Designer: What is the best way to ink a sketch?

[Bri-Toon]

This is probably a very basic question, but as I explore different methods of art, I'm trying to get more complex in drawings now. Since it is ideal in vector drawing applications to keep all paths closed, I want to know if anyone has any suggestion on how to transform a rough sketch into a vector outline drawing and still be able to easily apply color? In more complex drawings, I'm having a hard time figuring it out.

 

Attached is an example of what I want to add vector outlines to. The reason I am having a hard time is because some areas overlap each other, but they also fall behind each other. Her hair, for example overlaps her face on the right side, but it goes behind it on the left side. Then the bottom of her hair goes behind her whole head. What is a preferred way to ink this?

[ambiroa]

You can do this three ways:

 

1. You pen every shape, on seperate layers, and then color them in;

2. You pen every shape, select them all and then Divide all, which results in non-overlapping shapes, and color them in;

3. You pen every non-overlapping shape, and color them in.

 

These three come to my mind, but I'm sure others will add other methods xD

[Bri-Toon]

Thank you for your feedback.

 

The instructions are not too clear to me. Can you please elaborate? If by the first method, you mean all open paths and fills behind, then that part makes sense to me. If you mean closed paths for the other two methods, then this is my problem.

 

 

Aside from her glasses, I can't really decide how to pen a shape since it is difficult to tell where to make the close. Since the top part of her hair overlaps her head whereas the bottom part does not, I can have both the top and bottom be separate objects. However, if I close the two strokes for the top (indicated by red), then it doesn't look right.

[gdenby]

My method for traditional comics was first to get the pencil sketch as exact as possible. (Its been decades since i did this, so my memory is not to clear.) Get rid of all the sketchy stuff. Simplify till various shapes could be painted in w. water colors. Then go back over w. an inked brush to make the pencil lines bold, and the edges of the watercolor clear.

 

My recollection is that in a few cases, I was working on a layer of acetate film, w. the lines over laying the color shapes.

 

In your example,I would paint in all the hair. It is not different objects, but 1 object with some color gradations. In AD, some of the gradations could be pixel painted clipped inside the vector shape. The glasses sit on that, and the face shape, etc.. The lenses in the glasses are another layer. In AD, the glass circles would be a mostly transparent fill. That by itself would shade the hair in the under layer.

 

In some respects, traditional methods were faster and easier for making the image. But then it took huge amounts of photographic skill and lots of greyscale and color separations.

[Bri-Toon]

Gdenby, I think it's interesting that your method was used for comic creation. That is exactly what this is for, and I recently finished a class on comic creation (on paper). I want to make a comic called "Angie and the Knuckleheads."

 

Hmm so you're saying to have the face and glasses on top of all of the hair. That is interesting. To do that, I will need to give her a weird shaped head, but I think it will work. Thanks.

 

Yes, traditional methods were faster. I really look forward to the feature to turn pixel selections to vector objects. That will make things much easier for this reason.

[DonTheDude]

If I could chime in, I think the first response you received is accurate. Draw overlapping items on separate layers.

[Bri-Toon]

^^ I like your username, dude.  :)

 

Thank you for your reply. I think I will do it that way. It's easiest to figure out and doesn't cause any stalling. It's neat how everyone has a different way to design.

[ambiroa]

Yes, what I mean with method 1 is indeed draw every shape that exist on seperate layers, so for example not just a complete hair, but also a complete head (including the part that is covered by hair). It might be a bit more work, but this method will be the cleanest and most clear to you to know what part of her you are working on.

 

---

 

To elaborate the other two methods I mentioned, in case you like to try it out to see what method you like more:

 

-

 

#2

 

You do the same thing as method #1, but in the end you select all, and then from the boolean panel, you click Divide All; what this does is cut every crossing (overlapping) lines, and you end up with partial shapes, for example the hair will be one complete shape, but the head will only be the part that is not covered by the hair.

 

The pro on this is that you can have everything in a single layer and still have some organisation, the con is that you have partial shapes.

 

-

 

#3

 

You don't do any of the above, instead, you draw only the shapes that are visible (non-overlapping) directly from/on your sketch, you end up with partial shapes, but this is the fastest method.

 

---

 

These methods have their place depending on time you have and requirements, but also on what works for you or what your preferences are. Personally, I like to 'dress' up, so in case of a head, I draw the full head shape first, and then add the full hair shape on top, simply because I will understand the anatomy better this way. But I've seen digital painters painting a body with only partial shapes, the ones that are visible, because they can imagine the covered parts in their mind.

