Beta ..

[DarkClown]

I assume this forum section is still open since Serif considers the "Final" version consequently as preleminary Beta (from a customerrs view a reasonable approach!) ... since you marked the previous Beta as "not for production purpose" you should consider assigning this warning to the current Beta called "Final" as well ;-) ...  at least from my intensive users experience ...

In other words: talk to your customers! We do understand you are struggeling ... we do not like to be punked! Your customers are grown ups ... we understand your problems ... share the status and people will be patient and understand! But currently you prevent any customer contact, you lack communication and its is failing big time! Customer tolerance is getting less the more you refrain from proper communication ...

 

Not happy,

Timo

[Keith Reeder]

 you lack communication and its is failing big time! Customer tolerance is getting less the more you refrain from proper communication

 

You don't speak for "all" customers, and you have no business presenting yourself as if your opinions are the opinions of every other Affinity customer.

[DarkClown]

Keith, of course I can only speak for myself since I'm not an elected spokesman ;-) But I know many users (Photographers, Retoucher and Designers) share the same thoughts as I do since I discuss AP topics quite a lot on various platforms and forums. And since I'm trying to adapt AP into my workflow I intensively work with AP - so my statements are based on the first hand experiance. You might disagree - so feel free to make your statements. But I doubt that pointing out your AP runs bugfree and you're happy with Serif not-communicating will in any way be credible ... But if it makes you happy I explicitly exclude you from my previous and future statements *G*

Cheers,

Timo

BTW: I thought you had blocked me :-)

[Bri-Toon]

Keith, of course I can only speak for myself since I'm not an elected spokesman

 

Then why do you say that the staff prevent customer contact and lack communication when I can see that your three previous topics got a response by staff members and in which you thanked them for the response?

[DarkClown]

Because I was talking about a LACK and not a non-existing communication! And I could give you an extensive long list of uncommented topics of mine! In fact I was referring to essential questions. Future, Roadmap, Bugfixes, Updates ... just browse through this forum and you'll find plenty of unanswered threads and uncommented topics that would need clarification ... And I'm always happy (not necessarily satisfied) about an answer so everybody that takes the time for an answers deserves a "thank you" ... don't you think so?

[Alfred]

I was talking about a LACK and not a non-existing communication!

 

Unfortunately, Timo, "lack" is probably not the best word to use here, since it can mean either mere deficiency or complete absence (depending on the context). As for customer contact, I don't think there's any ambiguity in the phrase "prevent any customer contact", but I also don't think it's a fair accusation.

 

I don't understand what you were trying to convey when you wrote "we do not like to be punked".

[Bri-Toon]

The thing to understand is that Affinity has a small staff, and around 80 new members join every day. If a topic is untouched, it is not because they don't care. They are trying to tackle everything.

[AiDon]

There is NO current Beta ... ?

 

This forum section is where the Beta will be posted when it is available.

[verysame]

I assume this forum section is still open since Serif considers the "Final" version consequently as preleminary Beta (from a customerrs view a reasonable approach!) ... since you marked the previous Beta as "not for production purpose" you should consider assigning this warning to the current Beta called "Final" as well ;-) ...  at least from my intensive users experience ...

 

In other words: talk to your customers! We do understand you are struggeling ... we do not like to be punked! Your customers are grown ups ... we understand your problems ... share the status and people will be patient and understand! But currently you prevent any customer contact, you lack communication and its is failing big time! Customer tolerance is getting less the more you refrain from proper communication ...

 

Not happy,

Timo

 

 

Beta vs Final:

I guess what you mean here is that, since Affinity Photo might not be 100% stable, is not fair to call it a final product.

Now, if that's the case, I think you came to your conclusion too quickly.

First of all, the stability seems to be a serious issue only for a portion of the users who frequent this forum (I'm one of them). For others, they can either live with that or they don't experience serious stability issues at all.

Second of all, if I got you, your point is since Photo is not 100% there yet, cannot be considered final. When, I ask then, you think it would be OK to consider a product final? There will always be bugs to fix, issues and feature requests (some more urgent than others). Now, if you are or have been an Adobe customer, you definitely know what I'm talking about.

Just yesterday I started working in a studio where they run CC 2017. The bugs with the AE cache, which has been a real pain since the very first CC, it's still there! We are talking about an empire's product, with a first release dated 2011! It's been 6, long years!!

