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Im also waiting since weeks for a new Beta. I cannot understand how a beta with so much problems is called a final version. The current version(formerly known as beta) is not stabil in many points, and has so many problems.
Yes, Its frustating at the moment to work with it. I thought with the experience of the products in the past from serif, it would be easy for you guys to solve those problems...

But on the other side I understand that a program like this needs constant work and coding time. I look forward to a new version. hopefully asap. :)

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Embarrasing that mainly german users complain. Guys, if you're not happy with Affinity there are plenty of other options to choose from. If you're not happy with the speed of development come back in a year. 

 

I'm using Affinity every day and it works great for my purpose and I appreciate every single update and improvement. If I wouldn't, I would've switched to something else. You guys should do the same.

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I think designer is a much better app so far. It works as it should be. I use it also every day. Maybe another coding team? :)

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Darkclown, it was not something really directed at you (anyway, only opinions, nothing personal...) specifically, don't worry. Is more of a general feel....I dunno. Is it that I have super powers ? Maybe is that... These aren't betas in my usage by any stretch... Am not having "constant crashes" nor seeing it unusable. It has crashed some times, I'd say about the same number of times other way older apps do crash on me. The difference is the older ones, I know better what those apps don't "like", so I have my workarounds to avoid the situations.  Yep, I don't "paint" with them, probably I will -maybe-  with 1.6, but I have used Affinity's apps quite, and is like two different worlds here, what I hear from some users, and what i have experimented in actual projects. Again, I dunno, maybe I'm martian or sth. 

 

 it's the way it's dealt with those trying to supply better workflows and supporting serif! So I do encourage you to go on providing theses workarounds

 

 

Really, when I see a too demanding (again, not meaning you specifically) user base -actually is a small part of it, just the people happy is silent, even while they are probably legions- I tend to quite not get the inspiration, then.  I need to see a less selfish attitude (in general) . Also, as i mentioned, I took the decision of keep using "my" open source tools and a pair of purchased for my regular workflow. Works great, as it always did. Anyway, I tend to vary a lot of main application, this habit began with jobs where I needed to switch team, machine and project even many times in a day, but got the habit. Is a seriously good one, as you evolve crazily fast this way. Also, find no UI hard at the end of the day. 

 

Maybe also I come from open source communities, and while there's always very demanding people everywhere, the majority has quite more patience... Someone could tell me that that's natural, as they have not paid a dime, but would be unfair, as a lot have donated to the whatever the project hundreds of dollars (way more than 50), and invest TONS of more time (writing full manuals, and being extra helpful in forums, is another scale of things) than the most helpful guy here, and for free. Maybe I'm used to that and is not your fault, just that the contrast is too strong for my taste. But let me tell you this : A too much complaining or confronting attitude with the developers, never *ever* ended well. A patient one, and just assuming the greatest mantra: " Will be done when it's done " is not only better for devrs as then they focus only in programming and boost everything (also way more inspiring for them to find some more flexibility in the other side after they really -some of you can't even imagine...I have been in several, and staying till 2:00 AM - 5:00 AM, and/or not even sleeping, killing a full weekend working and only working, day and night, with pizza for breakfast -  long days of work)  , it is indeed, actually better too for the users -lower stress, and well, in a more serious note, just simply is best to realize what is the actual situation, the real situation, and do your plans as you need to (as I did, I'm painting mostly on Krita).

 

But... I have realized, very, very often, that a lot of the people complaining... I have been explaining how to deal with their issue, as there was not a lack in the software, just the user only wanted to make things in one way (often just the way is used to from a single ONE another app!! ), stuck in his/her brain that had to be so, no matter what. Happily, a number of them did seem happy when I explained it to them (90% of the times not having yet even faced the feature need, improvising as i post, not wasting even really significant time), but was useless, as when several of them found a new problem, went back to the attitude, while my main purpose was not to teach the specific solution, but kind of demonstrate how the user can generate completely valid workarounds when a feature doesn't do what he/she expected. next issue : --> back to demanding complain instead of following that procedure. Now... that does not encourage me at all in making more tutorials or address usage/workarounds for issues to users. I can see how it wont inspire/encourage programmers, either.