[Petar Petrenko]

This is probably a very basic question, but as I explore different methods of art, I'm trying to get more complex in drawings now. Since it is ideal in vector drawing applications to keep all paths closed, I want to know if anyone has any suggestion on how to transform a rough sketch into a vector outline drawing and still be able to easily apply color? In more complex drawings, I'm having a hard time figuring it out.

 

Attached is an example of what I want to add vector outlines to. The reason I am having a hard time is because some areas overlap each other, but they also fall behind each other. Her hair, for example overlaps her face on the right side, but it goes behind it on the left side. Then the bottom of her hair goes behind her whole head. What is a preferred way to ink this?

 

If you didn't buy the WORKBOOK yet, then it would be better to ask the Affinity stuff is there what you need and to buy it if the answer is YES.

[Bri-Toon]

Thank you very much for the detailed response, Ambiroa. After testing each of your methods, I find the first one to be most helpful for complicated situations. This is what I ended up doing. I made separate layers such as Glasses, Hair, and Head. Then under those I had sublayers called Line Art and Color. As I was making progress, I realized that I indeed did need to make her hair as separate route layers.

 

 

With the Hair layer being on the bottom, it gets cut off by the Head on the top.

 

 

With the Head layer being on the bottom, it gets cut off by the Hair above.

 

 

So I had to figure out where to separate the hair into two layers. Finally, this is how I did it.

 

 

The red indicates the part of the hair in front of the head, and the blue line indicates the part of the hair in back.

 

Petar, I may check out the book. It's never too late to learn new styles.

[Alfred]

Angie 1.png

 

With the Hair layer being on the bottom, it gets cut off by the Head on the top.

 

Angie 2.png

 

With the Head layer being on the bottom, it gets cut off by the Hair above.

 

Angie 3.png

 

So I had to figure out where to separate the hair into two layers. Finally, this is how I did it.

 

Angie 4.png

 

The red indicates the part of the hair in front of the head, and the blue line indicates the part of the hair in back.

 

I wonder if you might be overthinking this, Brian. You really only need a 'head' layer with one 'hair' layer on top: just make sure that the hair layer doesn't overlap the head layer anywhere that the hair is meant to be behind the head.

 

 

BTW, unless Angie is growing a beard, she won't have any hair coming down from underneath her chin! ;)

bleduc_Angie.afdesign

[Bri-Toon]

I see what you did there, Alfred. The part of the hair that is meant go behind the head just runs along side of it. Yes, maybe I was overthinking it. Though, when I did this in the past, it was easier to animate! Manipulating the hair to make it look like it was blowing came together well. Perhaps that is why I was struggling so much with this task.

 

A beard? Eek. I don't think the kids would like that on their babysitter, even though she does tend to act corny.

[Alfred]

A beard? Eek. I don't think the kids would like that on their babysitter, even though she does tend to act corny.

 

:D

[DonTheDude]

I did one too. I used method 1 where I drew body parts. I think method would be easier than what I did.

 

If someone can tell me how to attach files, I will upload it.

[jer]

I did one too. I used method 1 where I drew body parts. I think method would be easier than what I did.

 

If someone can tell me how to attach files, I will upload it.

Under the content box you typed your reply in, there is a "Post" button. Immediately to the right of the "Post" button is a "More Reply options." Click on it and the content box gets larger. Under it on the left you will see the "Attach" button next to a giant paperclip.

 

In your reply, you think which method would be easier than #1 method you used? Did you mean to include a number?

[ambiroa]

@bleduc

Glad that it all worked out well, and yes, the hair can all be one shape on a layer, but as you mentioned 'animation' just now, it is more logic to make seperate shapes, but obviously that depends on which parts you want to have animated, which only you can tell

 

PS

In case anyone is wondering why Method #2 and #3 are even something one would consider, well in Illustrator you have this feature called Live Paint Groups (which I already put in feature request for Affinity). When you do method #2 or #3, as mentioned you end up with partial shapes. In Illustrator, you can then easily select them all, and convert them to a Live Paint Group, and then coloring them is simply choose a color, and click on the shape you want in that color, similar to those coloring books for kids with numbers. This way, you don't have to select the shape first, it's just dropping the colors, that's it.

So method #1 is the fastest at this moment, but if Affinity decide to have something like Live Paint Groups, then the other methods are way faster if coloring is part of your job.

