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[APh] How do I add contrast to a mask layer?


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  • Staff

Yes, that was the setting i was referring to. But i believe you meant to say it should be changed to "Add mask as nested layer". That's what it actually does.  Child here may be a little confusing/misleading since both nested and clipped layers can be seen as children of the parent layer when it is expanded in the Layers panel.

 

You're welcome.

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"Add mask as nested layer" would be fine with me, as would anything else to make the distinction between the different types of child layers more obvious throughout the UI.

All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V2.4.1 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7
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1.10.8; Affinity Designer 1.108; & all 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7

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uhhuh. The difference between nested and clipped is not very easy to grasp.

It does not help that when searching the built-in help topics in AP, searching on "nested" returns the "Layer clipping" topic. The "Layer masking" topic never mentions "child" but it does say that masks can be clipped, with a link back to the "Layer clipping" topic. I can't find any topic that specifically discuses nesting by that name, so I end up going round & round between the clipping & masking topics hoping that something will click in my tired old brain but that still has not happened.

 

So basically, I end up trying dragging to both the thumbnail & to the clipping 'child' (nested?) position in the Layers panel & using the one that (hopefully) gets the results I want. 

All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V2.4.1 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7
Affinity Photo 
1.10.8; Affinity Designer 1.108; & all 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7

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  • 11 months later...

Wow, that was a lot of correspondence. A while ago too.

 

However, I still don't see in any of the above scenarios how to apply level or curves TO any raster mask layer. I can blur the mask (destructively), or sharpen it (destructively) or brush on it (as previously mentioned). etc. But applying a level or a curve TO that mask... well, i'm still not seeing an working answer to that. The goal here is "modify the mask itself", and see what you're doing. As pointed by R C-R in the original post, non-destructively would be great, but destructive (Like: Filter -> Blur)  is OK too. In other words, is there a way manually twee a mask (or a section of it) by using curve and levels.

 

The closest I got to do that is by selecting the mask, then clicking "Refine mask" and doodling with "Ramp". It's not really doing do the job and you sure can't see what you're doing—lots of undo and try again. Clipping, or nesting a level adjustment layer to the mask either affect the layer below (instead of the mask), or have no effect what so ever. I won't get in applying a level adjustment layer to a "Selection" of the mask...

 

 

mask.thumb.jpg.21a22f409054dbfcec1d371e5611b895.jpg

 

Here is an example. The attached image is the snapshot of a mask on which two different level adjustment has been performed—just so we a clear what we are after. The selection is essentially of a wall, less the security light in the middle of it. The challenge here is to adjust the mask, so that the edge of the isolated wall aligns perfectly with the other pink wall to the right. It also needs to match the sharpness of the photo. Applying a level TO the mask performs that task very easily and precisely in a single operation. Of course, this only works if you can actually see effect directly on the photo. The security light is whole other matter, but let's keep this out of the equation for now.

 

So, possible or not?

 

original-photo.jpg

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  • Staff

Hi arkinien,

Welcome to Affinity Forums :)

Drag the Curves Adjustment over the thumbnail of the mask in the Layers panel to nest it to the adjustment then set the Channel dropdown on the bottom of the Curves panel to Alpha. If you now adjust the curve it will affect the mask directly.

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17 hours ago, MEB said:

... then set the Channel dropdown on the bottom of the Curves panel to Alpha.

 

Yup! That just did the trick! 

 

Thanks! I had been struggling with that one for a while.  :)

 

Apologies if that was mentioned in the post above, I just couldn't see it.

 

 

 

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  • 2 years later...
On 1/21/2018 at 12:40 PM, MEB said:

Hi arkinien,

Welcome to Affinity Forums :)

Drag the Curves Adjustment over the thumbnail of the mask in the Layers panel to nest it to the adjustment then set the Channel dropdown on the bottom of the Curves panel to Alpha. If you now adjust the curve it will affect the mask directly.

Has this stopped working?

I followed these instructions but that only makes the adjustment layer have no effect on anything.

EDIT: Ok, I also missed the need to select "alpha" from the channels drop down. Why can't this be selected automatically when you do the first drag and drop action? If a very advanced user wants to drop the adjustment layer on the mask and *not* change the mask, perhaps they could go in there and have to change it instead, while the most used option in this case should be the default?