 

Speaking about boats -someone mentioned it- is the view that we are all in the same boat. Having patience is the best way to help, often... Is also taking the habit of learn your tricks by yourself as well (well, that benefits mostly the user, and for ever)

 

I think is VERY good and positive to report issues, and explain well what could be working better and why, and even explain your suggestions for improvements. And extremely useful when professionals (like recently happened with a gradient problem -being addressed- in PDF export) detect important, critical problems in a professional workflow, and even provide test cases, example files, specific path to replicate, and in sum, make life a lot more easier to developers to hunt the bug, or better said, so that they can place it firmly in the long to-do list. (although IMO cases like that get priority as is the main core functionality to actually "work" with the tool, professionally. And A. apps aren't toys. )

 

My issue is when users go past that. When you have reported, and done all what you can, and the team is obviously overwhelmed with work to answer a crazily active forum, just stop there, don't endlessly complain as, IMO, you are not getting more than that... useful reports are critically important. Graphic material, screens, to help and catch the bug, I guess they are super helpful (I did a good amount of that in its time).  Constant complaining about...communication...why my app is not yet in the shelves, the web sections, why is not this or that app in every platform, or, my personal favorite, why this is not done like in Adobe PS. These are, in my opinion, not useful, and worse, very damaging for the project. And kind of makes one think if the people posting those really think there's a huge army behind development or something, here... But maybe I am indeed martian, crazy, from another planet or something. Could be very possible, who knows...

 

 

@Verysame. SO, so true !. I yet remember with pain in some companies... A bug in Character studio or skin, no where documented, not mentioned in any specialized article, noo one in the staff knowing about it... Until my usual savior those days, CG Talk, searching posts (even years old) from people seasoned enough in every battle, from some month, some isolated post, one artist or designer had been able to invent a fixing work around... of course, not a single word, in every place on earth about the issue in the support forums (true that were very specific issues in production, very deep, but those which appear when the demo deliver is in just some hours....)

And yep, was not one brand or product. In the days equivalent to today's development status in these apps -just that Aff. is making in months what they did in years-  it was crashy land in all apps. Premiere, Max, PS, Flash, Dreamweaver... One needed to KNOW what will crash when and how, one learned it to avoid it. You said plugins...yeah... forest or hair plugins, among my "favourites". Or TGA alpha channel not exported from PS, while was the most critical game 2D format in certain time... Today all this apps are great, but trust me, not free of bugs. PS is an absolute wonder, I agree, and I'd say most of the CC suite is. I would never -never have- said otherwise. But is not that rare that suddenly the wacom driver has an issue with a lates CC Ps, or a collection of other things. And reason why a lot of people do not even update wildly. (inded, sensible specially when you are in complex projects, with ANY software. )

 

My opinion about the general status of the apps: They are good, solid and very usable (and the very key, most important thing: they have a very bright future). There are issues in every application in the world, and, reporting is good when done in an useful (for both parts) manner. I feel is not fair to call them "beta" (is even a bit offensive, imo ) or non usable. I have been testing them deeply, reported issues, solved issues to another users. There are things to polish, but a lot of work can be done with them already.


Affinity Designer and Affinity Photo licenses, Windows 7, i7  860 (2009) 2.8 GHz,  8 GB RAM, GTX 1050 2 GB, HD 7200 RPM.  Wacom Intuos 4 XL.

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I think designer is a much better app so far. It works as it should be. I use it also every day. Maybe another coding team? :)

 

Hmmm... if that'd to be certain (I have my very doubts on that first statement) I'd say it would be in any case as seems AD has been more time in development, so might be more mature. Also, obviously AP is trying to do all what an app like PS or equivalent does and allows to make today... And that is a crazy lot, a very complex orchestra to play. I'd expect so a very complex development.


Affinity Designer and Affinity Photo licenses, Windows 7, i7  860 (2009) 2.8 GHz,  8 GB RAM, GTX 1050 2 GB, HD 7200 RPM.  Wacom Intuos 4 XL.

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Also, obviously AP is trying to do all what an app like PS or equivalent does and allows to make today... And that is a crazy lot, a very complex orchestra to play. I'd expect so a very complex development.

