There's no apparent way to skew an object.

[Stokestack]

Hi all.

 

I think I've put in a generous amount of time looking for this basic function, but can't find it. How do you skew an object?

 

And why doesn't a search for the word "skew" turn up any relevant hits in the help?

 

I've hovered over every tool in the palette, every toolbar item, and searched the menus for this function. I've rolled over handles on the object. I've peered at the hints in the status bar.

 

But nope; there's no apparent way to skew an object.

[verysame]

Press the V key. Move the cursor toward the center points of any of the sides and two arrows headed to opposite directions will show up.

Now you can skew.

[Stokestack]

Thanks, but that does not happen for me. No such arrows appear; only the normal resizing arrows do.

[verysame]

I would try again, the threshold for the mouse to switch to the skew tool sometimes it's a little too sensitive.

This is what you should get, and it works the same in AP / AD:

 

[R C-R]

This function is described in the help topics, but it is called shearing, not skewing. If you search on shear you should get the Rotating and shearing objects topic in the results. It is also mentioned in the Transform panel help topic -- the "S" in the Transform panel stands for shear & may be used for precision shearing along with the anchor points.

 

If you are still having problems using the method verysame mentioned, try slowly moving the pointer toward one of the selection box side (not corner) handles from outside the selection box. The double arrows should appear when you get very near one of these handles. When it does, click & drag at that point (not on the handles) in either of the directions the arrows point.

[DavidMac]

Shear and rotate handles have FAR too small a detection radius. They are unnecessarily difficult to find and use. Even after finding them, the tiniest drift in lowering pen tip to slate for the click will cause them to be lost again. I have checked every other graphics app on my system and they all have a far larger radius of selection.

 

So far this is the single biggest irritation I have with AP. I have used it almost exclusively for six months now and am delighted with it, I want to stick with it, but this one weakness could be a deal breaker. It's such a tiny thing but it costs me so much in time fiddling around and puts me in such a foul mood that I am not sure I want to put up with it much longer. What really irritates me is that I can see absolutely no good reason for it. Why make life so difficult? Sorry guys, in the midst of all the miracles you have achieved, this one simply makes life hard.

[R C-R]

DavidMac, why not use the Transform panel for this if you find shear or rotation detection areas too difficult to use?

[DavidMac]

Because the kind of work I do really needs freehand transformations that can be viewed 'live'. Typing in numbers would be even clumsier and more frustrating than it is trying to find the arrows and hang on to them. I do use the panel for precise numerical translations, especially rotations, but such occasions are very rare. 

 

My real frustration is why is it like this? It seems so unnecessary. What is the positive aspect of this tiny selection radius? No one else makes it so hard. Is there some piece of reasoning here, some positive aspect, that I am failing completely to see?

[MEB]

Hi DavidMac

I've just tried this with the Pen tablet and the area is indeed too small to be easily reached without requiring much attention/precision. I'm passing this to the dev team to see if it can be improved a little.

Thanks for your feedback.

[DavidMac]

Thanks for this Miguel. I've written about this on a couple of occasions in the wish list entries but never had a response. From a position of blissful armchair coding ignorance I cannot believe it would be hard to change. I really do think it would be helpful. It certainly would to me!  :)

[R C-R]

Are you aware that you can click & drag horizontally on the "S:" text in the Transform panel to change the shear value, & that it updates in real time in the workspace? This also works for the "R:" text & for essentially every numeric text entry field that has a text label anywhere in the UI.

 

As for why the workspace detection areas are as small as they are, I am just guessing but I believe it is (a) to be consistent with the size of the areas where users can grab the control handles themselves & (b to avoid conflicts with other detection areas.

 

Regarding (b, consider that if there are multiple objects near each other, with a larger detection area for this it would be difficult for the Move tool to distinguish between a user wanting to select a different object & wanting to shear or rotate the currently selected one.

[Oval]

Hi DavidMac

I've just tried this with the Pen tablet and the area is indeed too small to be easily reached without requiring much precision. I'm passing this to the dev team to see if it can be improved a little.

Thanks for your feedback.

 

Thanks!

 

And please ask them to enlarge/reduce the active areas according to the preferences of the Tool Handle Size. And perhaps it makes sense to have the active areas not only outside the active object(s) and not only near the mid handles.

 

HTH

[R C-R]

I've just tried this with the Pen tablet and the area is indeed too small to be easily reached without requiring much attention/precision.

Would this not depend on the tablet's sensitivity settings?

[Alfred]

This function is described in the help topics, but it is called shearing, not skewing.

 

Many users call it "skewing"; the Help in Serif DrawPlus suffers from the same problem of only recognizing the one term for this function. It would be helpful if the Help allowed us to search for either "shear" or "skew".

[DavidMac]

Would this not depend on the tablet's sensitivity settings?