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51 minutes ago, MEB said:

Hi eobet,
Is your mask nested to a pixel layer? If so clip it instead.
Here's an example with two different constructs: mask_curves.afphoto

It's not possible to adjust the Curves and see the mask as greyscale at the same time.

I think you replied while I was editing. Please see my edit for updated feedback. :)

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Sry for warming this up,
The hint with the alpha was quite helpful thanks!
As i have seen you can only adjust the mask in a non destructive manner, which makes the file bigger/convoluted,
so i tried to merge down the adjustment layer to the mask but without success. Is there a workaround?

Also if there is only one channel (greyscale) it would be super helpful if the main/master curve adjustment affects the channel by default,
reopening the adjustemnt layer sets it back to master.
 

 

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  • 10 months later...

Sorry for warming this up once again. But I am not sure what mistake I am making, though I am a very skilled Photoshop-User (15+ years).

I investigated your demo file @MEB. But I just can’t make it happen that my curves layer nests (and applies) to the mask instead of the parent layer. When I drag and drop the adjustment layer onto to mask layer, so that the vertical bar appears, the layer snaps to the parent layer (thus every adjustments apply to that instead of to the mask). I can’t make it open a second child (nested) layer like in the demo file. Neither with a pixel layer nor with with a folder.

I appreciate the non-destructive manner, but editing mask trough curves etc. is pretty basic editing stuff and this approach causes some strain, to be honest.

Case study:
I have a filled pixel layer (night sky with stars) on top of another one. All I want is the upper layer to only show the bright stars. In PS, I would duplicate the upper pixel layer, turn it into b&w and copy it into the original layer’s mask. Then I would invert the mask and tweak it further through curves, maybe finished with a slight gaussian blur.

In PS, this was a matter of a minute. In Photo, I already spent an hour to figure out how to do the most basic step. I am puzzled.

Edit: Okay, I finally managed to nest the layers properly, but only for a top level mask layer (not with a mask nested to a pixel layer). But since it is all non destructive, I still can’t paste a b&w layer into a mask layer. What am I doing wrong?

Bildschirmfoto 2021-02-19 um 10.18.41.JPG

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  • Staff

Hi @rumo,
To nest the curves adjustment to the mask drag it over the mask's thumbnail in the Layers panel. You should see a small vertical line on the right of the thumbnail when you are hovering it.
Also don't forget to set the Curves Adjustment to the Alpha channel for it to affect the mask (by default its set to Master). Here's a small clip using the same demo file: 

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@MEB Thank you so much! That was really helpful. I think I must have messed up something with the alpha channel, but now I was able to reproduce it. 

One more question, and I hope it is not too off-topic: How do I can insert grayscale images into a mask? Is that possible after all?

Edit: Nevermind, I figured it out by myself. This was helpful.

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  • Staff

Hi @Rumo,
You can simply turn them into masks going to menu Layer > Rasterise to Mask with the respective layer selected in the Layers panel, or, press and hold cmd + alt, click the thumbnail of the image in the Layers panel to create a luminosity selection from it, then press the mask button on the bottom of the Layers panel to create a mask from the selection.

If you want to load/insert a greyscale image into a mask, live adjustment/filter etc,  press and hold cmd + alt, click the thumbnail of the image in the Layers panel to create a luminosity selection, go to menu Select > Save Selection > As Spare Channel, then go to the Channels panel right-click the newly created Spare Channel and select Load to Mask Alpha (make sure the mask is selected in the Layers panel otherwise you won't see that command in the Channels panel). Same process to load it to live filters/adjustments etc make sure you select the corresponding channel in the Channels panel.

Currently it's not possible to simply copy/paste data between and to masks. You can however duplicate and link masks (or just some of its attributes) so when you update one all the other linked masks will update accordingly. More info about linked layers here (video tutorial).

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Hi @MEB,

thanks again. I figured it out by myself in the moment you replied, but your profound answer, especially on live filters, relates to all questions that I might have come up soon.

I also understand that some of the workflow differences come from the different "logic" between PS and Photo. Maybe there could be shortcuts that automatically generate those masks, like alt-clicking between to layers or something like that. Especially since Photo has an eye on astrophotographers who would further benefit from convenient masking. Keep up the good work!

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