 

For such a young app, the things that Affinity Photo can already do (e.g. frequency separation, inpainting, and panorama stitching) are seriously impressive. Never having used a full version of PS, I don't know whether its "content-aware fill" is better than the PSE offering, but the latter seems to perform much less well than the "inpainting" feature in APh.


Alfred online2long.gif
Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 1.7.3.481 • Windows 10 Home (4th gen Core i3 CPU)
Affinity Photo for iPad 1.7.3.155 • Designer for iPad 1.7.3.1 • iPadOS 13.3 (iPad Air 2)

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Embarrasing that mainly german users complain. Guys, if you're not happy with Affinity there are plenty of other options to choose from. If you're not happy with the speed of development come back in a year. 

 

I'm using Affinity every day and it works great for my purpose and I appreciate every single update and improvement. If I wouldn't, I would've switched to something else. You guys should do the same.

 

The opposite is true: any objective critique should be appreciated by forum members as well as affinity stuff. There will be no progress if critical points are not communicated.

 

 

For such a young app, the things that Affinity Photo can already do (e.g. frequency separation, inpainting, and panorama stitching) are seriously impressive. Never having used a full version of PS, I don't know whether its "content-aware fill" is better than the PSE offering, but the latter seems to perform much less well than the "inpainting" feature in APh.

 

I agree some features are impressive, but that makes me even more crazy with the bugs. Serif claims their software to be "professional" and so I claim the right to expect high quality of the product as well as in customer relations.

 

But then core features like levels adjustments (with clipping preview !!!) is broken.

How long is this feature state of the art in any post processing software on the market?

 

In my opinion this should have been tested before releasing Photo 1.5.1.54 Win as final by affinity programmers.

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SrPx and Alfred: I fully agree with you last statements! It is a complex piece of sw with high programming demand. And yes, it's clearly focussing the top level of the market in terms of features and capabilities. And I'm pretty sure I haven't tested many function included within the program yet. As I said, I'm not trashing the app by no means! Still if functionality is provided I would expect it to be uasable. That's one of the reasons I'm not desperately looking for new features but would like to see the existing ones working more or less bugfree. This includes a proper workflow - and certainly here the programm feels like hastily stitched together. Even though this has been adressed many times I never read any sensible commetns from serif here. In contrary quite often a nasty workflow was justified as "By Design". I'm very much aware that a new program has different approaches and you sometimes have to say goodbye to old habbits and be open to a new approach. As well I don't claim to have the one and only right way for a proper workflow but at least I think it should be worth listening to those who are supposed to buy the product later and work with it.


iCore i7-3770, 3.50GHz, 32GB RAM, SSD, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1660 Ti, Windows 10 Pro - AP, AD and APublisher latest final & beta
http://www.timobierbaum.com

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I indeed can very easily realize that they are listening (quite more than other companies). If they don't go with the ideal plans for some individuals, that's another thing...They do have their plan, and I bet extremely well thought.

 

 

. Never having used a full version of PS, I don't know whether its "content-aware fill" is better than the PSE offering, but the latter seems to perform much less well than the "inpainting" feature in APh.

 

 

Been my every day work tool (PS) since '95 (and as am lucky to be able to say I have never been unemployed, that'd be around 23 years of deep, intense usage) , worked at 10 companies, and while I have never cared much about those two features (I tend to prefer the core tools and do the same effects "old school", by hand, as I get more control. Similar stuff with a bunch of filters ) , what I can clearly see is that, in general,  AP is a very serious competitor, right now, even with the bugs.


Affinity Designer and Affinity Photo licenses, Windows 7, i7  860 (2009) 2.8 GHz,  8 GB RAM, GTX 1050 2 GB, HD 7200 RPM.  Wacom Intuos 4 XL.

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A beautiful evening.

 

the entire post is refreshing in my opinion, it shows this forum is how alive.

 

@Darkclown,

 

This is of course right, one should point out errors at an early stage, I've also made and fixed relatively fixed and that was the point why I decided to purchase. That's me but from experience also clearly determined nor other error is that needed some more time.
I am as confident.

 

@Alfred,

 

Your text,
For such a young app, the things that affinity photo can already do (e.g. frequency separation, inpainting, and panorama stitching) are seriously impressive. Never having used a full version of PS, I don't know whether its "content aware fill" is better than the PSE is offering, but the latter seems to perform much less well than the "inpainting" feature in APh.