 

Communication

I don't quite get what are your expectations, here. Are you referring to a roadmap with a precise schedule?

As far as the communication goes, I myself have posted and didn't receive answers in a few occasions, I consider that normal. For a software which I bought for $50 (actually $39 with the launch offer), I don't think I can ask for more than what the moderators are already doing on the forum. In fact, as already pointed, the forum is very active.

Also, consider that, perhaps because of the price, a lot of users here are newbie or not trained professionals, which means the forum is filled with questions every day which moderators have to take into account in order to help them to overcome the first obstacles.

As I already posted in other threads, I personally wish there were less irrelevant feature requests (an Affinity Animation/Editing program, basic Timeline for Photo, a Dam and so on so forth), especially considered there are core features and more serious topics to figure out first, but that's just my thought.

 

Lastly, when you get stuck and your post seems to go unnoticed, bump it, chances are someone will chime in and help, or some administrator may notice it.

[Rafal]

Don't be so passive aggressive thorwards DarkClown, All he says is the affinity don't particulary feel like sharing their progress with fixing bugs, but they should. Why? because Photo diid not leave the beta phase yet for many customers here. Affinity (and some clients) can say "yeah.. it does", but that is simply put a lie. I can not use Photo for production of literally ANYTHING right now with the so called "final version". I cannot even draw a simple desired stroke. As much as i want to stay positive and encouraging, this is becoming a joke.

 

If you are one of few happy clients that did not encounter any problems (because don't use some fucntions or tablet) please stay happy and don't overinterpret DarkClown words. He never stated he speak for everyone, but he speaks for A LOT us.

[AiDon]

For windows go to thus sub-forum to see what bugs have been resolved:

 

https://forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php?/forum/37-resolved-subforum-for-when-bugs-get-resolved/

[Gasman]

I agree with Rafal, I would suggest cutting Timo some slack and not to judge him too harshly. If I understand correctly he is coming at AP from a professional point of view which I imagine can be highly frustrating if your livelihood depends on the software working correctly. I am just a hobbyist and so can maybe afford to play around with apps and to be honest I bought AP back when it was released but the painfully slow raw loading times just make it impractical for an impatient person like me to use until the relevant update is released.

Regards

Steve

[DarkClown]

Thank you for the constructive comments.

Alfred: Sorry for not using the right words to precisely describe the situation (of course I was referring to "mere deficiency") ... it's maybe due to the fact that I'm not a native english speaker - nervertheless I think there was a good chance to understand if you wanted to ;-) ... an yes, I didn't mean to say they are generally not communicating. They do spend quite some effort in this forum. I acknowledge and appreciate this. I'm criticising that they always seem to pull back (don't communicate any more) when you get to the more important and essential questions. And I disapprove this "run and hide" attitude.

Blueduc: Well Serif has a significant employee size ... so I wouldn't call it small. But size is always relative to the goals you're trying to achieve. Considering the amount of tasks that pile up they are probably struggeling with team size or the assignment of team members to the right tasks. Since I'm not involved I can't and won't judge that. I'd disagree with your statement "they are trying to tackle everything" ... Thats definately something they don't do. In contrary. They are deliberately avoiding certain topics.

Verysame: Working intensively with the final of AP on Windows leads to an unhandlet exception every 15-20 minutes. Aside that unpredictabel behaviour and things that simply don't work even though they shoud. 70% of the bugs or malfunctions I report are "acknowledged, noted down and passed on to development" ... So it's not based on a crappy and ruined windows installation. And we are talking final version here - not the run out beta any more. And as I said, why supply a beta when the final never left a beta status. I'm very much aware that a software is likely to have bugs even in the final version, there is no 100% bugfree SW - but there is a difference between a functional bug that occours after using the sw for a reasonable time and a SW that crashes every 20 minutes with unhadled exceptions. shows unpredictabel behaviour and has functional errors. This is a BETA version - for testing an improvement purpose.  And I'm (as many otheres too) doing an intensive sw quality engineering job for serif here - all for free. Because we want this product to be an alternative and even better than the market leader. The only thing I'm asking for in return is to be taken serious with my inputs ... But unless it a serious reproducable bug or an already 12 times answered old topic comes up serif seems to be playing dead.
And when it comes to communication just have a look at this ongoing topic: https://forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php?/topic/28123-affinity-publisher/- a clear communication and setting things straight could have easily solved it. Another example is this list I'm continuosly extending for 3 months now without getting a response or comments on it at all: https://forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php?/topic/33589-ap-new-handling-and-functional-features/ . Of course I'm very much aware that not every comment can be answered by serif. And most topics are handled quite well between the forum participants themselves. But there are some things that for sure can only be clarified by serif staff. Roadmaps, timelines, SW crashes that are long time known but don't get resolved (e.g. 32bit HDR crash). Keeping rumors alive with regards to extending the sw range (DAM, Publisher or even ridiculous customer request for video production) - instead of (even communicationwise) clearly focussing on providing stable version of the existing SW. And it seems that even support staff and developers don't communicate or agree on certain things (e.g.: https://forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php?/topic/36433-bug-in-ap-resizing-doc-removes-perspective-live-filter-setting/)