 

PPS

So if you like to have it, please +1 this thread https://forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php?/topic/27663-live-paint-groups-in-ad/?p=134280

[evtonic3]

This is my favorite method for inking. It can be done in Designer. The pencil tool is key here to create the comic style stroke. For color, you can convert all the pencil strokes to curves  by choosing Layer>expand strokes. Then combine the strokes to create a shape from all the strokes. So you wind up with a compound shape, then create a rectangular shape bigger than the compound shape, place it underneath this layer, then select both the rectangle and character, use the booken operation to divide and then you will have all the shapes independent to color as you wish.

 

https://youtu.be/3sPuXmTLBj4

[DonTheDude]

Yes, I meant #2. here is my attempt

angie2.afdesign

[Bri-Toon]

So method #1 is the fastest at this moment, but if Affinity decide to have something like Live Paint Groups, then the other methods are way faster if coloring is part of your job.

 

I am very familiar with the live paint objects myself. I do really miss using it. The characters in the background of my profile page are all live paint objects.

 

This is my favorite method for inking. It can be done in Designer. The pencil tool is key here to create the comic style stroke. For color, you can convert all the pencil strokes to curves  by choosing Layer>expand strokes. Then combine the strokes to create a shape from all the strokes. So you wind up with a compound shape, then create a rectangular shape bigger than the compound shape, place it underneath this layer, then select both the rectangle and character, use the booken operation to divide and then you will have all the shapes independent to color as you wish.

 

https://youtu.be/3sPuXmTLBj4

 

Yeah I heard of that technique. It is useful because you can overshoot your lines and just get rid of them later. Though, one reason why I actually prefer not to do this is because it is harder to make future edits. For me, I try to keep the outlines as strokes.

 

Yes, I meant #2. here is my attempt

 

Looks good. I like the small addition of the lips.

I'm glad it worked for you. I tried doing it that way, but I must've messed up somehow.

[Butler To Cats]

Hi Brian, if you're going to animate, then the front and back hair parts are the standard solution for object-based animation such as in Moho (Anime Studio).

 

Note that you don't necessarily need to separate out lines and fills into separate vector objects - you can control the line thickness through the stroke pressure profile, although I don't know whether that would work in, for example, SVG export (as opposed to raster output where it should work fine).

 

This means you can tweak the outline later to your heart's content while automatically maintaining the vector fill.

This front hair-piece is a single closed vector curve.

 

 

Depending on your requirements (do you need vector fills?), old-style pixel fills can work too - you can either rasterise your line art and just use bucket Flood Fill on the same layer, or (with either non-closed vector curves or raster) add a pixel layer and use the Selection Brush with Snap to edges and All layers both on (acts like a magic wand selection for visually closed areas) followed by a bucket Flood Fill.

 

 

So many possibilities!

[Bri-Toon]

Obtusity, I love that first example you mentioned. I almost did that too. I also tried experimenting with the dashed stroke and see if I could get just one or two gaps right where I wanted them, but no success on that. One thing that is a challenge in doing it the way you mentioned is to know how to set up the pressure profile map. If there was width tool like in Illustrator to do it manually, that would be much easier. But hey, I think I came close.

 

 

Anyway, I appreciate everyone's feedback, and I'm happy to learn about the different styles. In the end, I decided to go with the approach of closing the path and keeping the fills and strokes as one. To make Angie's hair as two objects, I realized I could close the top part on the collision of her bang all the way to the left.

 

 

Angie Sketch.afdesign 2.afdesign

[Butler To Cats]

For line gaps inside a shape, there's also the old hide outline sections you don't want under a patch with no outline workaround.

 

[Butler To Cats]

By the way, Brian, it looks like you've done a great job without any more need to find workarounds.

[Bri-Toon]

Thank you very much. I'm glad you like it.

 

And what? I didn't know there was a way to hide part of a stroke and still show the fill! How in the world did you do that?

 

Edit:

Alfred, he drew that beard you love.

Edited November 16, 2016 by bleduc

[Butler To Cats]

I may not have been entirely clear in my explanation (mea culpa), it's simpler than it looks but has a severe limitation.

 

There's an extra shape with a fill (hair colour) but no outline on top of the left head. The same shape is changed to a translucent red/pink fill on the right duplicate.

 

The limitation is that it only works when you're hiding part of the outline belonging to one shape on top of another shape with the same colour (the hair colour). It's a simple patch over that piece of outline.

 

Edit: hey! :o  Just because I didn't draw a neck and shoulders covering that back piece of hair...  :rolleyes:  :)

 

Edit again: aaannnd I possibly just got the beard joke. I'm not always the sharpest spoon in the drawer  :rolleyes: