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I really don't understand why so many people seem to dislike Adobe and refuse to accept the CC subscription model.  Personally, I think its incredible value for money and far cheaper than buying and junking other far less capable applications.  Yes, a viable alternative would be nice, but it hasn't happened yet.

 

My thought on this:

 

  • With Adobe you have to pay them constantly and if you don't then you can't use their product. With some alternatives, in this case, Affinity, you pay once and you might be fine for the rest of your life. Otherwise, you decide when it's the moment to update.
  • With the rental model, Adobe promised their customers they would be able to yield new features and, overall, make their suite more solid than ever. This has not been the case. Every new release has been worst in terms of bugs. It seems the newest release might be better, but they lost my trust, I'm not holding my breath or updating anything.

For instance, among the latest new features, there's Adobe Stock even presented in an official video (and this should tell how much importance they gave it to the Stock).

Are we serious? How can that be an exciting new feature for professionals?

If someone needs a picture can open the browser and do a simple search.

 

From a huge corporation like Adobe, I would expect a little more, but they got rid of some of the biggest competitors in the past, so obviously why they should improve now?

Personally? No, thanks.


Andrew
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Win10 x64 AMD Threadripper 1950x, 64GB, 512GB M.2 PCIe NVMe SSD + 2TB, dual GTX 1080ti
Dual Monitor Dell Ultra HD 4k P2715Q 27-Inch

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I really don't understand why so many people seem to dislike Adobe and refuse to accept the CC subscription model.  Personally, I think its incredible value for money and far cheaper than buying and junking other far less capable applications.  Yes, a viable alternative would be nice, but it hasn't happened yet.

 

To put it simply, Adobe forces our hand into a lifetime subscription model. In the old traditional model, most users used to skip a version or two because the new features usually did not justify upgrading just for one release. With a subscription model, you do pay as if you would upgrade anytime a new version is released…  in other word, there is no more skipping anymore. you pay all the time.

 

In a traditional model, each release needs to have enough new features to entice clients to upgrade. In a subscription model, innovation is not needed, you just need to keep up… or give the illusion that you do.

 

We're still using the full CS6 graphic at the office and once in a while, I look at what's new in CC, to see what I'm missing out and frankly it's not that much of an upgrade : Although CS6 is ancient, Adobe had not improved their software all that much in all those years. So if CC was a stand alone we would probably not upgrade anyway. There just isn't enough new stuff that's actually a time saver. Maybe in hope to have less buggy software, but according to the comment above, that is not the case. I might right, or not, regarding the above, but the point that with a subscription model the choice of upgrading, or not, has been striped from the client. You keep paying no matter what.

 

At any rate, Adobe software is built on a 20 years old + technology and is trapped in an old Software architecture with no real reason to start recoding from the bottom up; why would day, clients are now stuck with them no matter what. Well... unless there is a viable alternative. 

 

So I'm closely following up what's new with Affinity and hope that it is that complete viable alternative many are waiting for. A proper DAM would be another piece of that puzzle as I would prefer to stick with a suite of software design to work as one instead of peaces from everywhere.

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I really don't understand why so many people seem to dislike Adobe and refuse to accept the CC subscription model.  Personally, I think its incredible value for money and far cheaper than buying and junking other far less capable applications.  Yes, a viable alternative would be nice, but it hasn't happened yet.

 

You are entitled to your opinion... I walked away from Adobe due to the subscription model and will never look back. I still use Lightroom because I have not been forced out yet. It would be great if the Affinity alternative was out before that happened.

 

I've used and loved Photoshop for 20 years. At this point, I consider Affinity Photo a fundamentally better application. I don't even have PS installed anymore. I prefer Designer to Illustrator as well. 

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Well yes, it is my personal opinion, but I'm here hoping Affinity will eventually come up with a viable alternative to CC.  Many others are here because they haven't found a way of pirating CC.  In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if a handful have pirated the Affinity products.

 

Adobe is, and always has been, an arrogant giant, but so is Microsoft and Apple.  In fact, one could also accuse Affinity of the same arrogance when it comes to disclosing any kind of advance information for their promised DAM - a product that was originally promised for 2016.

