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Zoom at 100% is different to other programs

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Hi,

 

100% in Affintity Photo seems to be rather appr. 150%, compared to other programs like Photoshop CS6, Fast Picture Viewer .......

 

Please take a look at the screenshot. Affintiy Photo & PS CS6 at 100%

 

 

Kind regards

 

Torsten

 

Windows 10/64 32GB

Nvidea GTX970+Samsung UHD-Monitor (4K)

post-35903-0-30694900-1478859370_thumb.png


 

 

Win10/64 Pro:CPU I7-4770K:RAM 32GB: &SSD

NVIDIA GTX970: Monitor U32D970Q @3840x2160 ; Datacolor Spyder5

Wacom Intuos Pro M

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Hi, this is because you have Windows scaling set to 150%. If you placed a 150% monitor next to a 100% monitor, they would appear the same size. Your document still has the same amount of data, we just show it at a different size.

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Hi Mark, thx. for the answer, but :) ...

 

how can I force a 1:1 pixelview then as I always do to judge a Photo?

 

Programs like Fast Picture Viewer, Windows Photo Viewer showing the right size on the Monitor.

If I look at a Picture, fx. from my old Canon 1D MKIII (3.888 × 2.592) will this nearly fit to my Monitor (3840x2160) in other programs.

 

Kind regards

 

Torsten


 

 

Win10/64 Pro:CPU I7-4770K:RAM 32GB: &SSD

NVIDIA GTX970: Monitor U32D970Q @3840x2160 ; Datacolor Spyder5

Wacom Intuos Pro M

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:D  :D  :D ...yes I know...

but it should be possible without doing the math..imho


 

 

Win10/64 Pro:CPU I7-4770K:RAM 32GB: &SSD

NVIDIA GTX970: Monitor U32D970Q @3840x2160 ; Datacolor Spyder5

Wacom Intuos Pro M

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And I wonder if I have my Windows scaling to something like 132% if I can zoom to exactly 75.7575757575757575756% to get the 1:1 preview :P :P.

 

As said in another thread about this, _at least_ an unscaled 1:1 device-pixels mode must be there somewhere, easy accessible. Or in the options make an option to scale / view logical size or device size.

Adhering to the Windows scaling factor for a gfx application is just.. weird :)

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I also encountered the problem on my UHD monitor.

Is this behaviour a bug or by design?

I would expect any program to display an image at its actual size when set to 100%, regardless of Windows scaling. I totally agree with jorismak, this is weird.

 

Apart from that, great job on Affinity Photo! Actually this beta is less buggy than the release of PhotoPlus X8, which is also pretty weird when you think about it  :rolleyes:

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Just wanted to throw in my two cents worth here: I agree with the commenters above. My Surface Pro 4 has a nearly UHD resolution, but a very compact screen, so it makes sense for me to keep my windows scaling at 150 or 200%. When I open photoshop, though, the images are still 1:1 pixels on my screen. To get the same behavior in Affinity, I have to change my Windows scaling settings, and that's a bit annoying. Keeping the windows scaling at 100% makes the interface awfully small and hard to use. 

 

Hope you all decide to work on this!

 

Thanks

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So this is the reason. I was thinking why Affinity Photo 100% zoom image is bigger then other softwares.

 

In my opinion this is absolutely unacceptable oversight. People won't do math and search for the appropiate 1:1 zoom. When i zoom to 100% size i want to see 1:1 pixel scaling regardless of what is my Windows scaling. Every software does that and i expect Affinity Photo to do the same. If you gonna keep it that way, it is a very bad design.

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I just change the scaling windows to 100% to check it out. Something is still wrong.

 

I set the 5px hard brush and made some strokes in both Affinity Photo and Krita for comparison. Both softwares are in 100% zoom (Windows scaling also 100%) The Affinity Photo 5px brush is much much thicker then Krita. I attached the file with the comparison. After that i made more test with Photoshop and Gimp. The 5px stroke thickness is the same with all of them except Affinity Photo which 5px is alsmot double in size. Why is that ?