 

I see as well!

 

@SrPx

 

Your text
I of continued to prefer the core tools and do the same "old school" effects, by hand, as I get more control. Similar stuff with a bunch of filter), what I can clearly see is that, in general, AP is a very serious competitor, right now, even with the bugs.

 

... and just that makes the difference to new users of image editing software.

 

Personally I'm only analog with brush and airbrush and then digital retouching 43 years ago.

 

It's still fun.


 

Pollux

 

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[...]

 

But... I have realized, very, very often, that a lot of the people complaining... I have been explaining how to deal with their issue, as there was not a lack in the software, just the user only wanted to make things in one way (often just the way is used to from a single ONE another app!! ), stuck in his/her brain that had to be so, no matter what. Happily, a number of them did seem happy when I explained it to them (90% of the times not having yet even faced the feature need, improvising as i post, not wasting even really significant time), but was useless, as when several of them found a new problem, went back to the attitude, while my main purpose was not to teach the specific solution, but kind of demonstrate how the user can generate completely valid workarounds when a feature doesn't do what he/she expected. next issue : --> back to demanding complain instead of following that procedure. Now... that does not encourage me at all in making more tutorials or address usage/workarounds for issues to users. I can see how it wont inspire/encourage programmers, either.

 

[...]

 

My issue is when users go past that. When you have reported, and done all what you can, and the team is obviously overwhelmed with work to answer a crazily active forum, just stop there, don't endlessly complain as, IMO, you are not getting more than that... useful reports are critically important. Graphic material, screens, to help and catch the bug, I guess they are super helpful (I did a good amount of that in its time).  Constant complaining about...communication...why my app is not yet in the shelves, the web sections, why is not this or that app in every platform, or, my personal favorite, why this is not done like in Adobe PS. These are, in my opinion, not useful, and worse, very damaging for the project. And kind of makes one think if the people posting those really think there's a huge army behind development or something, here... But maybe I am indeed martian, crazy, from another planet or something. Could be very possible, who knows...

 

 

[...]

 

One of the best post I've read in a long time!

Couldn't agree more.

 

It sounds we both have had similar experiences. Blender? 3ds Max?

I still remember all the users complaining about the right click-left click confusion with Blender, or more in general, its UI.

I could never be more glad to have taken the decision to learn it without workarounds (like, let's use this other 3d app hotkey combination in Blender).

I've worked in several places, any with its own 3d app choice (and related licenses, plugins issues). Well, no matter what, Blender it's always been there speeding up my modeling and unwrapping stage and saved my day on more than one occasion.

 

Thanks for posting, SrPx.


Andrew
-
Win10 x64 AMD Threadripper 1950x, 64GB, 512GB M.2 PCIe NVMe SSD + 2TB, dual GTX 1080ti
Dual Monitor Dell Ultra HD 4k P2715Q 27-Inch

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One of the best post I've read in a long time!

Couldn't agree more.

 

It sounds we both have had similar experiences. Blender? 3ds Max?

 

Yep, I started in 3D actually using way more arcane things, like organica, TrueSpace 1, and 3DS Studio for MSDOS (1,2..etc). Then jumped to Max 1.0 during a master, the UI changed brutally to me. So much that got a bit angry I went back to those other not so established alternatives. Later, had to fully master 3DS Max, as started to work at game companies. In those, I fully got into character rigging/weighting (some anim) and scene handling, certain amount of modeling, but my core organic and objects modeling has been always with alternatives. Mostly Wings3D, but being only a low/mid pol (or subdiv) modeler, I ended switching more and more tasks to Blender (uvmapping, 3D painting and rendering being the first ones). Low res topology cage (for the workflow high detail --> low version generation) is sth really doable now in Blender, with or without that ultra cheap plugin. Lately, using a wild lot for commercial projects, very successfully, Blender's scene, material, and rendering with its great Cycles renderer. The original renderer is very god for animation, but not doing much of that lately (apart from the typical 3D intro for video and so). Also, got very used to the material nodes system....So is Cycles all the way. Haven't tried much external renderers though, I follow the rule of trying to do all what I can with Blender official. One exception is using some importers/exporters, and the 3D printing plugin. Also, STL I/O native works great, for that stuff.  Blender, Krita and Wings3D are probably my 3 favorite open source tools ever (I do ALL my 3D now with Wings and Blender! (sometimes Sculptris, too)). And they are -IMO- professional now, in what they can do. Although in several aspects, not complete, to compete in some fields. But 100% usable in any professional workflow, in good hands and being prepared to supply some tasks by another tools. Still, worths it, by far, to go including them in the every day workflow (this comes to support my argument, the pov of using already Affinity in whatever stage of the project they can cover things well). IE, I use Inkscape also, and Gimp, and this sometimes help me in very critical situations. It's just that they are not yet so central in my "arsenal". For video, in every company I land at, I almost demand to purchase Sony Vegas. For simple promotional videos for the web, with some effects (combined with Blender power) that tool rocks in ease of use (and the price is very affordable) and solid output. And of course, very recently added Affinity's to the group. :). There are a bunch others,  just I use them less. (Scribus, Synfig, Paint.net, Gale sprite Animator, Tile Studio, etc, etc)