 

Affinity is just like all the other alternatives, in that it's focused on RAW processing and vector graphics with no way to manage the assets. .  Adobe suffers for the same reason, although they do have Bridge and Lightroom - both lacking in sophistication.  Its unfortunate that the vast majority of photographers and designers haven't a clue how useful an asset management system can be.  Adobe and Affinity know this, so profit before innovation, right?

 

I'm here watching and waiting, but meanwhile happy to pay Adobe's monthly subscription for something I need to work today.

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Hey guys, you missread what I have written:

 

1) I do not and will not subscribe anything. Never CC for me.

 

2) There is a lightroom version called Lightroom 6, not Lightroom CC. It is updated all the time with current version being 6.8. It is 95% identical with the CC version. You pay one time 115€ on amazon for example and can use it 10 years without updating. OK maybe the support will drop after 2-3 years, so no lens profiles will be added by adobe, but there are other sources for them. You will also get no new features. But hey, the features that are currently there are enough for me. And if new features will be added to say LR7, I will think about whether it is necessary for me to buy this update which costs 80€, or whether these features are irrelevant for my workflow. The cool thing is that an update to LR6 costs 80€ independently of whether you update from LR1 or LR5. So if they do not change this policy, I could skip the update to LR7 and update to lets say LR8 or LR9 saving costs for irrelevant updates. If adobe will not release LR7, I will stay with LR6 forever or switch to somewhere else. But there must be a really good reason to switch, because LR6 has everything I need.

 

There is no standalone, non CC photoshop in the price tag of the LR6, so this is why a hope that Serif will improve Affinity Photo, so that I can import my LR preprocessed RAWS fast with correct histograms to give them a final touch or to apply some effects before they are exported.

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Hey guys, you missread what I have written:

 

1) I do not and will not subscribe anything. Never CC for me.

 

2) There is a lightroom version called Lightroom 6, not Lightroom CC. It is updated all the time with current version being 6.8. It is 95% identical with the CC version. You pay one time 115€ on amazon for example and can use it 10 years without updating. OK maybe the support will drop after 2-3 years, so no lens profiles will be added by adobe, but there are other sources for them. You will also get no new features. But hey, the features that are currently there are enough for me. And if new features will be added to say LR7, I will think about whether it is necessary for me to buy this update which costs 80€, or whether these features are irrelevant for my workflow. The cool thing is that an update to LR6 costs 80€ independently of whether you update from LR1 or LR5. So if they do not change this policy, I could skip the update to LR7 and update to lets say LR8 or LR9 saving costs for irrelevant updates. If adobe will not release LR7, I will stay with LR6 forever or switch to somewhere else.

 

There is no standalone, non CC photoshop in the price tag of the LR6, so this is why a hope that Serif will improve Affinity Photo, so that I can import my LR preprocessed RAWS fast with correct histograms to give them a final touch or to apply some effects before they are exported.

 

1) you already subscribe to an Internet Service Provider, your electricity, water, gas, and possible other rental services too.   So never say never.

 

2) long before your 10 year plan ends, you will have replaced your computer and it will have a completely new and completely incompatible operating system.

 

So I wish you the best of luck.

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Are we beginning to nitpick here?  

 

And for what it's worth, I'm currently using a 2007 iMac, one OS back with El Capitan, that still handles everything I need to do...plus with Snow Leopard on a partition, it runs legacy programs that the current OS has left behind.  I will have to replace it eventually but not until Affinity stops supporting El Capitan.

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1) you already subscribe to an Internet Service Provider, your electricity, water, gas, and possible other rental services too.   So never say never.

 

2) long before your 10 year plan ends, you will have replaced your computer and it will have a completely new and completely incompatible operating system.

 

So I wish you the best of luck.

 

1) This is not comparable. There is really no need to rent software if there are options. You have no option to cancel your electicity subscription. I have MS Office 2013, and will never rent MS Office 365 for sure. I would rather switch to libreoffice before I start to rent software. The same is now true for Lightroom.

 

2) My current computer is now 7 years old, everything is OK. It went all the way from windows 7 to 10 without compatibility issues. And to cite microsoft, windows 10 is the last windows :-)  And yes a separate partition for legacy software is always an option.