 

Photo.png

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OT: Looking at the stroke from Krita, while not being very sure, I'd be inclined to think that your hardware or OS status/config is lagging a bit behind to paint well. Even drawing fast, those slight straight lines should definitely not appear in Krita. (so, if the hardware is low, that'd be a good thing to do, update it when possible). Unless you were at the moment having some very heavy task in the background and your machine is not too much of a multi core. This is totally unrelated, but thought I'd mention.


Affinity Designer and Affinity Photo licenses, Windows 7, i7  860 (2009) 2.8 GHz,  8 GB RAM, GTX 1050 2 GB, HD 7200 RPM.  Wacom Intuos 4 XL.

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Of course I understand that I can get a 1:1 pixel by reducing the zoom level for an image if my Windows is set to a higher scaling level, but ultimately that means that the "zoom" level indicator in Affinity Photo will be inaccurate. Most of the time that won't make any difference, in practical terms, but during a busy work day, it's the sort of thing that might lead to an error on my part... especially here at the beginning when I'm still used to Photoshop working differently.

 

It's hardly a deal breaker, but it would be nice if it just worked as expected.

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OT: Looking at the stroke from Krita, while not being very sure, I'd be inclined to think that your hardware or OS status/config is lagging a bit behind to paint well. Even drawing fast, those slight straight lines should definitely not appear in Krita. (so, if the hardware is low, that'd be a good thing to do, update it when possible). Unless you were at the moment having some very heavy task in the background and your machine is not too much of a multi core. This is totally unrelated, but thought I'd mention.

I don't quite understand what you are saying here. If i paint straight line there will be a straight line, why should not there be one ?. painting in Krita is perfectly fine, i dont feel any lagging (unless i have huge file with a lot layers already i can feel litlle lagging when zoom out and paint).

Those lines in krita might not be perfect circles because it was paint in like 20% zoom. Arrows and writings i drew on 100%. You can see there is no straigh lines there.

 

Anyway the problem is Affinity Photo and it's size of brush. It looks twice bigger then other softwares (while windows scaling is 100%).

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I don't quite understand what you are saying here. If i paint straight line there will be a straight line, why should not there be one ?. painting in Krita is perfectly fine, i dont feel any lagging (unless i have huge file with a lot layers already i can feel litlle lagging when zoom out and paint).

Those lines in krita might not be perfect circles because it was paint in like 20% zoom. Arrows and writings i drew on 100%. You can see there is no straigh lines there.

 

Anyway the problem is Affinity Photo and it's size of brush. It looks twice bigger then other softwares (while windows scaling is 100%).

 

As far as I can remember, when you paint zoomed out in Photoshop, that effect of some slight "polygonal" curves wouldn't happen unless the cpu was a bit lagging behind. In krita, if I remember well, also had same capability and would be smooth if the hardware is happy. (drawing fast in zoomed out for me,never gives me that slight polygonal feel, as far as I can remember: Been sketching and inking illustrations quite, recently, in Krita)  . But as I specified, it was an OT (off topic), just a bit of a warning in case that might be happening, nothing else. Unrelated with the issue you were mentioning (hence the "OT" warning I did emphasize)


Affinity Designer and Affinity Photo licenses, Windows 7, i7  860 (2009) 2.8 GHz,  8 GB RAM, GTX 1050 2 GB, HD 7200 RPM.  Wacom Intuos 4 XL.

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As far as I can remember, when you paint zoomed out in Photoshop, that effect of some slight "polygonal" curves wouldn't happen unless the cpu was a bit lagging behind. In krita, if I remember well, also had same capability and would be smooth if the hardware is happy. (drawing fast in zoomed out for me,never gives me that slight polygonal feel, as far as I can remember: Been sketching and inking illustrations quite, recently, in Krita)  . But as I specified, it was an OT (off topic), just a bit of a warning in case that might be happening, nothing else. Unrelated with the issue you were mentioning (hence the "OT" warning I did emphasize)

 

Well thanks for heads up. If there really is a problem, i would consider it Krita's fault though, It is not a well optimalized software yet. It is still great considering it is free. End of Off topic.