No I don't think so. I find the Shear and Rotate handles by hovering my pen over the slate without touching it. It is this part that I find so unusually demanding in AP.  However, at this point, there is no contact with the slates surface until I touch to select the arrows and move them. Without contact with the slate's surface sensitivity does not come in to play as it relies upon pressure on the pen tip. So I don't think this is an issue. I am sure the 'radius of acceptance' is coded into AP itself.

 

I tried your suggestion of 'scrubbing the controls' in the Transform Palette but it is very course and jumpy. The handles give a far more precise and smooth result.

 

I do do take your point about overlap with other methods of selection or other objects but, just to check, I have just re-visited PS after months away and tried this same selection there. The shear is reached via a modifier so not comparable but the rotate, which depends on cursor position relative to the selection handles, works perfectly with a huge radius of selection. 

[R C-R]

Many users call it "skewing"; the Help in Serif DrawPlus suffers from the same problem of only recognizing the one term for this function. It would be helpful if the Help allowed us to search for either "shear" or "skew".

Personally, I think "shear" is a poor choice for this function & "skew" is the only term that should be used. I base this on the accepted definition of skew & its references to angles, symmetry, etc. Compare that to the definition of shear, which connotes cutting something off.

[Oval]

The handles give a far more precise and smooth result.

 

And if users want to make changes directly they don’t want to use a detour via distant panels. Yes, it is about usability …

[Oval]

As for why the workspace detection areas are as small as they are

 

… and not about the easy way for developers to achieve features with less usability (here: too small detection areas). The best products will win.

[R C-R]

I tried your suggestion of 'scrubbing the controls' in the Transform Palette but it is very course and jumpy. The handles give a far more precise and smooth result.

This would not be as much of an issue if the modifier keys worked like they do elsewhere in the UI to change the sensitivity, most notably by using the option key to reduce it. But unfortunately that has not been implemented -- scrubbing these values on the text label always changes them by whole degrees. It probably won't be of any help for you, but the modifier keys do work for scrubbing in the number field itself if you can use the scroll wheel or its equivalent for that.

 

Regarding PS rotation, it has been quite a while since I have used any Photoshop product but don't you have to choose Transform > Rotate or something like that to access that feature? If so, it is a different mode & not directly comparable to the modes of the Affinity Move tool, nor would it avoid the difficulty in Affinity for avoiding conflicts with other detection areas unless it was implemented with a modifier key or some other mode changing method users would have to invoke.

[DavidMac]

 

 

Regarding PS rotation, it has been quite a while since I have used any Photoshop product but don't you have to choose Transform > Rotate or something like that to access that feature? If so, it is a different mode & not directly comparable to the modes of the Affinity Move tool, nor would it avoid the difficulty in Affinity for avoiding conflicts with other detection areas unless it was implemented with a modifier key or some other mode changing method users would have to invoke.

 

 

As I said in my earlier post PS Shear/Skew is reached via a modifier and therefore not comparable, but PS rotate is found by moving the cursor in the region of the selection handles until the rotate arrows appear. It is completely comparable and it works with a massive agree of flexibility and distance relative to the selection point. I don't think I am asking for something unusual or extreme. 

[R C-R]

...  but PS rotate is found by moving the cursor in the region of the selection handles until the rotate arrows appear.

What PS tool are you using when you do that? Does it function the same as the Affinity Move tool for moving or resizing the selected object, or for selecting another nearby one, all without changing its mode in some way?

[DavidMac]

I am using the standard Move tool in freeform transform mode. That is the most comparable to AP. Linear adjustments are made by manipulating the objects handles or border directly. Rotation is achieved simply by moving the cursor a little bit outside the handles or border at which point it changes to the rotate tool. It can be moved very large distances without losing 'contact' with the object being transformed or the rotation arrows disappearing. There is no risk of selecting other objects as no selection takes place if you are simply moving the cursor around without holding the mouse button or touching pen tip to slate. Indeed I find mistaken object selection is far more common in AP because it is so easy to miss the very choosy and small area defined by AP for Shear and Rotate that I am constantly missing it and clicking on the layer below instead by mistake.

[Alfred]

Personally, I think "shear" is a poor choice for this function & "skew" is the only term that should be used. I base this on the accepted definition of skew & its references to angles, symmetry, etc. Compare that to the definition of shear, which connotes cutting something off.

 

I agree that "skew" is a more appropriate term, and that it should replace "shear" in the Help text. My main point, however, was that both terms should be indexed so that anyone using either term would be able to find the Help topic.

 

I appreciate that Serif's view on this is likely to be somewhat skewed, but plumping for the less appropriate term as the only one to use in the Help strikes me as "shear" lunacy! :D

[DavidMac]

 

I appreciate that Serif's view on this is likely to be somewhat skewed, but plumping for the less appropriate term as the only to use in the Help strikes me as "shear" lunacy! :D

 

Ooooff! You must be a Basil Brush fan ...................

[Alfred]

Ooooff! You must be a Basil Brush fan ...................

 

 

Or perhaps I should say, "Boom, boom!"