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Well yes, it is my personal opinion, but I'm here hoping Affinity will eventually come up with a viable alternative to CC.  Many others are here because they haven't found a way of pirating CC.  In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if a handful have pirated the Affinity products.

 

Adobe is, and always has been, an arrogant giant, but so is Microsoft and Apple.  In fact, one could also accuse Affinity of the same arrogance when it comes to disclosing any kind of advance information for their promised DAM - a product that was originally promised for 2016.

 

Affinity is just like all the other alternatives, in that it's focused on RAW processing and vector graphics with no way to manage the assets. .  Adobe suffers for the same reason, although they do have Bridge and Lightroom - both lacking in sophistication.  Its unfortunate that the vast majority of photographers and designers haven't a clue how useful an asset management system can be.  Adobe and Affinity know this, so profit before innovation, right?

 

I'm here watching and waiting, but meanwhile happy to pay Adobe's monthly subscription for something I need to work today.

 

So, you are comparing Adobe, with more than 20 years of development, a corporation with about 15,000 employees, to Affinity.

I can't follow this logic.

About the DAM and other requests at some point I believe some moderator said that they realized that their expectations were exceeding the reality in terms of what is possible to achieve in a given time. That is why now they don't come out with a precise schedule in order to avoid any unrealistic prospect of what is to come.

 

About the giants. Despite both Microsoft and Apple are two arrogant giants as well, the main difference is that at least they can have some competition to some degree. Adobe doesn't have that threat. There is no other PS, AI, AE on the market to compete with them. So, again, this logic is not working for me.

 

As for the needs to work with something today vs waiting for a mature software: of course, it is totally up to you. The reason why your statement sounds kind of off is because we all to some degree need to work with these applications today. The exciting thing, though, is being part of  something from the very beginning that can potentially be a real alternative (and, in many aspects, already is). We are providing feedback and suggesting features. Obviously not all them will end up in the final product, but some will. I am already using Designer in production, but I understand we all have different tasks and needs and what might work for me today perhaps doesn't for you. But for 50 bucks or less, I personally can't find much to complain at the moment, all the opposite considered what I can already do with AP and AD.


Andrew
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Win10 x64 AMD Threadripper 1950x, 64GB, 512GB M.2 PCIe NVMe SSD + 2TB, dual GTX 1080ti
Dual Monitor Dell Ultra HD 4k P2715Q 27-Inch

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I really hope that Serif resolves just this one use case:

 

1) Open 25MB raw directly from lightroom in max 5 seconds with all LR development adjustments applied showing histogramms the same before and after develop persona is left.

2) Develop in affinity without further changes in develop persona, because all lens corrections and adjustments have already be done in LR. Or optionally just skip develop persona.

3) Apply effects, heal spots, etc

4) Store Affinity photo file near the imported raw file

5) Export TIFF, JPEG, whatever to LR

 

Does affinity persist the Undo/Redo stack? If so, it would be great, if the base RAW would be referenced as link, and the Redo stack could be reapplied on second cycle. This way the base RAW could further be changed in LR and affinity steps reapplied as last step.

 

The last evolution step would be if an affinity photo file would persist the modification date or hash of the referenced base RAW, to detect whether the RAW has changed since last time. Then there could be a batch processing function in Affnity which operates on a folder root, which scans all folders below for affinity files and reapplies the Redo stacks + exports for all RAWS which have changed. This way we would have a single click post processing build on the complete catalog. This would be a killer feature. But the "problem" here is that the RAWs never change, only the instruction sets in LR :-/ So if a partial build is not possible a rebuild all on a subfolder would be nice.

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Hello

 

I used Aperture for a long time. A very good dam system. Included with sound recording which is very comfortable when you have a camera with this option. Especially for press photography. Lightroom has also this option. Now I have to switch to another editing application why aperture does not have perspective control and Apple has stopped with this app. So I bought affinity photo. A very good alternative for photoshop. But when you shoot a lot of  pictures and have to develop them, I miss digital asset managing  in which I can do the most basic development included with IPTC options. So I would be very glad when a DAM version would be developed.

I read that this is coming soon. I am waiting.