Seeing that for every productive(!) project I'm still going back to work with my PS CS6 it's an indicator that AP currently can not be used in a stable workflow. I wish it would be different. But there are to many surprises, crashes and data lsses as well as not thought through workflow to use it in productive business.

[harrym]

"unhandlet exception every 15-20 minutes"

 

Then as a professional you shouldn't be wasting your time with this software I certainly wouldn't if that was my experience.

[DarkClown]

See my problem ...

[Jamon]

It is beta quality, and you did pay to beta test; but you also paid to support development, and are investing in a development process that could result in having better tools in the future.

 

Building Affinity is a lot of work, and it's happening behind the curtains. They've not slowed down, and they're aware of the rough edges that need polishing. How they handle communication, and whether it makes you feel good or bad doesn't really matter. You're aware it's beta software. There's a trial available before purchasing so anyone planning to buy can realize this on their own.

 

I chose to purchase both Photo and Designer despite not even using it, or needing to use it. I find some core aspects to be almost unusable. But I've long purged all Adobe software from my systems, and what they have thus far has a lot of potential. As long as they continue development, and don't switch to a forced subscription model, I think the investment was worth the risk.

 

They're a business, and hopefully your money helped throw fuel on the fire, to help motivate them by showing there's demand. If it's not ready yet, then you don't need to use it right now; as long as they continue to improve things, you should get your money's worth eventually. If you're frustrated trying to work with dysfunctional software, and broken communication, then step away.

 

When you come back in months, it should be better. There are many excellent powerful aspects of the software, where it's not worth giving up now, losing patience, and succumbing to dark forces, even if you are the "Dark Clown". It's understandable why a business wouldn't want to advertise, "Buy our new product, that isn't actually ready for production!", or broadcast all the details of their operation. Those things can detract from the mission, and all that really matters is that they maintain focus and continue updating the software with necessary improvements.

 

There's a lot of amazing things you can do with Affinity right now, despite it still being heavily under construction. Just keep saving, and take a break when you step on a nail. It'll get better.

[Bri-Toon]

DarkClown,

I owe you an apology. A lot of us love the work of Affinity, and a lot of us think it can be better. I'm the type who loves the work, but I shouldn't have gotten nosey and made a mean assumption. So I am sorry for that. You are a member, and you have a right to agree or disagree with its progress. I hope no harm is done.

[DarkClown]

Don't worry, Bleduc - no need for apologies ... I'm aware that I have some views and perceptions not everybody shares all the time. Nevertheless I do have good reasons for my point of view - and I think I can justify it based on arguments - not just "grumpy emotions" ;-). So I did not take anything personally. I think we all want to make AP the SW of our choice. That's one of the main reasons why we all get engage to this extend, find and report bugs, write comments and threads. Spend a serious amount of our spare time without getting anything back in the first and second place ... but we do hope to finally get a proper working product in the end. So for all of us it's frustrating seeing so little change - and it feels serif is not appreciating our engagement. Some are upset about people like me criticising serif - others are unhappy for writing long improvement lists and getting ignored and some are upset about serif not sharing status information ... And as long as you only had positive experience with AP it's probably hard to undestand where the harsh criticism comes from ...

[Pollux]

Hallo  DarkClown,

in diesem Post kannst du dich nicht über zu wenig Interesse beschweren. ;) 
Leider habe ich es schon bemerkt das einige Fragen von Dir sehr zögerlich beantwortet wurden., deshalb gab es von mir auch ein Like!
Ich verstehe dich schon nur meine persönliche Meinung ob man Affinity Photo in einem professionellen Workflow  intergrieren kann, sehe ich im Moment für zu sportlich an.

