see noise even on very low ISO images? As I stated I'm not using a high quality camera as the rest of you would be.

[MEB]

In low light conditions/dark areas yes. Lowering the ISO helps but you may have to compensate with longer exposure times or rely on other methods like multiple shots + stacking - see this video tutorial for details.

[v_kyr]

This is all helpful. It seems as though I may need to look at dedicated noise reduction solutions, but also maybe consider my workflow. Though, I'm unsure why or how a third-party solution is better than the in-built noise reduction?

 

As I'm new to RAW, is it expected to see noise even on very low ISO images? As I stated I'm not using a high quality camera as the rest of you would be.

 

Well first of all of course you can't expect wonders from a just peas great lens and a tiny sensor (iPhone) under those lighting conditions. In other words some additional light source would probably have helped here to get a lower ISO and thus a slightly cleaner and better shot.

 

A third party tool is here only needed if you can't get it managed with what you already use. Further as I said before, not all tools work the same way in terms of noise reduction etc. here, there are sometimes huge differences on how they work and deal with noise or the quality of their results. So one often has to try out different tools here, in order to see which one works best for what one needs and which fits best for the estimated workflow. Also dedicated noise reduction tools usually offer more fine grade processing options here in this regard, they are specially made just for that usage scope and thus can sometimes even rescue worst case scenario high noise shots better than common built-in raw processor options etc.

[rmar]

This is all helpful. It seems as though I may need to look at dedicated noise reduction solutions, but also maybe consider my workflow. Though, I'm unsure why or how a third-party solution is better than the in-built noise reduction?

 

As I'm new to RAW, is it expected to see noise even on very low ISO images? As I stated I'm not using a high quality camera as the rest of you would be.

 

Most of the time RAW means RAW. However, lots of image editing software "by default" does tweak incoming raw images so you are not seeing an image totally raw out of the camera. Whatever software raw converter you happen to be using might already have some sharpening or noise reduction pre-applied even if you don't want it.

 

All sensors create some noise in your image regardless of ISO. I trust (maybe wrongly) that Nikon's free RAW converter will do the best with my Nikon raw images. Sony provides a free ON1 editor for their sensors. I don't have any Apple products but  they probably have their own flavor of raw editor based on their sensor. Lightroom uses a special flavor of Photoshops RAW converter and the rest of the raw editors are using their versions. It gets confusing if you look too closely at it :)

[tomdot]

I don't think Apple have a dedicated RAW editor any more, now that Aperture is no more. Photos offers basic tweaking, but nothing really advanced.

 

I also saw the stacking video and I was interested in that, so I'll experiment.

 

I like working in natural light, but maybe I need to consider getting more onto the sensor at source by refining my exposure settings? Maybe even set an auto ISO and rely solely on shutter speed?

 

Thanks for the help so far, it's interesting!

[rmar]

If you really want an education on noise and sharpening then I recommend this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1q6duaxTx4

 

and his downloadable image used in the video (all the way at the bottom of the page) https://www.pointsinfocus.com/learning/cameras-lenses/testing-and-acclimating-to-a-new-camera/

 

and the original article https://www.pointsinfocus.com/learning/digital-darkroom/optimizing-lightrooms-camera-and-iso-defaults/

 

He is using Lightroom in this example but the information is useful no matter what software you use. 

[tomdot]

That's going to be a useful tutorial – thanks!