 

Gerrit

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Well, as a current Apple Aperture user I'm eagerly awaiting any news of an Affinity DAM product release. I do feel they time is running out for Aperture which, fingers crossed, is still working for me, but for how much longer is anyone's guess....

 

I don't like the way Adobe screws every penny it can from it's customers, using it's position as a monopoly and the only real game in town (for now!) and find both Photoshop and Lightroom not for me.

 

As soon as Affinity DAM software is released I'm jumping and will happily try Affinity Photo as well. Come on Serif, I'm waiting and willing to part with my hard earned cash! ;-)

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Today I'm using 3...4 different RAW developers - but as a DAM, only Aperture does what I want and need. And I appreciate the libraries which are holding the files together and not an "open file system, because only I know how files should be named and organised" - that's what i read a lot of Media Pro/C1 and LR users. I simply don't care... My preferences are different and I don't find my pictures by 15 digit filenames...

 

In the best of my illusions there would be one DAM with a very good RAW converter, able to deal with Sigma Foveon files, Fuji compressed RAW of X-T2 and possibly also Fuji GFX files which will be not supported by Capture One. For Sigma, there's a Mac version of their "PhotoPro" (cr)app, which runs less than half speed on a Mac due to only 32 bit contrary to Windows 64 bit version. I don't want to be limited by software in using the cameras I like to use for various reasons.

 

I skip Capture One 10 because those lazy folks are not able to perform Fuji compressed RAW support for nearly one year and bring lame excuses. Fuji lens support?  :lol: But their HDR department as well as perspective correction are the reasons I use it for Nikon, Canon and Fuji files.

 

I dream of non-destructive editing of RAWs, be it focus-stacking or panorama. I also dream of the elegance of the file handling like faces and places and the still state of the art intelligent albums - some things which capture One programmers obviously fail to understand. Okay, since last version 10 one can already search for landscape/portrait orientation, whooppee  <_< Dunno for how many years that's standard in Aperture...

 

I don't want to be in the situation a manufacturer of rented software can blackmail me - pay, otherwise you can't edit your files anymore,stupid client - or forces me to upgrade not only the versions but at some point as well the hardware or OS. Had that already experienced with Aperture, when the latest version was not running on Snowleopard or the CameraRAWUpdates just stayed away.

 

I tried standalone media-browsers, it's just another app and still falls short. Media Pro? Totally overpriced in regard of the painful to look at UI.

 

I was hoping, Serif would overtake Aperture as it is and give it a good brush-up. But now, like on other places, promises, promises...  :mellow:

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I desperately want a digital asset manager, but respect the position of Serif. But in the meantime, is there any advice that can be offered on how to cope with the problem? Until now, I have found that Elements Organiser does what I need, but it will not accept .afphoto files. I am beginning to get into a mess! Sadly the Serif Photo Organiser (associated with photoplus) does not hack it.

 

(I am not interested in spending buckets of money on a temporary solution)

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So things just got a whole lot more interesting for Aperture users.

 

Aperture's lead engineer has just launched a RAW processor, which is very very cool for a v1 product.  It is based closely around Aperture's tool set and it isn't DAM (yet) but a shy hint that a DAM would be a 'cool thing' suggests he may have that in mind for the future.  The RAW processor is either an extension for Apple's Photos app, or runs standalone.  Launch price promotion of just $10.  Seems like it's worth it just to encourage him to keep going.  The RAW processing looks really excellent, as we might expect from someone of this calibre.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSpHIT0ok_Q

 

http://gentlemencoders.com


Grumpy, but faithful (watch out all you cats)

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So things just got a whole lot more interesting for Aperture users.

 

Aperture's lead engineer has just launched a RAW processor, which is very very cool for a v1 product.  It is based closely around Aperture's tool set and it isn't DAM (yet) but a shy hint that a DAM would be a 'cool thing' suggests he may have that in mind for the future.  The RAW processor is either an extension for Apple's Photos app, or runs standalone.  Launch price promotion of just $10.  Seems like it's worth it just to encourage him to keep going.  The RAW processing looks really excellent, as we might expect from someone of this calibre.