 

Affinity Photo ist eine spannende und interessante Software, die mir persönlich viel Spaß macht, es geht eine Menge und Fehler habe ich zum Glück sehr selten.

 

Pollux

 

 

in this post you can not complain about too little interest. ;) 

Unfortunately I've noticed very hesitantly answered the few questions you were., so there was also a like me!

I understand you only whether you affinity photo in a professional workflow integrate can, I look at my personal opinion at the moment for to sporty.

Affinity photo is an exciting and interesting software which makes me personally enjoy, it goes a lot and I have error fortunately very rare.

Pollux

 

[SrPx]

Just yesterday I started working in a studio where they run CC 2017. The bugs with the AE cache, which has been a real pain since the very first CC, it's still there! We are talking about an empire's product, with a first release dated 2011! It's been 6, long years!!

 

 

Indeed, that suite has had lots of issues in many of its applications, that indeed lasted years. Other applications like 3ds Max, were at times a full concert of bugs, some versions were close to unusable (and the UI concept: much worse than Affinity's ! ). The tool is tons better now, but just to mention how not just in the first 2 years, but even for much longer times, very established apps of today had a past full of nightmares...

 

I personally wish there were less irrelevant feature requests (an Affinity Animation/Editing program, basic Timeline for Photo, a Dam and so on so forth)

 

 

I totally agree. Specially because the more demanding tasks are in the professional world, and in this we need solid, error free functionality and stability, as a must. The "do it all" apps covering a crazy load of fields ( or diverting a small company's resources in a bazillion of apps, which is probably more of an older Serif focus, maybe. IMO, less professional than the Affinity line (a different business)) isn't good even for the hobbyists *IMO*...

 

Don't be so passive aggressive thorwards DarkClown, 

 

I hope that does not mean we can't as well give a point of view ! Neither would be healthy to leave here the impression that ALL the users find the apps useless of full of issues, as I am professional (as a freelancer and have worked in a bunch of companies) and find it pretty useful, with the limitations expected to find in a very new line of applications as also in every work in progress project. And BTW, I notice more aggressivity or less politeness in several -not all- of the complaints rather than in the users who post a more positive feedback about the A. applications.

 

 

I agree with Rafal, I would suggest cutting Timo some slack and not to judge him too harshly. If I understand correctly he is coming at AP from a professional point of view which I imagine can be highly frustrating if your livelihood depends on the software working correctly. I am just a hobbyist and so can maybe afford to play around with apps and to be honest I bought AP back when it was released but the painfully slow raw loading times just make it impractical for an impatient person like me to use until the relevant update is released.

Regards

Steve

 

I am a professional, too. From a different field, maybe, though. But that'd favor my point, as indeed one of the most lacking areas is the brush engine (ie, for drawing line art, illustration, comic). Still, IMO the issue here is if people is, with a totally new application, wishing to fully replace PS or AI all of a sudden. That'd be wrong, for now. I cannot use AP for painting (I mean, drawing, as painting... could somehow do...), I mean, I totally could but I have a better brush / draw behavior in other apps I own or that are open source (Krita's engine is very hard to beat), so I do like I have done in my entire professional life, I just use what is practical to use for whatever the tasks. And as the apps will go evolving, more and more tasks will be able to be moved to Affinity's. If you prefer to have it all now and ready, perfect, (you will still have issues with the top dogs, btw) , then you should just use only CC.

 

My take, and am as pro as any one else that do this for a living, is: For now I can "only" (I mean, that's a lot) use AP for image editing and other applications like Krita or Manga Studio for line art drawing, at least until AP and AD 1.6 hit the store.  And AP for whenever I need files preparation, cmyk (well, quite a number of things in this matter are already supported by the others, as well, but IMO, not to the same degree and completeness than you have in AP or AD) color stuff, etc. Also, using AD only for vector illustration not "hand drawn" (but I do a lot of vector work using only the mouse, since... always. ). This is a WIP path, is the -IMHO- only correct way to take it, as this SUPER cheap apps go evolving, you will be able to transfer more and more stages of your work to them. If you want to fully replace your some decades old suite NOW, it will depend on your professional or hobbyists needs. Not all work flows find stones in their way. IMO, you are getting all what they can provide for now with their resources. Excessive and constant complaining is, like someone else phrased already, a bit of beating a dead horse. They will always do all what I can, I'm sure about it.