 

I still remember all the users complaining about the right click-left click confusion with Blender, or more in general, its UI.

 

 

 

Well, like in many things in Blender, I end up concluding is best to go their way. They have it better thought than I firstly estimated, and in the end, I've become used to the large switch from using Blender to Wings (but turn table, pan, zoom, I configure them to work the same)  and any other tool. In Blender, IMO is more productive to leave rmb for selecting and all that. I joined Elysiun forums (blenderartists since a while) back in 2002, but had been using Blender since quite before 1.0. It was initially a not really very practical nurbs editor, little more than that... And the internal renderer lacked in way too many areas. It has rained a crazy lot since then..Today is a very solid 3D solution for many fields (I'd say... mostly all that has some even slight relation with 3D).

 

 

 

I could never be more glad to have taken the decision to learn it without workarounds (like, let's use this other 3d app hotkey combination in Blender).

 

 

Yep, there was and probably is yet, UI themes to make it work and look very similar to Max...IMO, nice for welcoming Max users, but not that practical to get the most possible out of Blender...Still, I tend to set a clear background theme, I am not comfortable with default dark backrgound/UI... And indeed wish I could set a larger font (I'm 44, and when trying to work without glasses (90% of the time)... hehe), but at least if one sets one of those themes is totally fine.

 

 

I've worked in several places, any with its own 3d app choice (and related licenses, plugins issues). Well, no matter what, Blender it's always been there speeding up my modeling and unwrapping stage and saved my day on more than one occasion.

 

Something similar happened to me in several game companies. Today I'm told (I keep some friends that still did not left that industry (give 'em time, haha)) it is a bit more flexible, but still one needs to be able to provide the stuff in the final integration tool format. Usually Maya or Max. No matter if it is animation / CG, games, or whatever (well, FX tends to be Houdini, but that's the one profile I have not gone for) one needs to provide the assets problem-free for those. I found a lot of resistance to specifically let me use Wings3D for the base mesh, specially in characters, but 100% of the cases did let me fully work with it after showing the results, and demonstrating how I dealt with it at work. Blender...not really,  (I mean, I did not even request it) as I only became more productive with, I mean, got to use it more, just some years ago. Still, I remember using it in a sort of arcade machine games company, for generating the rendered pics, many years ago... :D 

 

Thanks for posting, SrPx.
 

 

Of course! You are welcome.  :)

 


Affinity Designer and Affinity Photo licenses, Windows 7, i7  860 (2009) 2.8 GHz,  8 GB RAM, GTX 1050 2 GB, HD 7200 RPM.  Wacom Intuos 4 XL.

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I spent 4 times as much money last year on another RAW editing product. After 7 grueling months of pain, I demanded my money back. The product crashed repeatedly.

 

I didn't know until today that some folks consider Affinity Photo a beta. I've been using it a month, and I love it. I'm in heaven compared to last year's attempt at beta testing a less than alpha product.

 

Be thankful for what we have. Trust me. It could be much worse and much more expensive.

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I didn't know until today that some folks consider Affinity Photo a beta.

 

That's the point - most of us don't.