 

 

http://gentlemencoders.com

Well the first sentence sounds great but the feature set does not look promising yet, I don´t know Aperture but I guess it was quite another kind of feature set that was available back then.

Obviously only time will tell...

Maybe serif should just send him a tweet as well

https://mobile.twitter.com/mattp4478/status/753502120863789056


 

 

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I think you're missing the point.

Well I´m actually serious

He seems like a nice guy just like the affinity coders

His twitter handle is @gentcoders

 

Cheers


 

 

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No, that's not what I meant.

 

The guy's top level ... Senior Engineer for Aperture.  Does it get better?  He's left Apple and decided to carry on with that work.  Aperture is an absolutely superb piece of software in the view of many people, myself included.  I tried Lr three times since it was launched, but always found it lacking by comparison, particularly as a DAM, as have many others, notably lots on here.  Also the UI, Aperture is superb and Lr is ... well uggghh.  Adobe have never ever made the slightest effort in UI.  So what's interesting for us photographers, is that this guy is working away to produce a solution.  First step, a really very nice looking raw convertor, with some excellent features.  v1.5 will doubtless add missing features.  v2? from his comment ... maybe a DAM and that would be excellent, because as Aperture's Senior Engineer, he's likely to produce a pretty damned good DAM. :)


Grumpy, but faithful (watch out all you cats)

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I agree with others about DAM. I'd like to get away from Adobe CC, but I like the way it handles my images. However, I'm not necessarily concerned about DAM being incorporated into AP. I would be content with a standalone manager that integrates with AP.

 

Is that a possibility?

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I agree with others about DAM. I'd like to get away from Adobe CC, but I like the way it handles my images. However, I'm not necessarily concerned about DAM being incorporated into AP. I would be content with a standalone manager that integrates with AP.

 

Is that a possibility?

https://forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php?/topic/5336-file-system/?p=34539

 

"We'll hand it to the Giraffe team... they can almost reach that fruit.    ;)"

-Ben

 

maybe someday  :D  :ph34r:  :wub:

 

cheers


 

 

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Surface studio has. 30 bit, DCI-P3 display, as do the iPad pros (not 30 bit).

 

Tablets are very exciting and useful for pro use if they have an accurate input device. Both iPad Pros and Surface

Tablets do offer accurate pencil/stylus input as well as keyboards.

 

Stylus input is IMHO very useful for Photo retouching and obviously original content creation sketching etc. With great snapping options as Designer has it will also be an exciting platform for graphic design.

 

Desktop pro apps will continue to exist but they will have to co-exist with pro tablet apps.

 

 

Hi Ronny, you are obviously talking from the viewpoint of a graphic designer, not as a photographer/videographer that has to grapple with thousands of RAW files/terabytes of video on a daily basis. The iPad is pretty much dead in the water however much Apple adds a "Pro" to the name, simply because they have crippled it with regards to input/output options. There's simply no way to get the required data in and out fast enough through wifi or lightning connector, not to mention limited internal storage, to make it a usable tool for pro's like myself.

 

Not to mention the fact that by opting for a separate OS there's simply no professional software available (yet, and I doubt any is about to surface that will be considered "pro" by professionals like myself anytime soon, Affinity's iPad app included).

 

Microsoft's newest Surface offerings look real good in comparison to anything Apple's been able to come up with lately except for the fact that I'm so heavily invested in the Mac platform that the switch is going to really hurt me in terms of software licences should I decide to switch.

 

But in hardcore video circles Apple is now pretty much extinct, and I fully understand why, as Apple have pretty much ignored that user base (which once upon a time was the most die-hard fanbase) after Tim Cook became CEO of Apple. I'm pretty sure a lot of stills photographers will follow suit very soon unless Apple shows renewed commitment to their professional user base by updating the Mac Pro, give the MacBook Pro line a real boost in performance etc.

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Hi Ronny, you are obviously talking from the viewpoint of a graphic designer, not as a photographer/videographer that has to grapple with thousands of RAW files/terabytes of video on a daily basis. The iPad is pretty much dead in the water however much Apple adds a "Pro" to the name, simply because they have crippled it with regards to input/output options. There's simply no way to get the required data in and out fast enough through wifi or lightning connector, not to mention limited internal storage, to make it a usable tool for pro's like myself.