 

"unhandlet exception every 15-20 minutes"

 

Then as a professional you shouldn't be wasting your time with this software I certainly wouldn't if that was my experience.

if he plans to fully replace CC's PS or AI, totally. If he could get my focus instead (patience is involved in the process, of course) of realizing that if there are stones in the usual work flow the user has, the only chance is to keep using other tools (I'd still purchase for in case a future price raise, as this apps are extremely low priced,  IMO. )  and only do "some" work (some stages in a project) with  them, for now, but keep growing in knowledge about the apps, so you can help your own path in it. This is not some stupid fantasy of mine: I have done so with Blender, Inkscape, Krita, Gimp, Sony vegas, Virtual Dub, Ultimate Unwrap, Netfabb and a very large etc.  IE, initially I only knew how to use deply the main apps (Adobe's, Autodesk's...) I only used Inkscape for some very  basic vector work and auto tracing images which is an usage very compatible with AD, as it can't trace for now, but you can totally auto  trace in inkscape and import in AD, just as you can also do your line art carefully drawn in Krita and do the final or medium stages in AD or AP,  but when working at a certain company (not willing to purchase too much software) I ended up doing corporate work with Inkscape (still needing for final touches in other apps). Blender, I initially only used it for exporting to some game engines, ended up modeling, uv mapping, texturing, 3D painting, and rendering (a lot). And so on.  

 

A tool may be not to as complete or finished (or in a finished status) as the main dominant one, and still be professional if known its limitations and in what areas of your work you can use it.  The key thing is the future option that it opens....

I mean, I am not into photo editing -I have done a lot that type of work in the past-  but more in the illustration, comic, and graphics for game fields. I should be ultra angry, due the state of the brush performance and stuff... And is not like I haven't looked at it closely. If you have been around since a certain time -not too much-  I made very long posts of my findings and testings of issues (both AP and AD), and also providing workarounds for users, so, I know what level of issues are we talking about. I simply don't get how can't people see that what they are doing is all they can do, and that is very easy to see how the applications do evolve, at the pace that is possible, but quite significantly (fast for what an usual application development pace is, if you have some experience watching it from inside).

 

Trashing an app because can't be fully used (*for now*) to replace your entire work flow that you have with another way much older application, it's a big error, IMO. This is my opinion, like you have yours. And we both have the right to express it.  IMO here there are two options : Just move away and keep paying the CC renting (and/or its current or future raises. Or, if your work flow recommends it and you feel you would have it all covered, purchasing instead Corel apps, or Xara's ), and forget for ever about Affinity, or, second possibility, keep using what you are using now (be it CC, corel, open source or whatever) but get already the apps (now that they're still dirty cheap, lol), and start integrating all you can or your work flow with these apps. Obviously the latter is my choice. And I truly believe is a wise one. Otherwise I would not mention it.

 

 

[SrPx]

They do spend quite some effort in this forum. I acknowledge and appreciate this. I'm criticising that they always seem to pull back (don't communicate any more) when you get to the more important and essential questions. And I disapprove this "run and hide" attitude.

 

Sorry, but leaving that pass by would be unfair. I have been reading a good number of the threads you mention, have even participated in them, replying, and have seen the entire thing happen. They (Affinity staff) did reply every matter and aspect. But I instead observe an opposite pattern here :  They reply about all what is their duty to reply. If you insist in that you don't like the situation, that you want to have all solved now, they choose not to reply repeatedly what they can only answer to that: which surely is that It will be implemented when it will be implemented (when humanly possible). They physically can't do more. The thing is I can testify that this has happened at least in all the ones that I have read from you, of the complaint type (not the other posts, often very helpful or positive).

 

Blueduc: Well Serif has a significant employee size ..

 

Compared to Adobe that would make me smile as a good joke ;) ;)   Besides, dedicated to Affinity (Serif has a lot of other stuff in its plate) only a small few, and I believe part of them spending a huge amount of time supporting, replying all of our questions, issues, posting in twitter announcements and even caring for the web (thus the communication prob...even in some tiny dev companies I worked at, that'd would have been crazy. Devrs would only work in the core applications code. I myself was mainly in charge of all the web front end (code and design) stuff (3 to five portals, surely similar to Serif, in volume, maybe a bit more) and I can tell you that this itself alone is a huge time eater. )

 

It is beta quality, and you did pay to beta test; but you also paid to support development, and are investing in a development process that could result in having better tools in the future.

