pipkato Posted October 15, 2016 Share Posted October 15, 2016 Hello, I can't seem to work out how to do this. I've limited experience with Affinity Photo, using it mostly for simple contrast and exposure adjustments. I'm sure I'm missing something obvious but can't figure out how to apply a simple ND Filter effect to an overexposed sky. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJSfoto1956 Posted October 15, 2016 Share Posted October 15, 2016 so create a filter layer using whatever tool you think would give the overall effect (e.g. levels filter). Then set the levels slider to where you think the sky should look, recognizing that the rest of the image will be too dark. Then add a layer mask to it. You can then add a simple blend to the mask layer from 100% black to 100% white for the area and angle you desire (typically only the top 1/3 or so of the image and generally at a 90° angle, but of course could be angled as appropriate). This give a very similar effect as a graduated ND filter. You can even add additional mask that you might use to manually mask a building or person or whatever! Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staff James Ritson Posted October 15, 2016 Staff Share Posted October 15, 2016 Then add a layer mask to it. You can then add a simple blend to the mask layer from 100% black to 100% white for the area and angle you desire (typically only the top 1/3 or so of the image and generally at a 90° angle, but of course could be angled as appropriate). This give a very similar effect as a graduated ND filter. You can even add additional mask that you might use to manually mask a building or person or whatever! Michael Just to build on this, you needn't add a layer mask to an adjustment layer or live filter layer - they inherently have their own masks. So you could add a Levels or Curves adjustment, tweak it to get the result you want for your sky, then select the Gradient tool and just click-drag from the sky down to where the foreground begins. You can then tweak the gradient "stops" so that the stop near the foreground is at 0% opacity, meaning the adjustment effect will gradually fade out from the sky to the foreground. Hope that helps! Such a topic might actually provide a good subject for a video tutorial - different ways to apply an ND-type effect. Food for thought! Quote Product Expert (Affinity Photo) & Product Expert Team Leader @JamesR_Affinity for tutorial sneak peeks and more Official Affinity Photo tutorials Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pipkato Posted October 15, 2016 Author Share Posted October 15, 2016 Thank you very much Michael and James. I really appreciate your helpful suggestions. It's late now, but I'll give them a try tomorrow and let you know how it works out. I agree that a tutorial on ND filtering would be useful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJSfoto1956 Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 duh, of course. Filters have their own masks.Filters have their own masks. Filters have their own masks. Gotta keep remembering that! M P.S. one of my favorite techniques is to duplicate the background, set the duplicate to multiply, then adjust the "blend if" to hide the shadows and reveal only the highlights, feathering the curve as appropriate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pipkato Posted October 16, 2016 Author Share Posted October 16, 2016 Hello again Michael and James. I’m afraid I could not manage to achieve the ND gradient effect on the sky. I tried every which way until I was blue in the face - unfortunately I couldn't achieve the same effect with the sky. In some way that I can’t fully repeat or understand I did manage to bring the sky down a little - it’s very very overexposed compared to the foreground, and the foreground itself is underexposed. So I did end up with both sections closer together. But I can see from the mask icon that I do not appear to be getting the correct mask effect. I’ve tried it with White and with Black and all the ways I can imagine. I went through the Affinity Beginners tutorials and some others and couldn’t find any thing useful. I found the tutorial on substituting the sky, but that’s not what I want to do. So I must be missing some important point in the whole process. In the end I went back to my old copy of Photoshop Elements 9, found this tutorial on YouTube - - and within a few minutes I had the ND effect. The principle seems to be very like what you both suggested, but for some reason I can’t get it working in Affinity. I’d much prefer to be able to work all the time in Affinity Photo. So I hope Affinity add a video tutorial showing the steps needed to achieve what is a fairly basic and useful effect. Thanks again for taking the time to help. (Sorry, tried to include the link to the YouTube PSE 9 tutorial, but the Affinity Forum blanks it out) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smadell Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 OK, so I have been trying to do the same thing. Here's the method I came up with: 1) Put a new pixel layer on top of your photo. 2) On the new layer, draw a gradient (using the Gradient Tool from the tool bar on the left). More than likely, draw the gradient vertically over the sky area of the photo. 3) Adjust the colors of the gradient - one of them should be BLACK with 100% opacity. The other should ALSO be black, but with 0% opacity. 4) Set the Blend Mode for this layer to OVERLAY. 