 

Does anyone has same problem with Affinity Photo as me, having width of stroke wider then it suppose to be (in 100% windows scaling)?

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This is why I don't purchase the Affinity Photo at launch after experiencing the 100% zoom problem in Affinity Designer.

 

It makes my work a lot harder than work with Adobe software.


The Boss is watching you.  :ph34r:

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Can I ask a question... if you export an image and put it on a website and view it in a browser, what size does it appear on your screen? The same size as PhotoShop showed at 100% or the same size Affinity showed at 100%?

 

Genuinely just asking because I know on Mac I'd expect it to be the same size shown in Affinity... Perhaps Windows has different conventions?

 

The behaviour you're seeing in other programs is because 'retina' (high density) screens came about AFTER the software was written and the easiest way to adopt it is to simply ignore it... we did it the way it works in Affinity on purpose but if it's such an issue then there may be room for a preferences item to turn off the scaling-aware view...

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Hi MattP,

but viewing in a browser on a website is after the image/photo is developed...

To judge a image/foto(RAW) while developing it..imho..a 1:1 pixelview is absolut necessary, without any really inconvenient "zoom-calculatings". If you have some PCs with different Screen resolutions, the zoomfaktor will be different too...that is not comfortable..

This is, for me, one of the biggest disadvantages in AP..

 

Kind regards

Torsten


 

 

Win10/64 Pro:CPU I7-4770K:RAM 32GB: &SSD

NVIDIA GTX970: Monitor U32D970Q @3840x2160 ; Datacolor Spyder5

Wacom Intuos Pro M

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Can I ask a question... if you export an image and put it on a website and view it in a browser, what size does it appear on your screen? The same size as PhotoShop showed at 100% or the same size Affinity showed at 100%?

 

If i export any image and put on website it is the very same size as Photoshop, Gim, Krita shows me in 100% size.

If i work in Affinity in 100% zoom, then export it and upload on site, the image is smaller, because 100% zoom in Affinity was actually over original size.

 

But there is another problem, have you read my previous post?. Even when i switched my windows to 100% scaling, Affinity brush sizes appears to be bigger in comparison to other softwares. 5px hard brush appears to be 8-9px in size in 100% zoom, i uploaded a comparison 100% zoom view 5px brush size Affinity photo and Krita. Sizes are clearly different.

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Can I ask a question... if you export an image and put it on a website and view it in a browser, what size does it appear on your screen? The same size as PhotoShop showed at 100% or the same size Affinity showed at 100%?

 

Genuinely just asking because I know on Mac I'd expect it to be the same size shown in Affinity... Perhaps Windows has different conventions?

 

The behaviour you're seeing in other programs is because 'retina' (high density) screens came about AFTER the software was written and the easiest way to adopt it is to simply ignore it... we did it the way it works in Affinity on purpose but if it's such an issue then there may be room for a preferences item to turn off the scaling-aware view...

 

the problem with the viewing system of Affinity is that it is (sometimes) not possible to get a true 1:1 pixel display of the image. In other words, it's not possible to view an image _without_ scaling.

 

That means you're judging the image and quality as (image + affinity scaling). And that might be different to how other software views the image because they're scaling is different or they don't view it without any scaling.

 

Multiple places around the net will explain how important it is to judge your images unscaled (not like it's the holy grail. Viewing at intended-viewing-size or expected-print-size is of course also important) for this reason: The scaling affects the image, _always_. So it should be possible to view unscaled. True device pixels 1:1.

An option somewhere that sets the viewing-percentage _exactly_ so that there isn't any scaling is what's required / requested. It could be right next to the 'view 100%' option. I've set my Windows scaling to 100% just to get a true 1:1 in Affinity.