 

Exactly. It seems a lot of people is fine to back a Kickstarter project, so to get the app or game of their dreams, and wait even 2 years without even a trial access to it... You get here a similar amount to put, but you get to use it, and BTW, I can -and have- used it in my professional work. You are able and allowed to find out work around tricks for issues, etc.

 

Spend a serious amount of our spare time without getting anything back 

 

Kindda disagree here, too. You will -possibly, depending on your patience and if you see the big picture here, (not many can)...-  get a tool that in the end would be VERY usable, and able to completely replace a suite that forces a renting and which price is probably going to be raised (not criticizing that: They can do whatever they want with their business, and CC apps are amazing) , for a presumably low price, even if a bit higher in the future, but still, even in the worse case, you will get a much better deal than the other way.

 

So for all of us it's frustrating seeing so little change - and it feels serif is not appreciating our engagement.

 

Honestly, this, and the above sentence on mentioning that Serif has a big staff (as if all the company could dedicate every single person to the Affinity line)... seems to me you don't believe they have a small team dedicated to this (otherwise I can't see the logic on that sentence) and that the official posts made by them, that the issue is that it is hard to find a very, very specific developer profile, is somehow not true?  Because I have not a single doubt about it (my boss in a previous company had exactly this problem, just in a very different field. IT has become extremely specialized.). And being so, is not that they are not appreciating your engagement: Is mostly obvious to me the other way around: You are not appreciating theirs... Not being harsh, here, just writing what am seeing...

[Bri-Toon]

And as long as you only had positive experience with AP it's probably hard to undestand where the harsh criticism comes from ...

 

Not so much with Photo since I don't use it as much, but I had really good experience with Designer. Back when I used Windows and I was testing the free betas, I ran into that issue Harrym brought up each time the new beta was released. I mentioned it each time. It was hard to address since not everyone was facing the same issue. Eventually, a staff member messaged me and he explained to me what he suspected the problem might be from the crash reports I sent, and he walked me through the process. I eventually got the problem fixed. The point is, I really appreciated the determination of that help.

 

May I ask if the topics you got no responses to were questions or bug reports? If questions, I do find that odd, but I don't believe they are purposely avoiding them. I did, however, catch a moderator's response after someone else thought the interaction was getting less as well. He said they have been super busy working on the new updates on their way. Designer 1.6 will be launching very soon now, so the staff must be stressing to have it release on the promised date. There has been debate about Publisher not releasing on the date that was said in the past, so I'm sure they don't want to have that happen again. Hopefully, the support will speed up again after 1.6 is complete. I'm sure a lot of it has to do with prioritizing, but they still review each topic.

[DarkClown]

@Pollux: no, can't complain about the response to this post and I do appreciate the different oppinions! Even though no serif staff has been sharing in ;-)
But I do feel you need to point out things as long as they do not meet the necessary requirements ... despite the fact that the media is cheering big time .

 

SrPx:

 

I hope that does not mean we can't as well give a point of view ! Neither would be healthy to leave here the impression that ALL the users find the apps useless of full of issues, as I am professional (as a freelancer and have worked in a bunch of companies) and find it pretty useful, with the limitations expected to find in a very new line of applications as also in every work in progress project. And BTW, I notice more aggressivity or less politeness in several -not all- of the complaints rather than in the users who post a more positive feedback about the A. applications.

 

-> I fully agree with you on that one!

 

I am a professional, too. From a different field, maybe, though. But that'd favor my point, as indeed one of the most lacking areas is the brush engine (ie, for drawing line art, illustration, comic). Still, IMO the issue here is if people is, with a totally new application, wishing to fully replace PS or AI all of a sudden. That'd be wrong, for now. I cannot use AP for painting (I mean, drawing, as painting... could somehow do...), I mean, I totally could but I have a better brush / draw behavior in other apps I own or that are open source (Krita's engine is very hard to beat), so I do like I have done in my entire professional life, I just use what is practical to use for whatever the tasks. And as the apps will go evolving, more and more tasks will be able to be moved to Affinity's. If you prefer to have it all now and ready, perfect, (you will still have issues with the top dogs, btw) , then you should just use only CC.