 

A minority of congenital malcontents don't speak for the majority, no matter how hard they try to position themselves as "us".


Keith Reeder

 

(I don't need bird photography lessons - OK..?)

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Keith, as you mentioned before: speak for yourself but not for others or groups. I don't think you have any valid data to judge number, minorities or majorities ... If you are happy with the app that's fine. If you don't experience any bugs feel happy. It's probably due to the little time you spend or limited functionality you personally use within the app - I can't judge that. I just wonder why you feel the urge to get invold in a discussion with users that have got in depth knowledge of the product surpassing your personal experience by length...

@hlarledge: Have a look at wikipedia for the definition of beta: "Beta phase generally begins when the software is feature complete but likely to contain a number of known or unknown bugs. Software in the beta phase will generally have many more bugs in it than completed software, as well as speed/performance issues and may still cause crashes or data loss" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_cycle). So this is precisely the status of the current so called "final" version of AP for windows (I can't judge the Mac version). In general every software needs a beta phase so I do not consider this as a problem. On the other hand the status "final" signals the user that the sw can be used for productive purpose which I consider as seriously misleading with regards to AP.


iCore i7-3770, 3.50GHz, 32GB RAM, SSD, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1660 Ti, Windows 10 Pro - AP, AD and APublisher latest final & beta
http://www.timobierbaum.com

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I don't know of a single program, photo/design/office/music or any other that when released and even years after release had no problems with some of it's features still having bugs. Affinity is no different, except that Serif are actively (if sometimes slowly) correcting the problems. I have every sympathy with those of us who still have problems with the software, but they really need a reality check, just go to the main Adobe forum/s or Magix music forum, even Microsoft Office forum  and you will find plenty of people who are unhappy about this or that feature not working properly. All of these developers release patches occasionally for their non BETA software, but sometimes you wait years before a bug is removed. Patience is needed by ALL of us!


http://www.bluebottleexchange.com

 

The above site was created in Serif WebPlus X7 and X8, and is in continuous development.

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@Willabong: true, thats the nature of SW ... certainly when it is as complex and build from scratch as AP is. So beeing aware of the complexity of buidling such a piece of SW I'm not blaming the programmers for bugs. And as well true ... we for sure have to be patient (you can't pull the grass to make it grow quicker). But until than ... don't call a beta "final" and pretend stability that is not there. And I'm not willing to compare a situation with companies that are by far worse (e.g. Adobe - where customer support and communication is a complet nightmare) ... serif started to make things better ... So I want to challenge them to do as intended. And yes, they are already by far bettan than other, well established big sw companies ... but still way to got. I tend to look forward - not backwards. If you want to take the lead, don't compare yourself with those inferior to yourself. 


iCore i7-3770, 3.50GHz, 32GB RAM, SSD, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1660 Ti, Windows 10 Pro - AP, AD and APublisher latest final & beta
http://www.timobierbaum.com

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Hi DarkClown and others,

Everyone is entitled to his own opinion and we certainly don't mind users express them in the forums as long as we all respect each other while doing so. I believe at this point everyone already made their points clear, so I'm closing this thread as I think there's nothing more to add.

 

Regarding the issues with the Windows version, we are aware that some users are having problems with it. As stated before the dev team is quite small and is doing their best to fix all reported issues and improve the performance of the program.

 

We did have a Beta phase for Affinity apps on Windows where we corrected/fixed most critical issues/problems that were reported at the time the best we could before the release, but due to the huge Windows userbase and infinite number of hardware and software configurations out there, a considerable number of new issues/conflicts/problems were reported after Affinity's release. Since then we have been fixing bugs and solving those issues and are still doing so as they are reported.

This is somewhat expected as it's the first time the Windows code is running on a high number of hardware configs beyond the beta test phase. Things should get better as we stabilise the code and fix/look at these new reports. This takes time - specially for a relatively small team - but there's no other way to do it other than releasing the code in the wild (we must do it at some point), facing the new issues reported and work to move the application through this first/initial phase until it starts to stabilize. The Mac version is more mature because we started this same process two years ago. So please bear with us while we work on it. 

 

For those participating in the forums it may look there's a large number of users having issues but remember there's no other place where they can report them. There's certainly more that are not experiencing any issues at all. 

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