 

It's true that if the Windows scaling is set to a round number as 150% you can get true 1:1-pixel scaling by viewing at 75% in Affinity.

But Windows sets my Windows scaling by default to some fraction like 122.33% (because it's auto-calculated depending on the reported display size and display pixels). I can't set Affinity to a viewing percentage that's a true 1:1 pixel that way.

 

And the explanation 'you want Affinity to show the image like other software will show it' is a nice explanation, but not really true. I'm delivering the output from Affinity, in a very dumbed down way, I'm delivering pixels. I want to view those pixels and stand by what I deliver. If the end user is displaying those pixels scaled in whatever way (up / down / sharp / soft) I'm not responsible for that. It's the end-user that chooses to scale it (intended or unintended by display settings :). A bit like I'm delivering a 150x150 pixel image intended to be embedded somewhere at the side of a website. If a user then tells me "Your image looks like crap fullscreen" I'm going to think well d'uh. You're not supposed to view it fullscreen :P.

 

Adding a preset option in the zoom/view options that is called something like 'device 1:1' or 'true 1:1' or whatever, and behind the scenes does a thing like '1.0 / windows-scaling-percent * 10000.0' should get you pretty much there (or set a scaling factor like 1.0 / windows-scaling-factor). I'm just a bit afraid of rounding errors here and what that might do with the scaling still active :S.

 

Kinda the same here. If I'm delivering a pixel image I want to view what the image looks like. Whatever scaling gets applied at whatever device somebody uses to view it is not on me.

 

Another point is that when the display scaling is set in Windows, it's meant to scale text and UI elements. A good behaved graphics program like an image viewer (according to the MSDN this) will use the Windows scaling for text and UI, but will display graphics elements like the image at device pixels 'because that is what the end user expects'. Microsoft's theory here sounds good on paper to me:

If I have a small screen with a huge amount of pixels (those 15.6" laptops with a UHD screen for instance) I want the elements scaled up because otherwise they would be invisible small. But I don't want any image like that scaled because then there would be no point in having UHD pixels (if every program would scale _Everything_ up to 200% for instance). I would just end up with 'finer drawn text' and no good benefit to pixel precision.

 

If the scaling is somehow not preventable, at least give options to have control over the type of scaling (and please, B + C parameters to Bicubic or at least different bicubic-presets) so we have some idea of what it is we're actually looking at. I have the feeling you don't even know since it's "controlled by the graphics card driver", am I correct?

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Rafal - set your brush to not vary size with pressure and test your results - a 5px brush will generate a nozzle of 5px. When you apply pressure, we show pressure as a variance about the nominal size, so it will get larger than 5 or smaller than 5. The brush editor dialogue has blue variance markers shown around the width slider so you can clearly see that it will vary larger.

 

We are in control of all stages and all quality/samplers in place. Everything can be modified and I will talk to Mark about what we will agree to do. I wrote the Mac version and I know why I think it is desirable to act as it does - but as I said earlier we could add a preference to pretend that the screen scaling is 100% and then it will act like the other software you are used to.

 

Thanks,

Matt

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If you use a 4K display with a 3840x2160  resolution and Win10 UI at 125%; correspont exact 80% zoom at Affinity Photo 100% on Photoshop and Lightroom.

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Rafal - set your brush to not vary size with pressure and test your results - a 5px brush will generate a nozzle of 5px. When you apply pressure, we show pressure as a variance about the nominal size, so it will get larger than 5 or smaller than 5. The brush editor dialogue has blue variance markers shown around the width slider so you can clearly see that it will vary larger.

 

If i disable pressure it seems the size is ok, but unfortunately i can not find the option to turn off size variation with pressure. Where is it ?

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If i disable pressure it seems the size is ok, but unfortunately i can not find the option to turn off size variation with pressure. Where is it ?

Size variance is one of the many configurable 'Dynamics' available in the brush editor. Just double-click a brush to edit it and go to the 'Dynamics' tab

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