 

-> I'm quite aware that I'm only using a fraction of the capabilities of this tool (same with PS) ... and obviously I can only judge the areas I'm working with. And I'm as well quite aware that not everything one could wish for will be implemented or implemented in a proper way. I've been working in the graphical sw development for fasr to long not to be aware of this. My point is how the issues are communicated and how it's dealt with the improvement suggestions. How serious suggestions are observed and taken into account. Is serif building a sw aside the customer requirements or aligned with customer requirements? Do they really know what customers need or are they just implementing things the way they thing it could be nice? Do they encourage me to go on supporting them or don't they care?

My take, and am as pro as any one else that do this for a living, is: For now I can "only" (I mean, that's a lot) use AP for image editing and other applications like Krita or Manga Studio for line art drawing, at least until AP and AD 1.6 hit the store.  And AP for whenever I need files preparation, cmyk (well, quite a number of things in this matter are already supported by the others, as well, but IMO, not to the same degree and completeness than you have in AP or AD) color stuff, etc. Also, using AD only for vector illustration not "hand drawn" (but I do a lot of vector work using only the mouse, since... always. ). This is a WIP path, is the -IMHO- only correct way to take it, as this SUPER cheap apps go evolving, you will be able to transfer more and more stages of your work to them. If you want to fully replace your some decades old suite NOW, it will depend on your professional or hobbyists needs. Not all work flows find stones in their way. IMO, you are getting all what they can provide for now with their resources. Excessive and constant complaining is, like someone else phrased already, a bit of beating a dead horse. They will always do all what I can, I'm sure about it.

-> well ... I haven't reached the CMYK stuff yet, since everything else is still in beta. Print output will be an issues when the sw gets professional. Until than I'll stick to what works proven.And I still hope it's not a "dead horse" ;-) ... elsewise even the effort writing this would be wasted :-)

 

if he plans to fully replace CC's PS or AI, totally. If he could get my focus instead (patience is involved in the process, of course) of realizing that if there are stones in the usual work flow the user has, the only chance is to keep using other tools (I'd still purchase for in case a future price raise, as this apps are extremely low priced,  IMO. )  and only do "some" work (some stages in a project) with  them, for now, but keep growing in knowledge about the apps, so you can help your own path in it. This is not some stupid fantasy of mine: I have done so with Blender, Inkscape, Krita, Gimp, Sony vegas, Virtual Dub, Ultimate Unwrap, Netfabb and a very large etc.  IE, initially I only knew how to use deply the main apps (Adobe's, Autodesk's...) I only used Inkscape for some very  basic vector work and auto tracing images which is an usage very compatible with AD, as it can't trace for now, but you can totally auto  trace in inkscape and import in AD, just as you can also do your line art carefully drawn in Krita and do the final or medium stages in AD or AP,  but when working at a certain company (not willing to purchase too much software) I ended up doing corporate work with Inkscape (still needing for final touches in other apps). Blender, I initially only used it for exporting to some game engines, ended up modeling, uv mapping, texturing, 3D painting, and rendering (a lot). And so on.  

-> I plan to replace CS6 asap! To reach this goal serif needs inpuit to improve and I hate it to be ignored, sonsidering the amount of time I spent in bug reporting and making constructive suggestions. (Of course Adobe is far worse --- but I'm looking forward not backwards!)

 

A tool may be not to as complete or finished (or in a finished status) as the main dominant one, and still be professional if known its limitations and in what areas of your work you can use it.  The key thing is the future option that it opens....

I mean, I am not into photo editing -I have done a lot that type of work in the past-  but more in the illustration, comic, and graphics for game fields. I should be ultra angry, due the state of the brush performance and stuff... And is not like I haven't looked at it closely. If you have been around since a certain time -not too much-  I made very long posts of my findings and testings of issues (both AP and AD), and also providing workarounds for users, so, I know what level of issues are we talking about. I simply don't get how can't people see that what they are doing is all they can do, and that is very easy to see how the applications do evolve, at the pace that is possible, but quite significantly (fast for what an usual application development pace is, if you have some experience watching it from inside).