 

 

You don't necessarily have to get the data in and out.  I work with a > 20 year old software which can apply its edits to any file. Any file.  So for example, you could work on a tiny jpeg on the iPad and syncing via cloud, have those same edits applied to a full sized file somewhere else.  I'm sure that AFP will have something along those lines.  They have also talked of feature parity with the desktop version.

 

As to whether or not Apple can be trusted for pros going forward, sadly I have to agree with you.  As an Aperture user, I very much doubt that I would *ever* trust Apple for pro application use again.  The cavalier way that one of the most wealthy companies in the world 'dumped' us, was unbelievable.

 

The downside of the Surface, is Windows.  Nothing they currently say can make that any better.


Grumpy, but faithful (watch out all you cats)

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...

 

But in hardcore video circles Apple is now pretty much extinct, and I fully understand why, as Apple have pretty much ignored that user base (which once upon a time was the most die-hard fanbase) after Tim Cook became CEO of Apple. I'm pretty sure a lot of stills photographers will follow suit very soon unless Apple shows renewed commitment to their professional user base by updating the Mac Pro, give the MacBook Pro line a real boost in performance etc.

 

 

...

As to whether or not Apple can be trusted for pros going forward, sadly I have to agree with you.  As an Aperture user, I very much doubt that I would *ever* trust Apple for pro application use again.  The cavalier way that one of the most wealthy companies in the world 'dumped' us, was unbelievable.

 

The downside of the Surface, is Windows.  Nothing they currently say can make that any better.

 

Well wasn't it always like this also before, also with hardware and not just software? - I remember for example the good old black hardware (NeXT) times here, we all had sadly invested a bunch of money into Cubes and Stations and software (which all was pretty expensive those days) and then suddenly had been dumped by Mr. Jobs (BTW...we called that "to be Steve'd" those days). Apple later in the past also dumped hardware like the Newton and it's OS etc., even it offered very good handwriting recognizon and a nice Dylan based object-oriented programming paradigma for enhancements and app development.

 

However, related to the last years and Apple hardware, honestly the only real Pro computer from Apple was IMO that older Mac Pro Desktop Tower model, which was service friendly and easy to customize/enhance due to it's overall good Tower PC like architecture. Every thing else here instead was just more or less just something design wise consumer oriented, designed from the beginnings with restricted hardware component enhancement capabilities, so to say mostly solid soldered or just glued together components.

 

So all in all that's nothing new in their behaviour and nowadays they (Apple) have this tendency to concentrate more on these general consumer oriented products (be it hardware or software) than things for the professional business market. As far as they do most of their money and exchange value with iPhones and iPads etc. they tend to do the same with their software in that consumer oriented unifying process.


☛ Affinity Designer 1.7.1 ◆ Affinity Photo 1.7.1 ◆ OSX El Capitan

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Well wasn't it always like this also before, also with hardware and not just software? - I remember for example the good old black hardware (NeXT) times here, we all had sadly invested a bunch of money into Cubes and Stations and software (which all was pretty expensive those days) and then suddenly had been dumped by Mr. Jobs (BTW...we called that "to be Steve'd" those days). Apple later in the past also dumped hardware like the Newton and it's OS etc., even it offered very good handwriting recognizon and a nice Dylan based object-oriented programming paradigma for enhancements and app development.

 

However, related to the last years and Apple hardware, honestly the only real Pro computer from Apple was IMO that older Mac Pro Desktop Tower model, which was service friendly and easy to customize/enhance due to it's overall good Tower PC like architecture. Every thing else here instead was just more or less just something design wise consumer oriented, designed from the beginnings with restricted hardware component enhancement capabilities, so to say mostly solid soldered or just glued together components.

 

So all in all that's nothing new in their behaviour and nowadays they (Apple) have this tendency to concentrate more on these general consumer oriented products (be it hardware or software) than things for the professional business market. As far as they do most of their money and exchange value with iPhones and iPads etc. they tend to do the same with their software in that consumer oriented unifying process.

TLDR version: nothing about DAM, just bashing 

 

cheers  :)


 

 

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