5) To get a less pronounced effect, you can decrease the opacity of the layer. Quote Affinity Photo 2, Affinity Publisher 2, Affinity Designer 2 (latest retail versions) - desktop & iPad Culling - FastRawViewer; Raw Developer - Capture One Pro; Asset Management - Photo Supreme Mac Studio with M2 Max (2023}; 64 GB RAM; macOS 13 (Ventura); Mac Studio Display - iPad Air 4th Gen; iPadOS 17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pipkato Posted October 16, 2016 Author Share Posted October 16, 2016 Thanks a lot smadell. I just tried what you suggested and it kind of works for me. I'm afraid I'm not sure exactly how to 'adjust the colours of the gradient'. I played around with clicking on the top and bottom circle of the gradient and moved the colour picker to the colours. I think it worked. However when I selected 'Overlay' in the blend options the sky came through but the foreground image was also dramatically affected - more contrast and I think saturation. I had only dragged the gradient down to just beyond the area where the sky met the foreground. I've no idea why the foreground was also affected (blend mode?) , but then again, as you will have gathered, I'm not too hot on Affinity Photo .... yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJSfoto1956 Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 Hello, I can't seem to work out how to do this. I've limited experience with Affinity Photo, using it mostly for simple contrast and exposure adjustments. I'm sure I'm missing something obvious but can't figure out how to apply a simple ND Filter effect to an overexposed sky. Thanks! can you post your photo so we can see what you are working with? M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staff James Ritson Posted October 16, 2016 Staff Share Posted October 16, 2016 Hi, I realise this doesn't immediately solve the issue but I'll add a video to my planning list that covers several ways of achieving this effect. Whilst the other videos cover masking and working with gradients I haven't done any that explicitly cover an "ND" type effect. Will hopefully have time this week to plan and record it! Quote Product Expert (Affinity Photo) & Product Expert Team Leader @JamesR_Affinity for tutorial sneak peeks and more Official Affinity Photo tutorials Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pipkato Posted October 16, 2016 Author Share Posted October 16, 2016 Thanks again MJSfoto1956, but I'd rather not post the photo. It belongs to a friend and I don't want to get involved in permissions etc. But, as I said, it was originally quite underexposed on the foreground. It was taken with an iPhone 6 against a morning sunrise. I managed to adjust the foreground so that it looks quite decent, but in the process lost most of the information in the sky. As I mentioned in my earlier post, I did manage to bring them a lot closer together in Affinity but could not get the gradient working properly. Following the PSE 9 tutorial worked immediately and I could control the sky. So I have more or less solved my problem, but not how to achieve the ND effect in Affinity. I've searched online video tutorials for some help with this but it seems no one has dealt with it in Affinity Photo. I'm surprised at that since I would have thought enhancing or controlling the sky would be a fairly common problem. I hope Affinity address it soon in their tutorials section. But I'm sure they're inundated with requests for tutorials, and they have done a terrific job with what they've provided so far. Thanks again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pipkato Posted October 16, 2016 Author Share Posted October 16, 2016 Thanks very much James! That would be fantastic. I'm an old school darkroom photographer and spent a lot of time 'burning in' skies. So I'd love to be able to manage it easily in Affinity Photo. Looking forward to the tutorial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smadell Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 pipkato... Here are a series of screenshots that demonstrate what I did (and what I think you're trying to do, also). I know I can't compete with James' videos, but this may tide you over. MJSfoto1956 1 Quote Affinity Photo 2, Affinity Publisher 2, Affinity Designer 2 (latest retail versions) - desktop & iPad Culling - FastRawViewer; Raw Developer - Capture One Pro; Asset Management - Photo Supreme Mac Studio with M2 Max (2023}; 64 GB RAM; macOS 13 (Ventura); Mac Studio Display - iPad Air 4th Gen; iPadOS 17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfred Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 (Sorry, tried to include the link to the YouTube PSE 9 tutorial, but the Affinity Forum blanks it out) I could see the link to that YouTube video when I clicked to quote your post. It's here: www.youtube.com/watch?v=gajisf_mXB0 Quote Alfred Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 2 for Windows • Windows 10 Home/Pro Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 2 for iPad • iPadOS 17.4.1 (iPad 7th gen) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJSfoto1956 Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 so here are a series of screen shots showing how I approached "fixing" a typical over-exposed JPEG sky for what I feel is a "natural" look. You will note that I used nothing more than a series of levels layers and a curves layer each with a blended mask. You will also notice the banding in the sky which is typical for JPEGs. Basically, JPEGs are less than optimal for doing extreme post processing regardless of technique used (although I could easily "fix" the banding in this sky if I wanted). OTOH extreme post processing of RAWs or 16-bit TIFFs generally delivers exceptional results. Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staff James Ritson Posted October 17, 2016 Staff Share Posted October 17, 2016 Hello, Just to let you know I recorded the video this morning and it's now live on Vimeo here: Graduated ND Filter Effect Hope that proves to be helpful for you! Thanks, James superhaschi 1 Quote Product Expert (Affinity Photo) & Product Expert Team Leader @JamesR_Affinity for tutorial sneak peeks and more Official Affinity Photo tutorials Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfred Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 The notion of a tinted "neutral density" filter sounds a little oxymoronic to me, James! Nice tutorial, nonetheless. :) Quote Alfred Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 2 for Windows • Windows 10 Home/Pro Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 2 for iPad • iPadOS 17.4.1 (iPad 7th gen) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staff James Ritson Posted October 17, 2016 Staff Share Posted October 17, 2016 The notion of a tinted "neutral density" filter sounds a little oxymoronic to me, James! Nice tutorial, nonetheless. :) Yeah... oops! I was trying to refer to graduated tint filters where you can tint the sky/foreground to be warmer or cooler, but unfortunately that didn't translate from brain to mouth. Those kinds of filters do provide a small degree of light reduction, perhaps that's why I made the link so readily. Kind of highlights the occasional pitfalls of (mostly) improvised videos... Quote Product Expert (Affinity Photo) & Product Expert Team Leader @JamesR_Affinity for tutorial sneak peeks and more Official Affinity Photo tutorials Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pipkato Posted October 17, 2016 Author Share Posted October 17, 2016 Hello James, The effect in your tutorial (big thanks by the way) is just like 'graduated neutral density filters'. When I was shooting film I would always have standard ND filters without any graduation , and some graduated ND filters for dealing with skies. In fact a common one, a resin type made by Cokin, was called a 'Tobacco' filter, if I remember correctly. It was graduated from the Tobacco end to clear and usually used in the reverse of your warm tint effect. It gave the sky a nice warm sunset type look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pipkato Posted October 17, 2016 Author Share Posted October 17, 2016 Thanks again smadell and Michael for taking the trouble to create those screen shots. Very useful and an adjunct to James' excellent new tutorial. Thanks too to Alfred for discovering that my YouTube link is still buried somewhere in my earlier post. BTW Alfred 'Neutral Density' in it's original photographic use is not such an oxymoron - It's 'Neutral' in that it does not affect the colours in the scene, and 'Density' in its ability to reduce the amount of light entering the lens. But there were variations, as I mentioned, in my response to James above. Some of the graduated filters were also ND but many were tinted for special effects. Regards, Roy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfred Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 BTW Alfred 'Neutral Density' in it's original photographic use is not such an oxymoron - It's 'Neutral' in that it does not affect the colours in the scene, and 'Density' in its ability to reduce the amount of light entering the lens. Thanks, Roy, but I think you may have misread my post. I wasn't saying that 'Neutral Density' sounded like an oxymoron: what I was questioning was the notion of a tinted ND filter. :) Quote Alfred Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 2 for Windows • Windows 10 Home/Pro Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 2 for iPad • iPadOS 17.4.1 (iPad 7th gen) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pipkato Posted October 17, 2016 Author Share Posted October 17, 2016 My apologies, Alfred. You're absolutely right ... in my rush to keyboard I did misread your post. And in all the years I've been looking at those filters and using them it never occurred to me. Regards, Roy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfred Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 No problem, Roy. I wouldn't like to try to keep count of the number of times I've misread forum posts! Quote Alfred Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 2 for Windows • Windows 10 Home/Pro Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 2 for iPad • iPadOS 17.4.1 (iPad 7th gen) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moscool Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 Thanks for the excellent Vimeo tutorial on this! Now a follow-on question: I wanted to modify the gradient on the layer once it had been committed and I can't retrieve it. It's as if the pixels have been committed 'for ever'. Of course I can always delete the layer and create a new one but I had done this based on a complex selection which had not been saved... So two questions in effect: 1) Is there a way to retrieve your local modifications like in Lightroom? 2) Do I need to set history to save upon closing and what is the impact on file size? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staff MEB Posted November 16, 2016 Staff Share Posted November 16, 2016 Hi Moscool, 1. Instead of a Pixel layer you can use a Fill layer (menu Layer ▸ New Fill Layer), so you can keep the gradient editable. 2. That's up to you. If you want to keep the history of the changes with the file check/tick the menu File ▸ Save History With Document, however this may increase the file size considerably depending on how you work. Check this reply from Ben (point 2) for more details. Quote A Guide to Learning Affinity Software | Affinity Quick Reference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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