 

-> I read your postings, and again, you have been constructive and trying to provide workarounds. I do appreciate this and one can see that you spent a lot of time finding theses alternative soloutions! And again, it's not that one can not understand that there are bugs and weak workflows ... it's the way it's dealt with those trying to supply better worklows and supporting serif! So I do encourage you to go on providing theses workarounds!

 

Trashing an app because can't be fully used (*for now*) to replace your entire work flow that you have with another way much older application, it's a big error, IMO. This is my opinion, like you have yours. And we both have the right to express it.  IMO here there are two options : Just move away and keep paying the CC renting (and/or its current or future raises. Or, if your work flow recommends it and you feel you would have it all covered, purchasing instead Corel apps, or Xara's ), and forget for ever about Affinity, or, second possibility, keep using what you are using now (be it CC, corel, open source or whatever) but get already the apps (now that they're still dirty cheap, lol), and start integrating all you can or your work flow with these apps. Obviously the latter is my choice. And I truly believe is a wise one. Otherwise I would not mention it.

-> well, that's far over the top. I don't read anyone "trashing" the app, nor am I! If I wouldn't believe in it there would be no participation in the forum and no discussions any more ... simple as that. In contrary, I'm trying to encourage serif to change their attitude towards the poeple that spend their private time to support serif and the participating customers by reporting bugs, creating videos, providing workarounds and data. It's a bit confusing why you recommend that people should move away who are already commited? And can you give more commitment than buying both apps and participating in the forum to improve development? And yes, giving all that support I feel entitled to express my concerns und discontent!

[verysame]

Don't be so passive aggressive thorwards DarkClown, All he says is the affinity don't particulary feel like sharing their progress with fixing bugs, but they should. Why? because Photo diid not leave the beta phase yet for many customers here. Affinity (and some clients) can say "yeah.. it does", but that is simply put a lie. I can not use Photo for production of literally ANYTHING right now with the so called "final version". I cannot even draw a simple desired stroke. As much as i want to stay positive and encouraging, this is becoming a joke.

 

If you are one of few happy clients that did not encounter any problems (because don't use some fucntions or tablet) please stay happy and don't overinterpret DarkClown words. He never stated he speak for everyone, but he speaks for A LOT us.

 

Happy clients? Then maybe you missed my post, as I'm not taking full advantage of the product either.

There are reasons why this happens and, the way I see it we should all push in one direction, which is why I publicly asked to reduce the amount of features requests or, worse, nonsense requests as animation, etc.

But it seemed I was just one of the few in this boat, so at some point, I gave up and now I'll just wait and hope that performance and stability will come.

 

But that's not the point. Timo was concerning a lack of communication and that we deal with a product which cannot be considered final. I already explained why his take on these two topics is off, and again this comes from someone who can't say to fully exploit the software's potential but used to other, very pricey, programs I would never say Affinity is a beta. You've got to deal with Autodesk, Adobe, Maxon to mention a few, to get an idea of what is being sold as FINAL, and those are software that goes from $185 per month to $3000-4000 per license, not to mention plugins, render engines and so forth. Any idea about how responsive is Autodesk to users requests? Yeah, go there and check it out, it's horrible. Users keep requesting features, not only that, they keep requesting to FIX or IMPROVE existing features. Oh, don't forget they don't get to know what's coming next, it's all secret!

So, after dealing with that crap, I come here and read people complaining about a $50 piece of software, cant' help but smile and, even if I personally have issues with Photo (because it crashes or because it gets very slow), I know the devs are doing what they can. Someone remembers all the bugs around only last November??? Just visit an Adobe forum and check the bugs and how many have been fixed and how many are still around! Oh, and I work as a professional with the real hope to finally close that door with Adobe.

 

There's no passive aggressive attitude here, at least I don't see it. But since I went through a very similar situation where I tried to make very clear how important is to focus on priorities first, exactly because of situations like Timo's, and I've got a relatively small number of people sharing my same situation, I learned that I have to deal with it and patiently wait. My feeling is that professionals who are trying to use Affinity in their workflow are a limited number here. Therefore, we can't forget there are many other customers, such as newbies, random users, people who just use it for fun, who frequent this forum and they need their attention as well. Thus it happens that a question like "how to create a mask" gets an answer and maybe Timo's not, also because a newbie's question most likely will have a clear answer, whereas for a professional's demand the situation is more complicated.

[Wiredframe]

This thread should be closed. Totally useless discussion with an overall frustrated user. Timo, you really should get some fresh air.